I solemnly swear to NEVER donate to another politician who doesn't believe in full equality for us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

I think other gay people should swear to this as well.

All the money i have spent should have gone towards NO on prop 8.

I regret having contributed to hillary, obama or the dnc.

From now on all my money will go towards people who believe in my rights.

[ingac70]

1. This fight is going to go to the US Supreme Court eventually.

So you will be glad about the money you gave Obama and the DNC.

[KitchenWitch]

4. With all due respect...

I do get what you are saying regarding the SCOTUS, but I can understand lionesspriyanka's refusal to give any more money to the parties that disenfranchised her and the GLBT community. The GLBT community has often been used as a pawn to garner votes, and have been offered countless promises that their loyalty will be rewarded. As yet, their loyalty has been ignored, and the carrot seems to always be dangled in front of their noses every election cycle.

[ingac70]

7. I feel you...

but I don't think they should give up the fight. Rights for other minorities never came overnight in the past.

[mitchtv]

22. Who's giving up the fight?

We are giving up on the dems. Sorry if I can't celebrate Obama's victory eith you, but He doesn't "beleive in" same sex marriage

[The Brethren]

30. I know I'm not giving up the fight at all.

In fact, the election has put a fire under this little fem's fanny to fight even harder. LOL

I'm trying to joke about it, but what has happened recently has been a reminder to stand up for ourselves and to be angry....which I am. I am also feeling very let down by our democratic party. One of the most infuriating things that came out of some stats about who voted for Prop. 8 for ex., showed some of those who supported it were dems, including other minorities. I'm disgusted. And I'm not feeling very generous with our (my partner's and my) monies to donate any group right now other than helping gay right's.

Maybe in time I'll feel differently, but I'm very angry about being walked over. Why aren't our democratic leaders publically outraged at the open discrimination against us? Are we not worthy enough of their time? Think about it, when was the last time a state amendment was used to take away a group of American's rights except for us...not once, but several times? I think I'm going to start being a little selfish politically for awhile -- my energies go into us.

[Creideiki]

35. Overnight?

God only punished the Israelites with 40 years in the desert for their indiscretion. We're now long past 40 years.

Pray tell. How long should we be punished because of the people that are skeeved out that I might want to give the guy I'm dating a hug?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. dont tell me what i will be glad and wont be glad about.

the rest of you dems can contribute to anybody you want to. I however wont, and i will discourage people i know to contribute toward people who are not committed to me and mine.

also the supreme court will not rule in our favor for a while, the public impetus is lacking as is the political impetus

[bigscott]

2. Bingo Lioness

great strides were made electing BHO to the Presidency, but some of us are still sitting in the back of the bus

peace

[mrcheerful]

3. It's not their fult that america is filled with homophobes and remember what life is like for gays

under republicon rule. I truely am sorry that prop 8 passed but I was also pissed when Michigan passed anti gay laws. I think its bs that the people out there pass these anti civil right laws, very rarely do they stop anything and it takes years to get them off the books. So don't take my post the wrong way, I'm not anti gay nor do I like the way gays are treated, all I can do is cast my vote against such laws. Remember this is america, any law passed that effects the freedoms of one group of citizens effect us all.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. actually it is their fault for not being unequivocal on gay rights. if they cared there would be

change. instead they take us for granted

[electron_blue]

12. Had they been unequivocal on gay rights, they would have lost this election.

Now that Obama and Biden have won, they should be pressured more than ever to support these rights.

I've struggled hard against sexism all my life (I work in a heavily male-dominated field) and I learned that what matters most in making inroads againt inequality is what people do, or are required to do, and not what they say or believe.

[Chovexani]

20. Well withholding our hard earned money is pressure from where I'm sitting.

[electron_blue]

21. Sure. Just write a letter making sure they know it's being withheld.

That'll have more of an effect than an individual just withholding by him/herself.

[Chovexani]

33. I plan on it.

:)

[Zhade]

27. You are breaking DU rules, or dangerously close to it.

These are Skinner's own words on blaming GLBTers for any election loss:

4. If your explanation for why we lost is based entirely (or almost entirely) on gay rights, then you are scapegoating and you're probably a homophobe. You might get banned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1324374

You don't get to blame even POTENTIAL election losses on us here. No sir.

[electron_blue]

29. You're quoting a post from 4 years ago? I hadn't seen this before to be honest.

But now that I've seen that post, I'll refer you to item #6 on that list, which is closer to my intent of my original statement - that Obama had to throw gay marriage under the bus, if you will, in the interest of political expediency. I'm sorry my post bothered you.

I hate settling for less than a 100% perfect candidate (at least one who is not 100% in agreement with the issues I feel strongest about), and I will share with you that Obama was not my first choice a year ago- I voted for someone else in the caucus. Obama has also not come out strong enough for women's rights (imo), which is one reason he wasn't my first choice last year, but having McCain in office would only be worse for my interests.

California now has thousands of gay couples legally married. Thousands more will be turned away from now on. I think this dichotomy of unfairness will finally be able to crack through enough Americans' consciousness for this to be settled once and for all - probably through the Supreme Court. I hope you can see that I support gay rights - full legal rights, even if you and I differ about how candidates should run their campaigns.

