Vaccines and Autism: a new scientific review

[mhatrw]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20049118-10391695.html

For all those who've declared the autism-vaccine debate over - a new scientific review begs to differ. It considers a host of peer-reviewed, published theories that show possible connections between vaccines and autism.

The article in the Journal of Immunotoxicology is entitled "Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes--A review." The author is Helen Ratajczak, surprisingly herself a former senior scientist at a pharmaceutical firm. Ratajczak did what nobody else apparently has bothered to do: she reviewed the body of published science since autism was first described in 1943. Not just one theory suggested by research such as the role of MMR shots, or the mercury preservative thimerosal; but all of them.

Ratajczak's article states, in part, that "Documented causes of autism include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis following vaccination . Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain."

The article goes on to discuss many potential vaccine-related culprits, including the increasing number of vaccines given in a short period of time. "What I have published is highly concentrated on hypersensitivity, Ratajczak told us in an interview, "the body's immune system being thrown out of balance."

more ...

[Archae]

1. This article is bullshit.

http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia130.html

[villager]

2. "This article is bullshit since it questions my fixed notions"

n/t

[sharp_stick]

6. No the article is bullshit

because it uses one of the favorite scams of the anti-vax crowd. Namely that you can't prove it wasn't the vaccines that caused the kids autism.

Always a popular stance taken by snake oil salesmen and their gullible buyers.

[HuckleB]

23. Exactly!

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=11899#more-11899

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mhatrw]

20. Just two minutes after the OP, the skepdic response arrives.

LOL

[Ian David]

3. Nice try. Now, shut-up and vaccinate your kids before they kill someone.

Ratajczak agrees that nobody has proven DNA causes autism; but argues nobody has shown the opposite, and scientifically, the case is still open.

This is interesting logic, bordering on the argument to ignorance: since nobody has proved DNA in vaccines causes autism, DNA in vaccines causes autism. In any case, speculating about something and then noting that it hasn't been disproved, is not telling us much of interest. We could speculate that food dyes cause autism and note that nobody's proved they don't, but what would we have proved by such a claim? Nothing, except that we can speculate. Why would we do this? Well, as Ratajczak says: "I'm retired now. I can write what I want." Actually, she can say what she wants in an interview with a writer for CBS, but that doesn't mean what she says would get past peer review. She speculates in the interview, but not in the published paper, as to how DNA might cause autism (the following quote is verbatim from Attkisson's article; there is nothing like this claim in the article published in Immunotoxicology):

http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia130.html

[Ian David]

4. I started getting pubes about the same time I started fifth grade

Therefore, something in fifth grade must cause pubic hair.

[sharp_stick]

5. It was the vaccines!!!!

vaccines cause pubes, run for the hills.

[Mnemosyne]

8. When will it be understood that it is not the vaccines that is the concern, but

the multitude of shit they throw into the vaccines; at least that is the only concern I have found or have myself. :shrug:

And I did vaccinate my daughter, and she her two boys, in case anyone wants to attack. I have lived with the effects of mercury toxicity for most of my life, my family too. Mercury should not be allowed anywhere near the human body, imho.

Skeptics here, please check out this video from the University of Calgary study on the effect of mercury on dendrites in a snail brain and tell me that it is not frightening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo

[Ian David]

9. Nobody is suggesting you need to vaccinate your snails. n/t

[Mnemosyne]

14. I'm worried about what zombie snails will eat when all the brain dendrites are gone.

[sharp_stick]

10. Keep in mind a couple of things

This is 1uM or 1X10^-6M of inorganic mercury added directly to plain growth media at the growth cone of a single neurite.

The only vaccines on the market in the US anyhow, containing any thiomersal (an organomercury compound, not free mercury) are multi dose vials of flu vaccine. Assuming you get this once a year the most mercury you would put into your system is equivalent to about 25ug (~ 1/2 by weight of thiomersal).

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1

25ug = 2.5X10^-6 grams. If you are giving this to a 20lb baby (who would only get a 1/2 dose in reality) and also assuming that body water is about 50% you would be dosing into 10lb of water (4.5kg or 4,500g) equaling a total diluted dose of 2.7X10^-8M or 0.003uM or 3X10^-9. This is very rough, we can get into intra-cellular vs extra-cellular body water but then you have to calculate how much of the substance can cross the cell membranes, are they held in the cell or are they free to come and go. Gets very complicated very fast and usually doesn't make that much of a difference in the end.

This does not take into account that the mercury in thiomersal is metabolized to ethylmercury not inorganic mercury which does not bioaccumulate and which does bind to carrier proteins thereby seriously reducing it's bioavailability. The 1/2 life is about 15 days I think, which is a significant period of time but with such a low bioavailability not a concern.

Don't confuse ethyl mercury with it's much more toxic cousin methyl mercury, a lot of people do.

Also keep in mind that at least up until 2002, when I worked down the hall from Dr. Syed in Calgary, he maintained that he wasn't going to have his mercury fillings removed. Dr. Lorscheider, who I don't really know, said he was going to have his changed out, I'm not sure if he ever did.

The fact that there are no papers trying this with organic mercury leads me to believe that either it was tried and didn't work or people who understand mercury toxicity and neuroscience better than I know it won't lead to neurite stripping.

The paper this video accompanies is found at:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11277574 but you may not have access without a subscription, I'm not sure.

[Mnemosyne]

12. I appreciate that information, sharp_stick. Off to

google the doctors you mentioned. Thank you.

[sharp_stick]

17. Here you go

This is Naweed's lab
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~neuro/syed/welcome.html

and this is something a bit newer from hime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auMhj4RvRcE

It looks like Dr. Lorscheider has retired since I left there.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pp/faculty/emeritus/fritz-lorscheider

[Mnemosyne]

21. Thank you much, s_s. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

11. Most vaccines nowadays don't contain mercury...

and the MMR never did.

[Mnemosyne]

13. I do understand that. I remember when it started being removed. Thank you for replying. n/t

[Confusious]

16. It's always something in the vaccines

Now it's human DNA. When do the aliens show up?

[HuckleB]

24. Say what?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=11899#more-11899

[EvolveOrConvolve]

15. cbsnews.com is where I go

for all my science related stuff. Especially when there's news on a hack like Ratajczak. How long 'til she's selling some product to uneducated masses?

[laconicsax]

18. You know, I was just wondering if you were still around.

Won the lottery yet? A probability teacher I think you knowtells me that each time you don't win, your odds of winning increase.

[laconicsax]

19. Dupe. n/t

[Name removed]

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