Now there are numbers: Pentagon anti-gay policy forced out skilled troops

[Nothing Without Hope]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/213588_gaysnew25.html

Friday, February 25, 2005

Pentagon policy on gays forced out skilled troops
About 300 linguists have left because of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' GAO says
By BRYAN BENDER
THE BOSTON GLOBE

WASHINGTON -- More than 300 foreign-language specialists considered critical in the war on terrorism have been forced out of the military in the past decade because of their sexual orientation, according to the first government study to assess both the war-fighting and financial effect of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy prohibiting openly gay service members.

These soldiers had "some skills in an important foreign language, such as Arabic, Farsi and Korean," according to a report by the Government Accountability Office to be published next month. At least 54 of the 322 language specialists spoke Arabic -- more than twice as many as previous estimates. At the same time, more than 400 other soldiers discharged under the policy had what the Pentagon considers "critical occupations," including Navy code breakers, Army intelligence specialists and interrogators, Air Force air traffic controllers and Marine counterintelligence specialists.

(snip)

"The conventional justification for Don't Ask, Don't Tell has been that allowing gays to serve undermines military readiness," Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., and a member of the Armed Services Committee, said in a statement. "Now we have the numbers to prove that the policy itself is undermining our military readiness."

(snip)

The UCSB center was the first to report that nearly 10,000 soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen were ordered out of the military under the ban, taking with them many of the same skills that are now in short supply. The study by the GAO, which is the investigative arm of Congress, is the first detailed examination of the effects of the ban on gays in the military and the related costs.

(snip)

Much more in this excellent, fact-filled article. A good resource to add to the documentation for reframing the national debate on gay rights.

[applegrove]

1. Duh! One in ten!!!

[BlackVelvetElvis]

2. Being gay is a bigger deal than being a terrorist.

That's been the rhetoric I've used for almost 3 years.
Thanks for the article!

[Nothing Without Hope]

3. On the long list of logically incomprehensible things about the policy

as it exists now in the military is that it actually encourages remaining closeted. And it is the CLOSETED people who are the security risks because of their vulnerability to blackmail, as is well known from all traditions of espionage as well as common sense.

DUUHHHH!!!!

As if logic or fact has ANYTHING to do with the Pentagon policies on gays. We need to drive this home.

[EFerrari]

4. Maybe they don't want to lose the lever.

Because that's the way the Cabal thinks. "Hey, closeted gays, blackmail. Why ruin a good thing?"

[Nothing Without Hope]

7. Yeah, I'm betting that actually is part of it

I think entrapment and setting up blackmail is a part of the way the neocon/Bush/Saudi cartel coerces support. Anything the victim is ashamed of and fears becoming public knowledge would be useful, even things that are normal and common -- like being gay. (Of course shady secrets -- mistresses -- or truly criminal ones -- fraud or pedophilia -- would be grist for this mill too.)

There was a huge gay prostitution ring scandal associated with the 1989 Reagan/Bush the First White House, and the investigation was derailed by the administration -- I'm betting that, as you say, they didn't want to lose the lever. The solid leads --records of transactions -- went everywhere -- Congressmen, judges, military leaders, all sorts of influential and prominent people. And I suspect something like that may be going on in the current administration as well. Perhaps another sideline of "Gannon" and his true colleagues is entrapment for blackmail?

I even think the rabid gay-hating promoted by the administration has a deliberate fringe benefit of upping the stakes on coming out. Coming out would end the vulnerability to blackmail, after all.

I have a thread on all this theorizing. I'd be curious to hear what you think--is this tinfoil hat territory?:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1609452
Title: "Blackmailing closeted gays - a hidden reason for GOP gay demonization?"

[EFerrari]

8. After reading, my take remains that "gay hating" is no more about gays

than "supporting the troops" is about the troops.

If you remove the faux moral rhetorical frame, both groups are completely expendable to the political agenda.

These people redefine hypocrisy. "Hypocritical" is a moral term, and they seem at best only in touch with ethics enough to manipulate the ethics of others.

So, they're always on two tracks: What they say to normal people---->their increasingly whacko base, and what they privately think among themselves, which is just business as the Godfather would say.

