Anyone else think there is such a thing as a 'gay face?'

[KnowerOfLogic]

I probably shouldn't start this thread since i don't have very much time to devote to it, but i thought i would throw this observation/question out:

We all know about gaydar, and i suppose a lot of gaydar has to do with recognizing certain kinds of dress, hairstyles, mannerisms, etc, but i think that there are also certain specific facial charateristics that *some* gay people have, which allow us to recognize them (each other).

My theory is that homosexuality is probably congenital (or genetic, but i'm leaning towards the former) and the particular environment during gestation causes some unique facial features, much the same way Down's syndrome, William's syndrome, and fetal alcohol syndrome cause unique, identifiable facial features. (Of course i'm not saying being gay is a 'birth defect' or any such thing; i'm gay and certainly there's nothing wrong with it). Anyway, i think there are a few different 'gay faces;' the features are fairly subtle and not always present, but when they *are* present, the person is usually always gay.

Unfortunately, i can't think of any good, well-known examples to offer; possibly Barney Frank, Robert Reed (Brady Bunch dad), Bayard Rustin (Civil rights leader) on the men's side; and Mary Cheney, Amelie Mauresmo, Camille Paglia, Chastity Bono, and Rosie O'Donnel on the women's side. I think that there are a couple different types of faces for both gay men and women.

Okay, am i completely nuts, or has anybody else noticed something along these lines?

[tuvor]

1. I don't think you're nuts.

Sometimes there's something there that I can't quite put my finger on, but that I can't help noticing.

FWIW I fall into the straight-but-not-narrow camp, and have many gay friends.

[applegrove]

2. At at least 10% of the population you have alot of faces there ..

sounds like faulty logic to me. Besides they say that it is a whole combination of things and not just one (environment in the womb) that blesses you with being on one end of the bisexual gradient or the other.

[Dookus]

3. Hmm... I don't know....

I have to say, in my experience, I don't think I can look at a face and tell one way or the other - absent other fashion/style/grooming clues.

I can see a woman's face alone and have no clue - but put her in a mullet with no makeup, and a flannel shirt, and I might have a guess.

I don't see anything particularly gay about Robert Reed's face, or Barney Frank's or Camille Paglia's or Chastity Bono's or Rosie O'Donnell's.

If I'd never heard Frank speak, I wouldn't think he was gay. Nothing about Reed ever set me off - I learned he was gay when he died. Camille Paglia just looks like a strong italian woman to me, etc. etc.

Rosie O'Donell - doesn't look gay to me. But as soon as you hear her speak and see her mannerisms, then yeah, it's obvious. But if I'd never seen her before and saw a picture of her without a butch haircut, I'd have no idea.

Yes, there are certainly men with feminine faces and women with masculine faces - but I don't think those correspond very much with sexuality. I've known plenty of pretty straight guys and mannish straight women, and vice versa.

[MADem]

4. I remember a few years back the news was carrying a story

...about length of the middle finger being a "tell tale" sign. It was on all the major newscasts for a couple of days. I think a few people challenged the study, but then it just disappeared.

Maybe I'm obtuse, but I don't see anything in a face, in and of itself, that would tell you anything decisively, except maybe ethnicity (though as more folk mix it up, that's getting more intermingled, too!).

A theory for a twin study, maybe???

[darkism]

5. The old middle finger test made the news? You're not serious.

I heard that malarkey when I was in junior high ten years ago.

And why would that even be newsworthy anyway?

[MADem]

8. I'm completely serious--It was a UC Berkeley study

I saw a report on CNN about it, as well as two or three of the network nightly news shows. It was newsworthy because it apparently was a new study at the time by a respected university. I didn't follow the study very closely, I simply recall hearing about it.

Here are a few links that discuss it--I'm not talking "urban legend" stuff, mind you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/695142.stm
Finger length may be an indication of sexual orientation, a controversial study has shown.
Scientists from California found that lesbian women have a greater difference in length between their ring finger and index finger than straight women do.

The same pattern was also found for homosexual men - but only when the researchers looked at those males that had several older brothers.
Here's the abstract from PUBMED
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11910785

[Fescue4u]

6. In men I don't know..but women most definitely

I've come to call it "lesbian cheeks". Thats just been between me and my wife, and guess anyone reading this now.

