Yes, Our Pet Issues are Clearly Not Civil Rights Issues

[La Lioness Priyanka]

Today in my morning paper, 2 ecuadorian brothers beaten and one killed because some bigots thought they were gay. Democrats too afraid to go on with gay marriage in the NY senate.

A minority denied equal rights and subject to random violence is clearly not a civil rights issue. It's my pet issue. (like my cat but less cuddly)

http://weblogs.amny.com/entertainment/urbanite/blog/2008/12/_with_democrats_in_control.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6546253

[mondo joe]

1. There is a brand of liberal for whom civil rights associated with gender is not worthwhile.

I've known a number of them. They are people who I know are committed to principles of equality and economic justice.

But when it comes to issues about sexual orientation and gender, they clam up. It's as if these are "icky" issues, or private and not suitable for public discourse.

I know one guy in his 50's who has worked his whole adult life on issues of economic justice - he's been involved in homeless advocacy, unions, war protest and the rest in ways most people will never be.

But I also know that now and then he goes out with friends for a few beers and says nasty shit to waitresses that is pure sexism.

I don't doubt that he in theory supports equal rights for gays, but damned if I've ever heard him say such a thing of his own initiative.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. people act as though commitment to economic justice precludes commitment to social justice

are we really that stupid as a species? two commitments make us flabbergasted?

[mondo joe]

3. My personal take is SOCIAL JUSTICE, which includes civil rights and economic rights,

is the thing.

I actually think a number of liberals came of age at a time when the predominant issues were race and war, and they just got stuckthere and haven't caught up with the issues since then.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. i agree

[mondo joe]

6. Another thing: Whenever I hear "there's no difference" between Dems and Repubs

it's almost always with regard to economics, and almost never civil rights in general or gender issues in specific.

I think of my dad - another dyed in the wool economic liberal - who has been ranting about "no difference" for as long as I can remember. As if access to abortion, or marriage equality are not real issues, as my mother and I keep reminding him.

[Chovexani]

24. It's especially stupid considering

Social and economic justice go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other.

ENDA, being taxed for partner benefits when straight people aren't, etc

[reggie the dog]

18. lots of fake ass "liberals" think people like me

need a forced cure and should go to jail, and that certainly if I sprout a seed I should go to jail for even longer. What can I do, Democrats alienate me because they believe in tyranny of the majority but are the political party most likely to do some kind of wage redistribution whereas the Libertarians all respect my right to grow and consume cannabis but want to privitize schools......

[midnight]

31. Joe you better call him out on his nasty sh@t, or he will keep

doing it!

[mondo joe]

32. He's going to keep doing it, no matter what.

He's very arrogant.

[midnight]

33. Justice trumps arrogance. You and your buddies should

repeat the message until this poor soul sees the light.

[OneBlueSky]

5. according to your source, they were severely beaten, but not killed . . .

although one is in critical condition with severe head injuries . . .

it's just disgusting how this kind of shit continues to happen, egged on by the christian fundies who are so fucking sure that they're right and everyone else is wrong . . . I hope they catch the perpetrators of this horrific act and throw the book at them . . . several books, in fact . . .

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. he died today

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6546253

[JackBeck]

9. On last night's news before bed

I saw that the one brother was waiting for his parents to arrive from Ecuador so that they could take the beaten brother off of life support.

What kind of country do we live in where you can't even publically show affection to your own brother, without fear that someone will take your life?

Now if you will excuse me, I have to attend another one issue meeting in the conference room. I'll be back in an hour.

[closeupready]

21. Yes, that is EXACTLY the kind of country we live in, where ANY intermale affection

is bad. People scoff when I say that the United States is a deeply homophobic country, but it is, and stories like this only strengthen my view, IMO. Along with the way cats' rights are considered more important to lawmakers than gay rights.

[jonnyblitz]

22. when I was in the navy and we would travel to other countries

they constantly had to tell us before our ship would pull in to a foreign port that in other cultures close, male family and friends often hold hands or put their arms around each other when walking down the street and it doesn't necessarily mean they are gay so PLEASE don't mess with them.

[closeupready]

26. Is that right? That's quite interesting, thanks for sharing that.

As though they KNEW that American guys would find that troubling. I mean, who is the pervert here when the whole world enjoys warm intermale relationships and US men do not (generally)?

Was that long ago, or when was this, exactly?

[jonnyblitz]

27. this was in the late 80's early 90's. nt

[Mabus]

14. I'm at a loss for words

That is just so fucked up.

K&R for visibility and support.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

30. I'm Sorry, Lionesspriyanka......

my prayers and thoughts are with you.:grouphug:

[Maven]

8. I wonder if this will get 25+ recs like some other POS thread I could mention.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. unlikely, pet issues and all.