The Mafia must worship these guys.

So, no, this isn't meta-conspiracy imo, it's just noticing the obvious. Gay hate speech is a business strategy. It yields votes from bigots and helps consolidate the power of the Cabal through threat of disclose.

Hard for decent people with a moral compass and a normal amount of empathy for other beings to wrap their heads around.

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. That is very well said, and I agree strongly with every word

These people redefine hypocrisy. "Hypocritical" is a moral term, and they seem at best only in touch with ethics enough to manipulate the ethics of others.

That is exactly right.

We need to think through how to reframe the national discourse in which hate language and policies of discrimination and suppression are held up as being for "security" and are claimed to be justified in artificial, cherry-picked Biblical quotes, so that the authority of God is invoked by corrupt demagogues. This insanely distorted framing language MUST be opposed by a well thought-through campaign that will displace it and expose it for the soulless scheming that it is.

You're right. This isn't about gays or the troops, these are just disposable groups in the minds of the Cabal, to be fed into the propaganda machine to stir up the public's fear.

It's one of the great ironies in all of this that hate- and fear-mongers, who have killed thousands and ruined the lives of countless more, who have made a business of selling betrayals at all levels all over the world, have aquired their followers' trust by claiming to be the opposite of what they truly are.

[EFerrari]

10. Well, so. You see there are two "streams" here.

"It's one of the great ironies in all of this that hate- and fear-mongers, who have killed thousands and ruined the lives of countless more, who have made a business of selling betrayals at all levels all over the world, have acquired their followers' trust by claiming to be the opposite of what they truly are."

Yes, yes and yes. "Irony" is too generous a descriptor, imo.

Back to my idea of the two streams: What the Cabal says to the public and how they think about it in their every day "business".

(Btw, I've never posted here before. I'm bi and sort of ignorant of most of the luggage that comes with as I've have a ton to deal with besides me. And maybe out of cowardice or lack of imagination.

But to quote Frost, "I've a mind myself and appreciate mind". Didn't want to insert myself.)

And tend to abstraction :(

But, clearly, the Cabal works on a 2-track system for efficiency. 1) What they say to each other & 2) How they put it out to the populace.

Ideas about challenging both?

edited for light bulbs going on, finally. thanks, Beth

[Nothing Without Hope]

11. I think there needs to be at least a whole thread on this subject

of how to reframe. I'm not sure where it should be -- there actually is a "reframing" forum, which I have not yet investigated but might be a good choice for the discourse.

Or perhaps the GD-Politics Forum, because that is seen by a lot of people.

Or it could be the the GLBT forum. But as you say, this isn't really about being gay as much as being a cold-blooded business decision of the Cabal. But no one would deny that this is a GLBT issue first of all, though it affects every person.

We need input from psychologists (where does this fear that the demagogues are whipping come from -- how can it be laid to rest?) and as well as many other kinds of insights. Ultimately, there also needs to be more public action by trusted religious figures to undermine the fake biblical authority with which the hatemongers have cloaked their true motives.

Shall we investigate the DU forums and report back here with ideas of where to start a thread and how to title it? Conceptually it would be about reframing, language use, sociolgical pressures, and psychology. I don't have professional experience in any of those areas (my expertise is in the biological sciences), and I'm not even gay or bi - I'm a hetero female, one of those people with "a moral compass and a normal amount of empathy for other beings." But I am utterly outraged by the neocon anti-gay hate agenda and I am certain that a reframing campaign is essential for national healing. Many voices need to oppose the hate and offer an alternative that the fear-ridden public can turn to with relief.

So what the heck. We can start something with the idea that more knowledgable people around DU will chime in with expert input in like they often do. I'd like for us (and anyone else who would like to participate -- the more engaged minds the better) to explore the various DU forums and report back here on what looks like a good place to start a thread on all this. What do you think?

edited to add: Real life looks like it will be preventing me from doing more on this thread tonight, but I will be back tomorrow.

[EFerrari]

12. I'd like to see what the GLBT forum thinks about all this

first. The media forum, the reframing forum could all be adjuncts.

But no one is denying me a job, benefits, beating me up or threatenig me in any tangible way. So, I'm not on the front lines of this struggle.