[The Brethren]

32. One of the glaring examples

to me of how insidious this whole thing is, is that it started showing up since 2004 with discriminatory marriage laws. And then again in this election. 4 yrs. of state by state discrimination -- where outrage, strategies, actions, more strategies and even more actions could've been taken by our democratic leaders...not to mention other groups and organizations who should give a damn about what has happened. Add to the list church groups who claim they're against discrimination. And nothing. Nothing as far as I've seen. Not a word about a course of action to overturn the previous amendments/laws. Nor media coverage of it except when it first happened. And the same all over again today. The media mentioned it briefly after election day that I found, but then it was onto more important things.

It's like a bad joke that everyone is trying to politely ignore. Only it's not a joke.

A few recaps of what has been happening and who we're up against - from an article in 2006 on the Colorado marriage amendment that passed:

"Coloradans for Marriage includes a well-organized coalition of groups. According to a study by the Institute on Money in State Politics, which calls itself nonpartisan, groups affiliated with Focus on the Family spent more than $250,000 to help similar initiatives pass in eight other states."

'Every similar measure that has been voted on in 15 states since 2004 has passed, and observers say that's likely to happen in Colorado as well.
"At the moment. there's no reason to believe that these amendments won't pass everywhere they are put on the ballot," said John Green, a senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life in Washington D.C. "It's partly because traditional marriage is popular. It's also because these groups are well organized and they raise money and they work very hard."'

'"There is a similar law in Washington state and we expect the Supreme Court any day now to overturn that law," Minnery said. "The Supreme Court in Colorado is about as liberal as it can be. We expect at some point the defense of marriage law would be overturned here as well. That's why we need an amendment.' Yes, let's make it harder to overturn discrimination by making it an amendment.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/elections/article/0,2808,DRMN_24736_4416699,00.html

[electron_blue]

41. good points. The republican party has used gay marriage bans as a reason to

get republican registered voters to the polls who would otherwise stay away. It's a cash cow for them in that respect. Expect the GOP to fight this going all the way to the SCOTUS. Becaues if it *did* go all the way and get finally decided by the S.C. - either way - they would not be able to put it on every friggin' ballot in areas with high Dem turnout.

Similar reason why after 8 years of Reagan, 4 yrs of Bush first, 8 years of Bush 2, we still have legal abortions. If they outlawed them all, as their candidates claim they support, they'd lose a major card to play at elections.

I hope this hugely backfires on the churches and significant amounts of them lose tax exempt status because of what happened in California. I bet they didn't anticipate that. It may finally pull the plug on this.

[mtnester]

11. Q: Let's try to avoid nuance. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: No. We do not support that. That is a decision to be able to be left to faiths.



So whose fault is it? The african americans that voted for Prop 8, or the affirmation of one of the Dem candidates/party leaders that the party does not support gay marriage? Note the use of the word "we" in the answer.

Fault lies with every person that verbally or otherwise does not GET that denying gay "marriage" is exacty the same as denying inter-racial "marriage." No...difference...at...all...none

Separate but equal support of same-sex benefits is not the same either. Imagine saying "okay, we do not support inter racial marriage, but inter racial couple benefits is kewl with us."

[mrcheerful]

14. If Biden had said yes we do guess where we would be today?

The cons would have made this election about gay marriage again. Change in america comes slowly and as long as you have a majority that are idiots who vote on fears instead of hope change is hard. Think about it, when Obama gave his speech tuesday night he included gays in it. Educating kids that gays are not boogie men or women out to turn them into something they are not must be done.

It was desegregation of the schools that got us where we are today, electing an afro american as president. Stop the fear and change will happen, but remember you will not win over the older generations to your side and they will be a thorn in your side until they are no longer a majority. You can see change coming, look at the youth and how many of them are going metro sexual.

I understand your frustration and anger, I live with my own. I am a disabled american who as a child of the 60's have seen change in how disabled were treated back then and how it is today. I remember when special Olympics was started, only to be involved in it you had to be in special ed. I remember teachers that refused to teach disabled kids because it was a waste of their time. I remember getting flunked in drivers ed because the instructor thought disabled shouldn't have a drivers license. Then theres the freaking idiots out there that see the disabled 2 ways, those who are working and the rest of us lazy fucks who aren't. 52 years of you don't try hard enough because you only limp so you can work crap.

If we lived in a perfect world then no one would be judged but we live in this imperfect world where every day is a struggle for those that are seen as different. Is it fair, no it isn't. Does it hurt not being accepted for who you are, you bet it hurts. Can we change it, Yes We Can, but its not going to happen over night, we have to fight it every day until things do change. You need to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue fighting.

Again I am on your side and wish the world wasn't the mean, nasty, unfair place it is, trust me I do voice my opinions when I hear idiots running anti gay shit, in fact I pissed my land lord off by telling him that if sleeping with another man bothered him so much then don't sleep with men. He found out two females rented a house from him and he couldn't do a thing because they already signed the lease and went on a rant about gays. Sooooooooo I am waiting to see how he treats me on Dec.1st. He threw me out of his office btw.

