ok, Take # 2: What is your take on femme "straight" men?

[sundog]

Honestly... If you see a man & the gaydar is sounding loud, yet he is standing with a wife & a band of gold. What goes through your head? Don't lie :)

Usually my thoughts first go to the wife: "Poor woman, will she be the last to know?" or "Can she be that clueless."

And my thoughts for the guy are usually, "Dude, you sold out" or something like that.

What are your thoughts?

[mr fry]

1. must be artsy

have we met? i have been viewed as gay my whole life ... straight and gay friends of riends always ask and are always surprised to discover i have a female wife and two kids....

[sundog]

3. k

:hi:

ps - welcome to du

[Us vs Them]

2. "You're too pretty to be straight!"

...I get this one all the time. Don't you just love dealing with other people who prejudge based on their own mutated justification?

My thoughts? Don't worry so much about other people.

[Freebird12004]

4. judging a book by it's cover is risky

it's not always as it seems. Having style doesn't indicate that a man is gay.

[uppityperson]

5. My sweety is very femme and been approached as being gay

One acquaintence was amazed that I'm marry him "but he's gay", "no, just happy". You can't always tell by how the look or move or any such thing.

[sundog]

6. right on

It's cool.

Seems to be the common sentiment.

My lower humanity still has tendencies to judge. Yes it's true. I shall not lie... Just stuff that runs through my head.

When I reach the spiritual state of non-judgement I'll let ya know. ;)

:hi:

[uppityperson]

7. I'm prejudgiced as I prejudge people

As soon as I hear or see or otherwise encounter someone, I've judged them in some way. I figure so long as I know this, I can counter it.

I got in trouble once for not explaining this well to a PeaceCorps enroller once. ("Admits is prejudiced-don't enroll"). Oh well, that country rose up in flames shortly after I was supposed to be there.

[twenty2strings]

8. Straight men have to put on their image armor...

Just like deep closet gay men...Especially in work environments. I think that the way men have to act is somewhat phony.

[Technowitch]

9. My thoughts? I simply don't assume anything

I've met 'femmy' straight guys, and exceedingly macho gay guys. Same thing with women. I know hetero women who are butch-looking beyond belief -- and I happen to be a decidely femme Bi woman (in a lesbian marriage).

Gender expression, behavior, and mannerisms only SOMETIMES correlate with sexual orientation. The fact this isn't ALWAYS is what leads me to assume nothing until I learn otherwise.

[sundog]

13. let me clarify a bit...

I live in a very rural, fundie-dominant area.

If I see a guy come into my business after church (dressed in his Sunday best) with his wife... my gaydar tipping off the map... then yes, I do pass judgement... I cannot help it.

I see so many churches eager to make people fit their standards. There is more than one of this sort of character in my area. I view this guy as a casualty. He has taken the bait. Hook, line & sinker. Yes, I am a bit pissed because he has not made a stand.

I know full well that he is gay (sorry that some may refute the concept gaydar, but it DOES exist).

In my mind, he has chosen the low path... the easy road. Sometimes the easy road is inadvertently harder, but it does not ease my frustration of watching someone who (in my mind) has compromised himself.

If religion is his grounded reality, then in actuality he has made no compromise. That would simply mean his integrity is rooted in another soil altogether. In his mind, sexuality may be a price he had to pay to maintain his religious integrity.

Again, I am not so infallible as to never make a statement of judgment. They are simply a product of what I hold close, the things I had to fight for, and the price it cost me: the right to be gay & not have to live a lie.

[One_Life_To_Give]

14. How accurate is Your gaydar?

I can't help but think about part of the book; My Husband Betty. Where she describes a particular Haloween party where some guy refuses to beleive that the two of them are married.

I don't doubt that some of the people you meet are Gay. But I would not assume that a Guy who is Femm to one degree or another is necessarily Gay. In fact I would might assume the opposite. If he happpened to have a unremarkable DRAB mode except for maybe a hint of polish on his nails or a hint of wearing stockings under his suit.

[sundog]

15. the above character exists in a small town

I am not really thinking of an urban character who is a bit swishy & has good taste in clothing.

I have lived in both the city & small town. There is a different GLBT dynamic in a rural setting. I am always interested in the motivations & mindset of the rural characters I encounter. I realize that many rural GLBT humans exist in the closet because of overwhelming oppressive forces around them.