So, people, what do you think?

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. Yes, I'm not a direct victim in this either - please give your thoughts

on how to proceed, people of the GLBT Forum.

[arwalden]

6. Isn't That Amazing???

The heterosexual military personnel who is cheating on their spouse is a greater security risk than an openly gay officer.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. kick

[swimmernsecretsea]

14. Just shows how this ban hurts our citizens and our country

I met someone that, under the other the other Bush administration, was imprisoned, grilled for 14 hours without contact to legal advice, food and water, or sleep. During this time he was repeatedly threatened with being outed to family and friends, and attempts were made to force him to name service men and women who he knew were homosexual. He was ultimately given a dishonorable discharge, then told that it would be upgraded to "honorable" or "general" if he would continue to use his specialized cryptography skills in the service of the military. Not wanting to have a dishonorable discharge, he continued to work. After his term ended, he was still given a dishonorable discharge. When I met him, he was attempting to get his life back together. We talked at an artists' group. He was living in a very bad part of South of Market in San Francisco.

I'm not surprised to see that when our military decides it needs a skilled person, it uses him up like a bottle of something then tosses him aside like garbage.

[Nothing Without Hope]

15. You break my heart with this story, swimmernsecretsea

What a bitter irony that these hateful monsters base their criminal behavior on the premise that being gay is shameful, when it is normal, and their own behavior is beyond any bound of humanity. If they call themselves Christians, can they truly believe the gentle, tolerant, loving Jesus would be the side of their policies in this? I don't belive they think or feel anything except fear and hate.

My heart goes out to your friend, who has been traumatized for trying to do his duty. I hope he can find the healing that he needs.

Please note that I have posted a link in this thread to a newer DU thread on the same general subject of the new GAO report. This thread contains additional info, including a link to the actual GAO report text and a video clip. That new thread is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3198717

I am still hoping the GLBT Forum people will express their views on how to build a larger reframing campaign as discussed in the earlier comments here in this thread.

[Nothing Without Hope]

19. Does your friend know about the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network?

Since you posted this message on Feb 28, there have been further developments in moving toward getting the "Don't ask/don't tell" rule ended. For example, see this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1632718
Title: "Don't ask, don't tell" is a national security risk & has wasted >$200MM

At the end of one of the posts in this thread (Reply #3) there was the following line that I wanted to be sure you knew about:
Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is a national, non-profit legal services, watchdog and policy organization dedicated to ending discrimination against and harassment of military personnel affected by 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and related forms of intolerance. For more information, visit http://www.sldn.org


It sounds like your friend is just trying to put everything behind him, but if he ever wants to tell his story to the right people, this sounds like the place. The assumption by the authoritarian thugs that the victims of their persecution are helpless because they have no one to turn to is false. Maybe they could do something about that dishonorable discharge? At least they would have heard stories like his before and would not make him feel like a pariah.

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. Another thread on this story, with a link to the GAO report and video

is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3198717
Title: "Don't ask, don't tell" Undermines National Security/ has Wasted $200MM

This other thread is in the General Discussion Forum. I am hoping that members of the GLBT Forum will still post in the current thread their views on the ideas about a reframing campaign discussed in earlier comments.

[Nothing Without Hope]

17. Now there is a bill submitted to allow gays in the military

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1279786#1279842

Things are breaking fast now. We need to keep watch.

Also see a more complete coverage of the GAO report in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1632718

[Nothing Without Hope]

18. Insight about the psychology of homophobia from a new book

Homophobia is not the main subject of this book, but it sure does fit right into the picture portrayed by the author, Stephen Ducat. The title:"The Wimp Factor: Gender Gaps, Holy Wars, and the Politics of Anxious Masculinity "

There's an excellent interview with the author about the book at Buzzflash:
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/03/int05011.html
excerpt: This femiphobia--this male fear of being feminine--operates unconsciously in many men as a very powerful determinant of their political behavior. Also, this femiphobia constitutes a very significant motive for fundamentalist terrorism.

There's a DU thread on this interview and its implications here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3204942
In two of my replies in this thread, I talk more about the urgent need for a reframing campaign to combat homophobia in this country.