[MNBrewer]

38. The cons would have made this election about gay marriage again

That's what it WAS about!!!!!! At least for THIS gay man. And for every homosexual in California. It's ALWAYS about gay marriage, at least until it's been achieved

[mrcheerful]

40. Yeah I understand that and the feeling of being left out in the cold with

little or none understanding how you feel. I feel that why a lot and it's frustrating when you realize that neither side is standing up for your rights. The one that hurt more then it helped was the right to work disability law that was passed, says that businesses had to hire disabled and find a place for them in the business. After it was passed businesses didn't have to do either unless they wanted to hire disabled.

Like I said to deny one of their rights as a citizen is to deny all of their civil rights. I don't know if you remember this, but in some states, the mentaly disabled can't give consent for sex nor can they marry, if the parents and a doctor declare that their mental abilities make them to young to understand the terms consent or marriage, its for the protection of the mentally disabled so they are not taken advantage of by people with normal brain functions.

[Duncan Grant]

5. Absolutely agree 100%. One can also add organizations, too.

Zero tolerance for homophobia.

And can we take a tougher stance against equivocating "advocates" (I don't support Proposition 8 but I don't support gay marriage...)? :grr:

k&r

[Ellen Forradalom]

6. I am feeling much the same way as you.

Sorry to rain on the BO parade, but BO deliberately distanced himself from the gay community. I knew BO tossed gays overboard last spring with the Donnie McClurkin episode. Shortly thereafter my out & proud boss had a horrifying conversation with a homophobic BO campaign worker when he asked re: BO's stance on gay marriage. BO wouldn't be photographed with Gavin Newsom and he did not appear at Chicago's Pride parade, instead going to the gym or somesuch. BO brought Doug Kmiec, virulent homophobe, on board with his Faith, Family & Values tour. BO's own words were used to support 8 and he did not put a stop to it.

I saw the same signs for women. Overboard without a lifejacket. Exhibit A: The C-word.

I don't know if Hillary could've prevented this disaster but I don't think she would have tossed gays to the wolves in the same way.

I am both sad and livid. And I am furious at my so-called liberal male friends who shrugged off misogyny and homophobia, the former with quit-being-so-sensitive and the latter with not-enough-of-them-to-matter-too-bad.

My focus is only women who support gay rights. 52% of the population, 16% of the representation is an obscenity. But that's a topic for a whole other post.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. I made that vow back in 98

Which is why I refused to give any resources to Gore, Kerry or Obama. I did donate to Kucinich, however.

[JohnnyLib2]

13. Your stand makes sense from here, Lioness.

Using the money (and efforts) is one "weapon." How about some suggestions for others? Seems to me that there are plenty of followers but few visible leaders in this.....

[jonnyblitz]

15. sounds like you are coming around to where I have been for

quite some time. :hug: :hi:

[Zuiderelle]

16. From now on my money goes ONLY to politicians and organizations that will fight for our rights.

I'm with you 100%.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. we got the dem victory we needed. if they dont try to improve our lives

its over.

[FreeState]

17. K&R - not only that Im going to start fundraising for marriage equality when ever I can

I did a search online and Im the only one on my whole street of 50% GLBT folks who gave to No On 8 - Im also the only one in my office of 8 gay men (two of which were married this fall before we voted).

[Chovexani]

19. Ramen.

They don't get another dime from me.

We should not only give money to politicians that work for full equality, we should also give to our local organizations. Lots of them are hurting for cash, especially in the economic downturn.

[mitchtv]

23. Not one red cent

I am also unsubscribing from all thos emails DFA Naral ETC

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. why naral? did they oppose us?

[mitchtv]

34. Well apparently they took care of themselves

4 failed 8 passed, you tell me how that happened' It is essentially a HET group, I want nothing to do with them.

[tekisui]

24. I will join you in that pledge.

[greeneyedboy]

25. Word.

I already made this pledge.

This is about basic human rights.

Never again should a pro-discrimination campaign be able to use talking points from the Democratic ticket in their materials (e.g. http://tinyurl.com/6lnjp5">Obama's words in Yes on 8 flyer . Yes, it's dishonest on the finer point, but not on the big picture.)

[Zhade]

26. Oh, you KNOW that's right.

Not even a question.

[Toasterlad]

31. Dennis Kucinich Was the Only Candidate to Get My Money This Election

And until the rest wise up, that will continue to be the case.

I'll never understand why ANYONE would support someone who was so clearly at odds with them on such a key issue. Settle for? Okay. Support? Never.

[kevinbgoode]

36. I AGREE.

This is the first time I EVER donated to a presidential candidate. And his own remarks declaring that he didn't believe in my fundamental constitutional rights were USED by proponents of Proposition 8 in ads to solicit votes.

[WhollyHeretic]

37. The last couple of elections I have had a lot of struggles trying to come to terms

supporting a candidate that does not support civil rights for all.

[MNBrewer]

39. I said on another thread

that I would not ever again vote for a candidate for ANY office who does not support marriage equality