After I made my original statement, my thoughts progressed. I found myself trying to get inside the mindset of the small town femme closet male with a wife.

Note in the above post that this man is a churchgoer... churches in rural areas are mostly of the fundie persuasion.

I believe options are more limited for a GLBT person who has grown up in a poor rural area & not been able to escape that cycle of poverty.

Remember, poverty often lends itself to insecurity. Churches often serve to fill that space - the need for acceptance. The man a describe is simply a product of his environment. He is fitting into one of only a few narrow slots available to him.

So should I be pissed because he hasn't made a stand, or is this man simply a victim of circumstance?

The biggest thing I am beginning to see are sharp lines between GLBT individuals of rural / urban / wealthy / middle-class / poor backgrounds. Each person's experience will be a force in directing who they become.

I realize my statement immediately subjects me to judgment, which I am fine with.

[One_Life_To_Give]

16. Support them whatever they choose.

Just as Peter denied Jesus. There are times when not standing up is understandable. Though I think taking a spouse of other than your gender preference is really unfair to the spouse.

But since you mention "Femme Male" and I also happen to visit a few message boards for Cross-Dressers. I know there a quite a few straight CD's, married with kids, in rural and urban areas.

[NAO]

10. I once said at work, "I don't watch sports and I've never seen 'Baywatch'

...and then our office token flamboyant gay man swished over and asked me, "do you like Show Tunes?"

We all had a good laugh. I don't like show tunes, so I guess I don't meet the criteria. But he said I've got potential.

All kidding aside, I know I am straight. There is no mystique or guilty temptation to be with someone of the same sex. Nor is their any hostility toward GLBT people. I'm not femme at all, I just don't display some of the typical 'manly' things. But my wife is not deluded, nor have I sold out. If I watched sports to make sure others knew I was straight, THAT would be selling out.

Sometimes a banana is just a banana, and a femme man really is straight.

[readmoreoften]

12. That's funny, my best friend had a similar experience

After the college games in Texas, a maintenance guy at his apartment complex asked him who he was rooting for. When my friend said, 'I don't know. I don't watch sports' the maintenance guy backed away slowly and nervously.

[davidinalameda]

20. since football is a religion in Texas

anyone who doesn't watch sports must be some sort of deviant

of course, I know gay men who not only know sports but <gasp> play them as well

[readmoreoften]

11. there is a difference between femme straight men and gay men

There is also a difference between lesbians and 'manly' straight women. One of my dearest friends is a very physically masculine heterosexual woman. She has enormous biceps, a very deep voice, and large masculine hands. But genderwise this girl is femme. She wishes she was smaller, she wears make up and nail polish. Etc. When the previous poster was talking about 'butch' straight women she wasn't talking about masculine or gender non-conforming straight women. She was talking aboout straight women w/ crew cuts and ties and suits.

My best friend is an feminine straight man. He is nothing like a stereotypically 'nelly' gay man and nothing like a queen. He is more like a feminine nature dyke. He has longish hair, loves bath oils and skin softeners, privileges emotional sensitivity over most things. And he only likes very feminine women. He just loves the feminine things of the world. We call him a gyke. A guy-dyke.

And then there's my dentist who sounds like fucking Charles Nelson Reilly. When he told me he was married it shocked me. He reeks of mothballs he's so closeted.

But there is only one way to know for sure if a married man is gay: does he like Madonna and the Pet Shop Boys. (just kidding! just kidding! don't flame me!)

[madamheidi84]

17. i know a girly guy...

he's one of my very good friends. He likes musicals, Madonna, and he's very openly emotional, but he's straight. My friends and I always joke with him (I swear we each get a "gay" joke in once a day), but if you throw him in a room with a bunch of girls he goes automatically into flirt mode, and he definitely likes the ladies, so I guess stereotypes are just that sometimes...stereotypes.

[Moloch]

18. It seems to be the trendy thing nowadays..

Personally I blame it on Queer Eye for the Straight Guy

argh I want to strangle those pretentious little queens!#@!

[Misunderestimator]

19. I have a friend who finally convinced me that he really is straight

even though the gaydar goes off everytime we're together, and waiters flirt with him in restaurants. He's been married for 12 years and has two beautiful kids, and he's a sweet, sweet, man with some really wonderful feminine qualities. Maybe somewhere deep inside there's a part of him left unexplored, but he seems genuinely happy.