Do you want to get very sad and then get very angry?

[Brian_Expat]

Go here.

Watch the trailer.

Try not to kick your computer.

http://www.thegiftdocumentary.org

[queerart]

1. You Know.......

This is what comes of knowing very little about the "Gift"....

As even tho they are HIV+ there is what? A - J strains?

So now they are infected, and can "bareback"????????

NOT!

Here is more info on strains

And it's my understanding that they can be double infected...

Why in the name of all things decent, would someone who in HIV+ knowingly infect others?

I think these fellows hate themselves, and are committing suicide slowly... as they don't have the balls to just use a gun!

[xchrom]

2. humans are complicated -- and ''don't do that''

isn't an answer --
what we do know is that when it comes to drugs, sex, alcohol, or any number of things we indentify as ''vices'', people lie.
for all kinds of reasons.
hiv got off on the wrong foot -- people were/are stigmatized and there's always a peculiar reaction in people to that.
people will often fetishize the strangest things -- sometimes the very thing that will kill them.
the thing to remember is that people are fallible.
and often don't live up to expectations -- these folk don't represent everybody -- and this is only one side of their story.

[queerart]

3. I Can Not Argue With Your Very Good Points My Friend.......

But in the end... we as a society would not, (and should not) allow someone just to jump off a building because they feel like doing it at this point in their life.......

Nor indirectly encourage a game of Russian Roulette between friends by not "stating the obvious" that the behavior is wrong......

Or allow others make "snuff films" just because there is a market for the product........

We (Gays) need to stand up and say: "WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE", what is happening to our Gay Youth?

Not to mention that it all seems "Quite Polite"......

Ummm... "Would You Like The Gift"?... Yes, Please! "I'll Have One Order Over Here My Good Fellow, Thanks Indeed"!

I know why the folks that hate Queers are not saying anything about this "Gift Trend"... as they hope for faster seating at the "Olive Garden" with shorter lines....

But why in the Fuck are the Queers not screaming at the top of their lungs.....

"THAT THIS BEHAVIOR IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG"...........


"F - U - C - K - I - N - G............W - R - O - N - G"!:spank:

[xchrom]

4. because it doesn't matter i we scream or anybody screams

screaming doesn't get the job done.
education has remained the absolute best weapon in battling aids in every generation.
BUT there has to be energy for renewing that fight.
unless and until humans stop fucking -- barebacking will always be around.
one has to commit one's self to a long fight --sometimes with disappointing results -- because we are human.

[queerart]

5. Again My Friend...... Great Points.......

What I should have said... and didn't....

My Point Is "Peer Pressure".......

If "Peer Pressure" Can Get People To Do Things That They Shouldn't......

Then "Peer Pressure" Could, and Should Be Used To Try To Stop This Bizarre Behavior......

Will It Stop Everyone? Of Course Not....

Might It Save A Few Lives?... I Bet It Might, And It Wouldn't Hurt To Try!....

But To Not Try "Something"... Is Not The Answer Either....

And Frankly, I don't really see many "Gay Elders" standing firm on this issue, and saying it's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!.....

This Behavior Is Not Acceptable, Cut and Dry!.......

[xchrom]

6. i know people who have sero-converted

they are dear friends -- and some of whom have died as a consequense.
they converted on purpose -- and there is no real understanding of it.
but, people do it.
you'll see by responses, that i didn't suggest doing nothing.
but i do suggest that a strident, moralistic approach isn't/hasn't worked.
there is no vast movement to sero--convert -- there are individuals, who for a variety of psychological reasons do.
and as i stated earlier, education is and remains the best response.
but it takes re-energizing as we go along.

[queerart]

7. You Again Mention Education My Friend..............

I ask in all sincerity for your help to help educate me with a couple questions that I have on this bizarre topic of “Bug Chasing”…….



1.) You have mentioned education… do you mean explaining to folks that “Yes, John you really will die if you purposely infect yourself with HIV”? As it really seems to me more of a mental health issue, than an education matter. But in the end, what ever the cause…… I think people need to be shown that society will not be tolerant with this type of acting out, no matter what the reason. As even children with severe learning disabilities are able to be taught to understand what behaviors are acceptable in society, and which ones are not.



2.) You have also mentioned that you “personally” know others that have in fact had this behavior of “Bug Chasing”, correct? Are they from wealthy families, or have high paying employment? I ask as I am astounded that the last time someone mentioned the cost of meds to me for an HIV client… it was around $3,000.00 per month. (almost $100.00 per day)……. “Bug Chasing” does seem to be a Rich Man’s Folly…… As how else could one pay for treatment, housing, and all the other matters that would arise with such a rollercoaster of related issues?