[mondo joe]

15. I'm grateful for THIS thread. I had a "hmm" moment with the other thread and thought

I might have been oversensitive.

Good to have confirmation that I wasn't.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. that person is an idiot. an insensitive, fairly uncomplex idiot. nt

[WhollyHeretic]

36. I was a little disappointed that more people didn't see through the point he was trying to make.

It was a little fuzzy at first but became abundantly clear, especially since he refused to respond to anyone calling him on it. I was the fourth post in that thread and got no response from the OP.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. people saw through it. they just didnt care or it suited their purpose. nt

[msongs]

11. churches sow the seeds, and the beatings are the result. nt

[donco6]

12. Just don't mention the church.

That's been the most mind-blowing thread to me. How vociferously people defend the church in the face of BLATANT UNEQUIVOCAL homophobia! And to have them attack US for speaking out against them, calling us Catholic bashers.

I need a shower after wading in there again.

I hadn't heard the brother died. Terrible. But, if it's like most other gay bashings, the guys will never be caught. It's not like anyone really cares if we live or die, anyway.

[reggie the dog]

19. the pope basically came out and said "fags be damned"

I guess he is an expert and all so he would know best when god fucked up creating people and he was put there by god to fix god's mistakes. Being an athiest though, I cannot understand why the pope is not arrested for because of our anti hate speech laws whenever he steps foot in French territory.

[bluedawg12]

13. I noticed some "liberals" failed to list civil rights at all on their to do list.

That was very revealing yesterday.

[keepCAblue]

17. K&R....could not agree more. Our movement is about so much MORE than same sex marriage.

In fact, what the passage of prop 8 and equally vile bans in Florida, Arizona and Arkansas did was empower the bigots and bashers. Hate crimes against GLBTQI since Nov. 4th are UP. The world is far less safe for GLBTQIs today as a result of Nov. 4th.

I have been standing at busy intersections since Nov. 4th, with other civil rights activists, with our large banners urging the repeal of prop 8. At first I was shocked by the number and tone of drivers who hurled profanities and the "f" word at us as they drove by. The hate in their voices is palpable and I have no doubt that their fuming hate and their public boldness were churned as a result of the Yes on 8 "victory"...The passage of the anti-gay bans has given such people a sense that they now have free license to verbally and physically attack us.

Our movement is about so much more than same-sex marriage. It is about our equal protection under the law; our right to dignity and full humanity; our constitutional guarantee to live and love without fear of assault, persecution or oppression.

[jonnyblitz]

20. it's all part of the "shut up and don't criticize Obama" thing going

on here.

[FreeState]

25. Unfortunately it goes back farther than that

GLBT citizens have been pushed to the back burner over and over again - no matter who has been in charge. Until we get a GLBT person with real political power were not going to get much accomplished.

As for Obama - well I like a lot about him and Im skeptical of some of him and some of him makes me upset still. Im personally very disappointed that he has not said anything specific to the GLBT community about whats going on now after the election. Surely he knows the GLBT movement is upset and energized and looking for help - but he has not once said boo to us after election night. 200 people picket inside a building and he speaks out for them - hundreds of thousands marched on Nov 15 and he did not utter a word. Its just disappointing to me.

[jonnyblitz]

28. true, but the thread which spawned this thread is from a few days

ago and is part of the "shut up and stop criticizing Obama" atmosphere but, generally speaking, you are correct.

[Irishonly]

23. K&R

with me crying. I hadn't heard the news. I am ashamed that my country is so guilty of hate crimes.

As far as the civil rights of all, it's always been a no brainer for me. I grew up in the midwest and was born in the 1950s. I didn't meet a gay person until I was in college and I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about.

Thanksgiving almost turned into a war zone here. Anyone who knows me know you don't infringe on people's civil rights, I believe in separation of church and state and that our founding fathers would be turning in their graves if they knew what kind of crap has been going on. I am also protective of animals but that is another story.

I know have a sil who will probably never speak to me again and I just can't make myself feel badly about it. I knew she was religious right and I try not to talk politics. Poor dumb woman brought up both prop 8 and 4 and got an earful. She kept trying to tell me she could only vote the way the Bible taught and I let loose about value voters and how dangerous they were to the freedom of all Americans. She got mad but I was madder. She questioned my Christianity and I told her that I would apologize as soon as she could find me a direct quote about anything Christ said about being gay and her quoting the OT was hypocritical since there was so much cherry picking. I feel better.

[mitchtv]

29. yeah I heard earlier now tell me the odds

that the police will vigorously pursue the perps.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. on the plus side the dem leader dropped placating the 3 dems in the senate that

were causing all this trouble

[Orsino]

35. Until America gets over its own shame about sex...

...we won't ever admit that GLBT rights are human rights.