'Simulated' Needles Just as Effective as Real Acupuncture in Treating Nausea in Cancer Patients

[cleanhippie]

'Simulated' Needles Just as Effective as Real Acupuncture in Treating Nausea in Cancer Patients, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 26, 2011) — Simulated acupuncture -- sometimes referred to as placebo -- is just as beneficial as real acupuncture for treating nausea in cancer patients undergoing radiotherapy, according to a study from Karolinska Institutet and Linköping University in Sweden. Patients, who received only standard care including medications for nausea, felt significant more nausea than patients in both the acupuncture groups.

"The beneficial effects seem not to come from the traditional acupuncture method, but probably from the patients' positive expectations and the extra care that the treatment entails," says Anna Enblom, physiotherapist and researcher at the Osher Centre for Integrative Medicine at Karolinska Institutet. "The patients communicated with the physiotherapists administering the acupuncture, received tactile stimulation and were given extra time for rest and relaxation."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110324104406.htm

[Sanity Claws]

1. Simulated needles are not a placebo

Chinese medicine recognizes both acupuncture and acupressure. The simulated needles sound like acupressure in which pressure is applied to meridian points.
The protocol sounds like a test for acupressure and not proof that the beneficial effects are merely the result of the patients' positive expectations.

[cleanhippie]

2. The researchers disagree with you.

[Sanity Claws]

3. I already know that

I challenge the logic of their conclusion.

[cleanhippie]

6. You raise a good point.

Perhaps you should ask them just that. I would like to know what they would have to say.

[eShirl]

4. maybe both are placebo

the mind and belief are very powerful

[Sanity Claws]

5. A lot of things are maybes

I'm just pointing out that the study does not support the conclusion.

[cleanhippie]

7. to be fair, you don't THINK the study supports the conclusion.

but it is a valid point.

[trotsky]

9. Acupressure, as its disciples promote it, is a little more than...

just lightly touching the skin to simulate a needle stick.

[AndyTiedye]

8. How Does One "Simulate" Sticking a Needle In?

[Celebration]

10. I am always happy with studies like this

It seems like a win-win

From the article

"The results show that the patients who had received genuine or simulated acupuncture felt much less nauseous than those who had received standard care only."

This shows that acupuncture is valuable, but that the particular protocol used may not be that important. Procedures with large "so called" placebo effects are very desirable, since they most likely enhance the healing experience.

[cleanhippie]

11. I disagree that it "shows that acupuncture is valuable".

But what it DOES show, is that ANYTHING can convince someone it can help them, even when its not that "thing" at all.

It not the acupuncture, its the positive mindset.

[trotsky]

12. And, as this study further demonstrates...

the bolted-on nonsense of "chi" and "meridians" has nothing to do with it.

[Celebration]

13. as long as people feel better

they are happy. It is positive that acupuncture may either 1. have a large placebo effect, or 2. the so called placebo effect is no placebo at all, but something more like reiki or acupressure.

The particular mechanism--mind/body, chi, whatever does not matter to the patient as long as it is effective.

That's why this study makes me happy. People are feeling better when they get acupuncture, no matter the mechanism.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. That really depends on what it is supposed to be treating.

There are some injuries that require resting the injury to let the body heal.

[Celebration]

15. Rest!!

:thumbsup: