The Problem With Late Acceptance

[Zhade]

I'll be 32 in June. I have a great well-paying day job, two wonderful take-a-bullet-for-each-other close friends, a vibrant creative life - and I laugh a lot. Passion and love of life fills my heart, when once despair, anger and fear ruled it. In so many ways, my life has changed from a stunted, terrified falling-forward existence to a happy life.

But I feel incomplete. I feel alone. I feel - lost.

Lost because it took me 26 years to acknowledge that I like both boys and girls, and boys a bit more. Even writing this post I feel strange, like something was wrong with me that blocked me from seeing who I really was, how I was born this way and that it was okay.

It was a painful journey, preceded by a bad childhood and the damage I had to fix to get to where I am today. I understand that this was the reality that disabled my ability to accept myself. And once I finally grew up, I did accept myself... only to find myself practically alone.

I have no gay offline guy friends, and I live in Los Angeles!

My "gaydar" seems broken - I have problems telling if a guy is like me even when they're "flaming".

I have little sense of community, aside from my two best friends (a bisexual female couple I adore, mentioned above), and honestly feel lost on how to meet guys - not just to date (though I confess to a little loneliness on that angle; I've never dated guys, as much as I really want to) but to hang out with. I know people say "follow your interests", and I do, but even then I have no idea how to feel out someone with those interests to see if they're like me.

I think maybe the amount of time it took me to both work through my demons and accept myself left me at a disadvantage regarding meeting guys like me. Am I alone in that? Have others had similar situations as mine? What did you do? Did you think you sounded like you were whining too if you talked about it like I just have?

I'm not even sure I want to post this, but let's face it - I have no one I can talk to about this. Even my best friends can't quite relate, since they have each other and always did.

[msongs]

1. um, you could go places that have gay men in them? nt

[Zhade]

2. Of course! It's so simple, even a caveman...

I guess I should have made clearer my question about if anyone else experienced that feeling due to a late acceptance of their sexuality.

Still, you have a point. Unless it's a gay bar, because 1) I don't like the bar scene and 2) I'm not the sterotypical fit gay man.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted. It does seem kind of whiny.

[William769]

6. The first thing you need to learn is that there is no stereotypical gay man.

Once you have done that, things will look a lot more clearer to you.

[Zhade]

10. Sigh. Poorly phrased on my part.

See? I can't even TALK about this right.

[MADem]

12. Jeez, not to be Clintonesque, but ah feel yer pain, and I am not gay.

I get what you want help with, social networking, in essence, and I don't know how to help you. You say you don't like bars or the fitness scene, how about gay social groups of other types? Surely in LA their must be some--churches, choirs, and what have you? In Boston there's a gay paper (that sounds a bit odd, papers aren't gay in and of themselves, but a weekly paper that is geared towards gay interests) where you might find 'things to do' and perhaps you could pick something every week and just get out there and meet some people. Don't go to a movie and sit in the dark, go somewhere where you are forced to interact with people--a tour, a surfing lesson, a painting class, something quasi-educational and fun. If you are corrsponding with someone on line, a public venue like that is a good place to meet up and chat, sort of a neutral environment.

Honesty is the best policy, I reckon. If you feel a little goofy in a social situation, the best thing to do might be to admit you aren't a whiz at that sort of thing, but that folks will like you when they get to know you. I'm always predisposed to like people who come right out and say "I'm not the greatest at this or that, but my heart's in the right place." And if you're the odd one out, join that older, established couple as the third wheel, maybe they'll give you a lead on what to do and where to go...

I think that's the sort of help you want, the social interaction bit, eh? I hope someone here is equipped to give you a few pointers. Good luck to you...life is too short to be miserable. Get out there and enjoy yourself.

[Zhade]

14. Thank you - that's exactly what I needed to hear.

You nailed it.

[MADem]

15. OK, son, go get that paper and start planning your weekend!!!!

And don't give up if the first time or two is a bit "iffy"--ya gotta practice getting out there and having fun, as well as figuring out the sort of things you actually LIKE to do. Expect to feel a bit odd at the outset, especially if you haven't been out there socializing much. It's like riding a bike, sure, you can do it after many years away from it, but you might initially feel a bit clumsy--just realize that's gonna happen and roll with it, as it were!

Buona fortuna, meet some nice new people, and enjoy!

