Can prayer help surgery?

[n2doc]

The American Journal of Surgery has published a transcript of a presidential address titled, "Can prayer help surgery?", and my first thought was that that was absolutely brilliant — some guy was roped into giving a big speech at a convention, and he picked a topic where he could stand up, say "NO," and sit back down again. If he wanted to wax eloquent, maybe he could add a "Don't be silly" to his one word address.

But a reader sent me a copy of this paper, and I was wrong. The author spent four pages saying "Yes". It flies off to cloud cuckoo land in the very first sentence, which compares prayer to "chemotherapy and radiation as adjuvant therapies to surgery, working synergistically to cure cancers", and then justifies it by pointing out that patients do internet searches for alternatives to surgery, and prayer is a popular result. So, right there in the first paragraph, we get the Argument from Extravagant Assertion and the Argument from Google. It's not a good start.

This was given at a professional conference, though, so he has to talk about the data, and this is where it starts getting funny. He explains that there sure have been a lot of prayer studies lately, 855 in the past 15 years, and with 46 prospective randomized series in the Cochrane database, which he summarizes succinctly:

Equal healing benefit has been demonstrated whether the prayer is Hindu or Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant, Jewish or Muslim.

That's the way to spin the data into something positive. Unfortunately, this is the happy peak of his foray into actually looking at the data, putting a cheerful universalist twist on the actual results, which he later grudgingly admits are non-existent. When they all show no benefit, that is equal benefit, after all.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/04/can_prayer_help_surgery.php

[Peregrine Took]

1. I think it can and it sure doesn't hurt to try it. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

2. How do you know it doesn't hurt?

Where is the evidence for that? Oh wait, you aren't going to claim that the evidence that it does NOTHING proves it does no harm, are you?

[Buzz Clik]

5. Well, from the article:

"Can medical science prove the benefit of prayer to im- prove the result of an operation? I refer you to the latest Cochrane review on this topic.5 This 69-page manuscript is a meta-analysis of 10 prospective randomized studies on intercessory prayer to help the efforts of modern medicine involving over 7,000 patients. Some studies in this meta- analysis showed benefit, while others did not. The conclusion of the authors was that there is no indisputable proof that intercessory prayer lowers surgical complications or improves mortality rates.
"

That pretty strongly suggests no harm.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. It shows no benefit.

And your quote does not address the issue of harm. But if you accept the 'no benefit' analysis, why are you praying? If you do not accept the evidence, how do you know it does no harm?

[Buzz Clik]

9. Uh. Ok. You seem to have a helluva lot more passion for this than I. You win. I quit.

:wtf:

[Warpy]

14. There is evidence that being prayed for by another party does hurt

Heart patients were followed and found there was higher morbidity and mortality in the group that was receiving the attentions of the prayerful and that they went up when the person knew s/he was being prayed for.

As for praying for oneself, I don't think that study has been done. If prayer relaxes and centers a person, it likely doesn't do harm and might even help by reducing those stress hormones. Prayer begging for mercy from a vengeful god will likely have the opposite effect. Those are just guesses, though, because that study has not been done, either.

[Deep13]

3. The Templeton study found that it can hurt to try.

People for whom no prayers were said and people who did not know prayers were said for them were about the same. People who know they were being prayed for did noticeably worse. Perhaps it's a kind of performance anxiety.

In any case, I'd rather the medical community spend its attention and energy on finding better treatments and improving care overall than wasting their time praying.

[cleanhippie]

16. I think it cannot and its a waste of time. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

4. Plenty of studies have demonstrated the importance of positive attitudes, laughter, etc.

I guess it was time for a study on prayer.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. There have been dozens of such studies

most famously the double blind one funded by the templeton foundation, a study that inarguably showed no positive effect.

[Buzz Clik]

8. Dozens? I hadn't heard of any. But, I also would never read one given the opportunity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

According to the NYT, there had been 10 previous studies. Maybe that number bumped up significantly in the past few years.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. sorry. "dozen" not "dozens"

your post indicated you thought there weren't any such studies. There are. They demonstrate no effect.

[jwirr]

10. I would say that it is the faith in prayer that heals because of the confidence

it gives to the patient. That would explain why all forms of prayer help.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. except there is zero evidence that it helps

other than that, you make an excellent point.

[jwirr]

13. Faith is not faith if it needs evidence to back it up!

:hug:

[Mumble]

15. You can be confident that you will heal without praying too.

[jwirr]

18. Of course.

[cleanhippie]

17. "That would explain why all forms of prayer help." - Uh, no study has EVER concluded that

in fact, every one states that prayer does NOT help. At all.