[xchrom]

9. why are you approaching this in a straight line?

it doesn't go like that -- we're talking about people, not straight edges.

i keep mentioning educatio because it continues to be the choice weapon against aids -- and if ''bug-chasing''{that's not salacious and over-simplified much} is the mode of mental transmission of the moment then education must adapt and reach people accordingly. and education, if you knew anything about aids education deals a lot with psychology.
a community is made up of psychological energy after all.

so people who aren't wealthy can't be subject to the vagaries of having a life?
people who aren't rich HAVE to behave in certain ways so it fits their damn price tag?
what the hell are you talking about?
most can't/don't afford their own meds for hiv -- and that's not their fault.
if you've been involved with act-up and other aggressive aids activits you would know that the prices of these drugs are often over-inflated.
but other than that -- people make mistakes -- like getting pregnant when they don't want a baby, drive drunk, step out in front of a bus, etc. --
perfection in behavior doesn't exist in humans --

[queerart]

10. I See................

>>>if you knew anything about aids education deals a lot with psychology.<<<

That is why I asked you kindly to expalin... But I see this is my fault for not "grasping" the education issue......


>>>if you've been involved with act-up and other aggressive aids activits you would know that the prices of these drugs are often over-inflated<<<

And it's the fault of the drug compaines that "Bug Chasers" can not afford thier own meds... I see....


>>>but other than that -- people make mistakes -- like getting pregnant when they don't want a baby, drive drunk, step out in front of a bus, etc. --<<<


And lastly my friend..... I grasp that folks make mistakes, and "Bug Chasing" is NO SIMPLE MISTAKE! It takes "Gifters" at the very least an investment of time to find someone to infect them, so lets not play like it just happened out of the blue...... Or maybe I did not grasp what I saw in the video???.... THEY WERE INDEED SEARCHING TO BE INFECTED, CORRECT? I had a very good friend who tested HIV+ who at which point jumped off a cliff with stunned friends looking on in utter disbelief... so we ALL have had some kind of contact with the real world... even if it was not with Act Up... so lets get back to the topic here.... and that is "Bug Chasing" which there was no simple lapse in "safer sex". ...... and when we all make up excuses for this behavior, it will continue.... sure as the sun rises! We could not be further apart on the spectrum about "Bug Chasing"... and LETS BE VERY CLEAR MY FRIEND.. I am not talking about someone that was infected accidentally, weather it be sex, needles, or blood transfusion.... but in the end... someone that SEARCHED to find someone to infect them... and it does not change that the behavior is WRONG, AND THEY SHOULD BE TOLD SO!

I honestly do appreciate you answering my questions.

[xchrom]

14. we're not friends and i've answered none of your questions

you were never asking any.
you had your answers from the get go.

you seem to think that telling with enough force will make someone who is looking to sero-convert{the correct terminology} not do it.

exposure to the ''real-world'' doesn't automatically create a mind adept enough at dealing with it.

[queerart]

15. Alright, So We Are Not Friends..............

You can be as angry as you want, it won’t change the facts of the topic….. and you can try to parse words all you might like……..

We (you and I) have drawn a line in the sand, and we both know where the other stands on this topic…….

So I give you a pledge I won’t keep up the ping pong of this conversation…..

However I will say that the “Bug Chasers” are getting infected with HIV on purpose…….

<snip>With about 40,000 new infections in the United States per year, according to government reports, that would mean around 10,000 each year are attributable to that more liberal definition of bug chasing.</snip>

I know it, you know it, they know it, and the public will see it clearly……

This activity can be spun any way one wants to, but in the end the country at large will not tolerate this behavior indefinitely.

Plain, and Simple…….




I will add some information that I have found on this topic….

For some “in the know”, it will be old news….....

For others…. You may find it an interesting read………

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5939950?rnd=1105685261031&has-player=false


<snip>>>>Condoms and safe sex are openly ridiculed on bug-chasing Web sites, with many bug chasers rebelling against what they see as the dogma of safe-sex education; constantly thinking about a deadly disease takes all the fun out of sex, they say, and condoms suck. Carlos agrees and says getting HIV will make safe sex a moot point. "It's about freedom," he says. "What else can happen to us after this? You can fuck whoever you want, fuck as much as you want, and nothing worse can happen to you. Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV."</snip>>>>

<snip>>>Looking back on it, Hitzel says he was committing suicide by chasing HIV, killing himself slowly because he didn't have the nerve to do it quickly. Hitzel is ashamed and embarrassed that he actually sought HIV, but he's willing to tell his story because he hopes to dissuade others who are on the same path. He gets angry when he hears bug chasers talking in the same ways he talked a year earlier. The mention of "bug chasing" and "gift giving" sets him off.</snip>>>

<snip>>>'Bug chasing' sounds like a group of kindergartners running around chasing grasshoppers and butterflies," Hitzel says, "a beautiful thing. And gift giving? What the hell is that? I just wish the terms would actually put some real context into what's going on. Why did I not want to say that I was deliberately infecting myself? Because saying the word infect sounds bad and gross and germy. I wanted it to be sexualized." He's particularly angered by the idea of HIV being erotic: "How about you follow me after I start new medications and you watch me throw up for a few weeks? Tell me how erotic that is."</snip>>>