[Runcible Spoon]

3. I feel for ya.

I'm also bisexual and I'm stuck in Arkansas of all places. Just recently got my heart broken by macho guy asshole and was really in the mood to meet a woman, but I really can't get into the butch aesthetic and I can't seem to meet anyone either. The lesbian scene is nonexistent here and whatever scene there is seems to have limited tolerance for bisexual women, I've gotten some reactions that seem to indicate that they think I am just into women to get men's attention or because I'm looking for someone to heal some past abuse, and that I'm not serious about a sexual relationship. So to answer your question, what did I do? well I'm still figuring that out...sigh..

[Zhade]

4. Bisexuals seem to get it from both sides.

(That's not meant as a joke!)

I've actually had gay guys tell me "oh, you're just gay and won't admit it". Yeah. Helpful.

I really want to start dating guys, and feel like a kid asking for a date to the prom.

A GEEKY kid, at that (but I'm proud to be a geek).

[ncrainbowgrrl]

9. This is something that many people go through..

We're "trained" to be heterosexual. Those of us who don't really fit that mold may have gone through the teenage years- or at least I think that some of our younger brothers and sisters have it easier- with the advent of GSAs and a growing acceptance of gay teens... (feel free to flame away here... I kinda expect it!) some people come out in high school and bring their same sex date to the prom. Unfortunately, I didn't have that luxury. Although, had I realized that I wasn't straight during my high school years, I think it would have been okay.... but i went to a very very liberal private school- where we did have out teachers- but the kids were more closeted, weirdly enough.

The first time I asked a girl out, I felt like I was 13 again. It was all butterflies and tripping over words and feeling scared beyond belief. And oh my goodness- when I kissed her- out in the open- I almost died from fright. But it was something that I needed to do. And I felt like Liesl in the sound of music after Rolf kisses her and she lets out that giddy scream!

But before I met my current partner, I was a biphobic lesbian. And I'm ashamed of it. I'm not saying that I had a great reason for it, but, I did have an experience that did colour my experience- I got played by a bi-curious girl who went back to her b/f... and I made the awful generalization that she was typical of all bi chicks. I swore I'd never date a bisexual girl.

I'm now married to a man. I sure as all heck didn't plan that one. But, when I met him, I met someone who was my real soulmate... and isn't that what opening myself up to alternatives really was about?

You're right. Some straight people see bisexuals as either "carriers" or "not capable of maintaining a relationship with one gender..."- the "we want it all, and that they can't give it to us is something that I've heard from many a well meaning straight man."

Anyhow. I think I'm rambling. Did this make any sense? If not...feel free to disregard.

And go ask that guy out! Embrace your inner geek! :hi: We're here for you, and they say it gets easier with practice! So, go for it- your cheering section awaits you! :yourock:

cheers,
ncrg

[Zhade]

13. Thank you so much for your support!

It really means a lot. :)

Now, to find that guy...

[eridani]

5. Join a politically active gay/bi group

My dad always used to say "Nothing propinks like propinquity."

[Zhade]

7. He used to say what again?

Maybe it's my eyes, but I can't...understand...brain hurting...

[LittleOne]

18. Favorite use of the word propinquity

I, being born a woman and distressed
By all the needs and notions of my kind,
Am urged by your propinquity to find
Your person fair, and feel a certain zest
To bear your body's weight upon my breast:
So subtly is the fume of life designed,
To clarify the pulse and cloud the mind,
And leave me once again undone, possessed.
Think not for this, however, the poor treason
Of my stout blood against my staggering brain,
I shall remember you with love, or season
My scorn with pity, -- let me make it plain:
I find this frenzy insufficient reason
For conversation when we meet again.

Edna St. Vincent Millay

[illinoisprogressive]

8. You are still finding yourself and your place in a judgemental world

I believe they have a gay group here. Maybe you should check it out.
Also, americablog has some gay sites listed with the political ones.
I wish I could say I know how you feel but, know that you are accepted here for yourself and we support you.
If you need someone to talk to please contact me and I'll listen.
My son went thru something like this only he figured out he liked girls alittle more. We talked and I supported him totally. Regardless if he decided he was straight, gay or bi. As long as he was happy and felt good about himself and who he was.
It is a difficult journey but, you will settle down and find yourself and happiness and acceptance and love.

[3Ons]

11. Interesting comment

That was an interesting comment: "still trying to find your place in a judgmental world."

It makes me wonder if we then ISOLATE by proxy -- 'insulate' ourselves, rather, FROM the world, by surrounding ourselves with only 'like-mindedness.'

You see, it's been a very long, hard struggle for humanity to be liberated FROM hateful religions controlling our every acts. It's 'normal' therefore, to isolate by 'insulating' ourselves FROM differences, which religions have always done -- but proves it's unnatural to do.