But anyway I've noticed that particular trait amongst many lesbians and I've been able to predict with uncanny accuracy that some women are lesbians based on this trait.

Ironically, Im usually find these women somewhat attractive.

[Old Mouse]

7. Impossible

10% of all cultures, peoples and civilizations.

Even if there were a hormonal shift to help account for uncontrollable fetishizing, it would fall apart when examined across racial characteristics, and therefore not be a product of nature, but environment.

The gay lifestyle would produce the feature, the feature would not be an identifying sign of predisposed attraction to the lifestyle.

[Skarbrowe]

9. Hmmm. I've noticed something about the shape of noses.

Obviously this is not all gay people, but I have noticed that a lot of gay women have either larger than normal noses or they tip down a bit. Also, uh, thin lips. When I was a pup, I met a lot of women who were very attractive in that symmeterical type of way. At that time, I didn't think there was a gay face. Now when I look at pictures of gay women in magazines or see known gay women on TV or gay women from history, they all seemed to have anything but small perky noses. Again, this is just people that I know are gay.

When I see a beautiful man, I mean a Jude Law type, or Billy Campbell (just google the name and a pic comes up )I do think there is a strong possiblity they are gay. Beautiful men, in my opinion, are more likely to be attracted to other beautiful men. I'm a ex-gay, asexual female and all I can say about that is "I don't blame them! " :)

It's possible that classically pretty women who are gay or even bi-sexual tend to "pass" for straight more than obviously gay women, or the more butch types, so it's really hard to even guess how many universally thought of "beautiful women" are gay. That tends to skew the results so I don't think it's possible to say that facial features can always or possibly "most of the time" depict a gay female. Beautiful gay men, again IMHO, if not hindered by their jobs (ex. Entertainment Industry) are more likely to be out and visible.

I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her. I mean immediately. It wasn't because of her face. The dead give away for me was the way she wore her pants and the way she stood. Jodie Foster was a baby butch from her first commercial.

With men, check out their eyes and mouths when they smile. An awful lot of gay men will have the sweetest damn smiles you'll ever see and their eyes turn very feminine, soft and kind. A gay women might not use the female to male signals like touching their hair or looking down when they are talking to a man. They keep their heads up and look you in the eye. Believe it or not, I've had straight men catch on to me just from these actions alone.

There are a lot of "tells" or explanations of gaydar, but I'm convinced that we are all too different in so many individual ways that the things we (gay people) do have in common, and there are many, that they are outweighed by these differences and that if we could actually know or see every gay person in the world we would be shocked at how much we look like all the straight people in the world.

[readmoreoften]

10. I think this is unfruitful territory to wander down

I'm a dyke with a nose that doesn't tilt downwards and my face looks nothing like my partners' or many other lesbians that I know.

I don't want doctors reading the lumps on my head or studying the length of my fingers.

I don't understand the need to look for medical rationalizations for our lives. I refuse to believe that my loving, wonderful, special relationship is predicated on a congenital birth defect. And believe you me, if any 'gay gene' is found then it will be labeled as such.

Thankfully, most of this junk science is debunked sooner or later. I think the best book on this subject is Ann Fausto Sterling's Sexing the Body.

[arcos]

11. I actually think it's something in the eyes...

I still haven't been able to figure out what exactly, though :P

[soothsayer]

12. Yes! There's a look I call "the lesbian eyes" tho I'm a lesbian and

I don't have it. But the women who DO have it....lesbians! (er---not all lesbians have the lesbian eyes, but all women with the lesbian eyes are in fact lesbians----that's my hypothesis)

[Langley85]

13. Not Sure About Myself

I've asked a few friends if I come across as noticeably gay without saying so, and I've gotten mixed reactions. Some people say they never really noticed anything, others say I'm a little "bouncy", whatever that means. Quite a few people have told me I move my hands just a little effeminately, nothing extremely obvious, but just a touch of gayness about me that some of them picked up on, I guess. But lots of gay guys aren't feminine at all.