<snip>>>With about 40,000 new infections in the United States per year, according to government reports, that would mean around 10,000 each year are attributable to that more liberal definition of bug chasing. Doug Hitzel says he fits that description. Though he now says he was a bug chaser for six months, he explains that he would not have admitted it to anyone outside the subculture, and he sometimes even lied to himself about what he was doing. Even if you consider only the number of self-proclaimed bug chasers and not the overall group of men seeking HIV, Cabaj still sees cause for concern because of the way one bug chaser's quest can spread the virus far beyond his own life. "It may be a small number of actual people, but they may be disproportionately involved in continuing the spread of HIV," he says. "That's a major issue when you're talking about how to control the spread of a virus. A small percentage could be responsible for continuing the infection. The clinical impact is profound, no matter how small the numbers."</snip>>>

<snip>>>What frustrates health-care professionals the most, Forstein says, is that "gay men who are doing this haven't a clue what they're doing," he says. "They're incredibly selfish and self-absorbed. They don't have any idea what's going on with the epidemic in terms of the world or society or what impact their actions might have. The sense of being my brother's keeper is never discussed in the gay community because we've gone to the extreme of saying gay men with HIV can do no wrong. They're poor victims, and we can't ever criticize them."</snip>>>

http://mindprod.com/ggloss/bugchaser.html

http://www.thebody.com/sowadsky/barebacking.html#conversion

[mitchtv]

8. I have lost most of my friends

I am that generation that bore the brunt of the primary epidemic.There are not many left, like the generation of Hemophiliacs that were wiped out too. I am one elder Who says no. I have seen my friends come down with some pretty strange infections. It is so sad to see these young beautiful men throw their lives away.

[queerart]

11. I Am Glad To See My Friend......

That you are in the "NO" category as well on this topic!:pals:

[Meldread]

12. Sad, and disturbing.

I am reminded of a speech that Larry Kramer gave some months ago. You can view it here.

Here are some excerpts:

I recently learned about two dear friends, both exceptionally smart and talented and each in his own way a leader of our community. One, in his middle age, has sero-converted. The other, in his middle-age, has become hooked on crystal meth. Both of them are here with us tonight.

...

Just as it hard to get worked up about a middle-aged man with brains who sero-converts. You want to kill yourself. Go kill yourself. I’m sorry. It takes hard work to behave like an adult. It takes discipline. You want it to be simple. It isn’t simple. Yes it is. Grow up. Behave responsibly. Fight for your rights. Take care of yourself and each other. These are the answers. It takes courage to live. Are you living? Not so I can see it. Gay people are all but invisible to me now. I wish you weren’t. But you are. And I look real hard.

No one likes to be told to grow up. It’s insulting. But these are always the answers. They will always be the answers. The only answers. There will never be any other answers. Grow up. Behave responsibly. Fight for your rights. Take care of yourself and each other. Be proud of yourself. Be proud you are gay. I don’t know why so many find all this so complicated. But then I am 69 years old and have less patience for the many problems I had myself when young. It is one of the privileges of getting old.

...

I do not understand why some of you believe that because we have drugs that deal with the virus more or less effectively that it is worth the gamble to have unprotected sex. These drugs are not easy to take. There are many side effects. Not life but certainly comfort threatening. I must allow at least one day out of every week or two to feel really shitty, to have no sleep, to be constipated, to have diarrhea, to require blood tests and monitoring at hospitals or in doctors’ offices, and to have the shakes. The shakes, which come often, are not useful with a mouse or reading a newspaper or with a lover in your arms. And I don’t enjoy eating anymore. Keeping on weight is a constant problem. I have dry mouth. I get up six or seven times a night to pee. Many of the meds we are now taking are new meds and were approved quickly and side effects have a sneaky way of showing up after FDA approval, not before. I recently discovered that I was taking an FDA approved dose of Viread that has turned out to be five times the amount I actually need. We are all probably taking too much or too little of every single one of our drugs. Doctors don’t want to test for this; tests are not readily available. You have to do a lot of homework yourselves on these drugs. Is a fuck without a condom worth not being able to taste food? Obviously for too many of you it is.

My lover often sits on top of me to make me eat. The first time this happened I was in the hospital just after my liver transplant and I wouldn’t eat and Dr. Fung said I had to eat, or else I would die, and I just couldn’t eat (do you know how strange this is to someone who was always on a diet?). It was New Year’s Eve. We were in beautiful downtown Pittsburgh. David had brought a hamper filled with my favorite dishes. And I could not eat anything. Furiously he crawled into bed with me, boots and all, and started to cry. “We haven’t come this far for you to die because you won’t eat,” he screamed, tears streaming down his face. I will never forget that. I will never forget this man I love so much in bed with me with his snowy boots on starting slowly to spoon into me whatever he’d made and I trying so desperately hard to swallow it, looking at him, this man I love so much, doing this for me, both of us now bawling our eyes out and hugging each other in this strange bed in this strange town, wondering how we got here.

You simply have to read the rest. Check it out here.

[auntAgonist]

13. I just wanted to say thanks.

Wishing you and yours the best.


sincerely.

aA

[queerart]

16. Powerful!

Thanks For Sharing!

[xchrom]

17. well, unless there's going to be a quarentine

of all humans who want to fuck this is going to happen.
people have to find a positive and educated response to each of the situations that arise with this epidemic.
it's the only way.
you need something that adapts.