Therefore, it's our DUTY to break-through those fictional, hateful religious concocted STONEWALLS -- and what's in a person's crotch or what they do with their crotch, has nothing to do with it.

-- the reason I say that, is because religionists FIRSTLY ANALyze PRIVATES -- perversely sniff crotches like DOGS -- in order to concoct an excuse to put CONDITIONS on THEIR 'love' for so-called 'beloved-neighbors,' to DENY EQUALITY and SERVICES, then have the AUDACITY to claim their VICTIMS are 'indecent,' proving zero integrity.

That is why so many live lonly lives in big cities. And it's a damned shame. It's all wrong.

[roody]

16. LA must be full of gay or gay friendly interest group:

running, skating, knitting, church, whatever. Pick up a gay paper and check it out.

[DarkTirade]

17. The best thing to do is the same thing you'd do to meet anyone...

find places and things you can do where you are the most at ease, and you feel the most yourself. You will naturally meet other people in similar circles that way, and there's none of that fake club scene crap up front, you'll be meeting the real them and they'll be meeting the real you. And odds are you'll at least have one thing in common to start talking about.
Unfortunately, I work the night shift right now so I'm awake when everyone else is asleep and vice versa... so I can't even take my own advice when it comes to meeting people. :)

[dsc]

19. I feel your pain

I am not a big bar person and it is difficult to find non bar activities even in cities sometimes. I second the suggestion of finding a gay paper and looking at its section. You should be able to find a gay card game, or gay bowling league, or whatever. It may be harder but not impossible. Good luck.

[pnwmom]

20. You're not too old. It's not unusual at all for gay men to take a while

to find themselves -- as the daughter of a gay man, I am acquainted with many other children of gays who didn't become comfortable with themselves into well into their 30's or 40's -- or beyond. And, of course, our fathers don't look or act like "stereotypical" gay men either -- otherwise, they wouldn't have done such a good job passing all those years!

Our best gay friend here has met lots of nice people, men and women, through volunteer work with the Chicken Soup Brigade. You might want to look into volunteer groups like that.

[Q3JR4]

21. I'm a 24 year old

gay male living in, of all places, Boise Idaho and I feel your pain. I'm active on campus at the university here (even after graduation) going to the one gay group's meetings and visiting with other people who are GLBT and allies.

Even with that piece of it, I find it hard to connect with other gay men. If I'm in a group of them for very long I get to the point where I want to leave the room and bash my head against a wall. Maybe the universe is giving me a clue that I should find different people to hang out with. :P

I've spent a lot of time at the bar here in town, and I have to agree with you Zhade bars suck. I like the music and I like hanging out with the people I go with, but mostly I like the getting really drunk part....hence the reason I don't go to bars very often. :P

My gaydar, though badly damaged it seems, still functions...mostly. I can usually pick up on the other men who like men (and possibly women) who are around me. I do not, however, have a functioning being-hit-on radar and I never realize it until a week later. It always leaves me with thoughts of "what if?"

Anyway I think you just have to hang in there. Eventually things have to work out, one way or the other.

Or so I tell myself. :P

[closeupready]

22. Hey, there - welcome to self-acceptance!

:hi: :D

In our society, unlike most others, men are not encouraged to form relationships with each other. When they do, those relationships are "suspect" as either gay (bad) or else unique, i.e., unnatural. That this is not only incorrect but itself unnatural (as people are inherently social) doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Anyway, to get to the point, it's hard for men to form friendships with other men. Popular wisdom holds that this is natural because men are natural competitors, i.e., would rather fight than cooperate (which, I know, is total bullcrap, but that's what people are taught). As a gay man, many of my friends are those who I dated at one time. My female friends are mostly what used to be known as "fag hags".

someone else may have hit it in suggesting that you have been taught to insulate yourself from others. That is, in seeking social approval, you have turned away what is natural for YOU and instead cultivated the image which is most beneficial for OTHERS. In other words, you find it hard to connect with other men because you don't know how. (which is I guess why you posted your opening post in the first place - "duh", huh? :D ).

Here's a suggestion: make a resolution to once per day (or week or whatever) select a stranger with whom you come into contact, look them in the eye, politely ask them a personal question, and LISTEN TO THEM. If you are intrigued, continue the conversation. If not, politely pull away. But at least in that way you are making an effort to see what can happen in life.

[mongo]

23. Hope this helps

http://www.stonewall-dems.org/1_CALENDAR.html

And there is a lot more GLBT community service organizations listed here
http://www.at-la.com/@la-gay.htm

So get out there and find some organization you would like to volunteer for.