There is another major measles outbreak in Europe. The WHO reports

[Ian David]

Consequences
Published by Steven Novella under Science and Medicine,Skepticism

There is another major measles outbreak in Europe. The WHO reports:

The World Health Organization said Thursday that France had 4,937 reported cases of measles between January and March – compared with 5,090 cases during all of 2010. In all, more than 6,500 cases have been reported in 33 European nations.

That is four times the rate of 2010. I know – these reports are almost getting boring. The shock has worn off – we have come to accept that previously conquered diseases (at least reduced to minimal cases without outbreaks) have come back. The cause seems clear – outbreaks occur where herd immunity has been lost due to vaccine non-compliance. Fewer people are getting vaccinated, and not much fewer. But the numbers are falling below herd immunity levels in pockets. When vaccination rates fall below a certain level, then infectious organisms are able to spread and cause an outbreak.

The anti-vaccine movement has successfully spread unwarranted fear of vaccines, resulting in the compromise of herd immunity. There is a toll of morbidity and mortality associated with this movement.

<snip>

Despite the strides the skeptical movement has made in the last decade, I am still frequently asked why I waste my time with the whole skepticism thing. There are many reasons, but perhaps chief among them is the understanding that pseudoscience and quackery have consequences – increasingly dire consequences, for the individual, for any society, and for human civilization. Measles outbreaks are only the tip of the iceberg. The skeptical movement endeavors to be a force in the other direction – to make the world a more rational place, to increase the level of critical thinking , and to keep science in its rightful place as the best method for understanding the world and finding practical solutions to our many problems.

More:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=3160

[defendandprotect]

1. Our health care and "Big Pharma" are a disaster of lies, side effects and exhorbitant profits ..

but in vaccines it's a blessed industry????

We have to return to the concept of NATURAL IMMUNITIES -- passed on by

the mother in breast feeding --

Return to natural based plants as our medicines -- and give the chemical

industry a push off the capitalistic cliff!!

[MineralMan]

2. Yah, good luck with all that. Vaccination works. It's proven.

Please keep your unvaccinated kids away from other kids.

[defendandprotect]

4. The only thing that is "proven" is that natural immunity works -- we have no idea

what these vaccines may be doing a generation or two later --

in harming immune systems of children -- or anything else.

What these vaccines are doing is creating increasing severe outbreaks

of these childhood diseases.

What are the official side effects of vaccines -- is the public even ever told?

It's not like Big Pharm gives this stuff away for free, is it?

[MineralMan]

6. Your post is all over the place.

First, many of the vaccines have been tested now for decades. Tetanus, smallpox (no longer needed, since vaccination has eradicated it), Polio and others.

Show me some reliable source that says that vaccines harm children's immune system. Note the word "reliable," please.

Actually, the vaccines reduce outbreaks dramatically. Whooping cough, for example, is almost non-existent today. Tetanus? When was the last case you heard of. Polio? Who has contracted polio on your city in the past 20 years? I could go on and on. Your statement is simply incorrect.

The potential side effects of every vaccine are included in the patient information papers you should be looking at when you get vaccinated. If you're not reading them, then you're being foolish. Even the flu shot requires that you fill out a questionaire and sign it to demonstrate that you have read and understood it.

What things do you get for free? I can't think of any. Not even the air. Some of my taxes go to keep it reasonably breathable.

So, do you have any more comments for me to analyze? Those were all incorrect.

[defendandprotect]

11. Capitalism and exploitation for profit are faultless re vaccines -- ?

These capitalists never produce a bad batch --

never lie to the public?

What are the huge profits of "Big Pharma" -- and what is their criminal record re

defrauding government --

What of the huge profits of "Big Pharma" here in America?

Meanwhile, based on drugs and medical research which THE PUBLIC FUNDS!!


ANOTHER AUTISM CASE WINS IN VACCINE COURT

By Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.



But last week, the parents of yet another child with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) were awarded a lump sum of more than $810,000 (plus an estimated $30-40,000 per year for autism services and care) in compensation by the Court, which ruled that the measels-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine had caused acute brain damage that led to his autism spectrum disorder.

In his conclusion, Special Master Abell ruled that Petitioners had proven that the MMR had directly caused a brain inflammation illness called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which, in turn, had caused the autism spectrum disorder PDD-NOS in the child:

The Court found that Bailey's ADEM was both caused-in-fact and proximately caused by his vaccination. It is well-understood that the vaccination at issue can cause ADEM, and the Court found, based upon a full reading and hearing of the pertinent facts in this case, that it did actually cause the ADEM. Furthermore, Bailey's ADEM was severe enough to cause lasting, residual damage, and retarded his developmental progress, which fits under the generalized heading of Pervasive Developmental Delay, or PDD . The Court found that Bailey would not have suffered this delay but for the administration of the MMR vaccine, and that this chain of causation was... a proximate sequence of cause and effect leading inexorably from vaccination to Pervasive Developmental Delay.

The Bailey decision is not an isolated ruling. We now know of at least two other successful ADEM cases argued in Vaccine Court. More significantly, an explosive investigation by CBS News has found that since 1988, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often in the millions of dollars, to thirteen hundred and twenty two families whose children suffered brain damage from vaccines. In many of these cases, the government paid out awards following a judicial finding that vaccine injury lead to the child's autism spectrum disorder. In each of these cases, the plaintiffs' attorneys made the same tactical decision made by Bailey Bank's lawyer, electing to opt out of the highly charged Omnibus Autism Proceedings and argue their autism cases in the regular vaccine court. In many other successful cases, attorneys elected to steer clear of the hot button autism issue altogether and seek recovery instead for the underlying brain damage that caused their client's autism.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-david-kirby/vaccine-court-autism-deba_b_169673.html


and conclusion --

The Vaccine Court, in other words, seems quite willing to award millions of dollars in taxpayer funded compensation to vaccine-injured autistic children, so long as they don't have to call the injury by the loaded term "autism."


And, I guess next step is getting some of the side effects of vaccines posted --

you didn't seem to want to --




PS: And, certainly members of our military have been harmed by vaccines --

[HuckleB]

74. Newsflash:

Childhood Vaccinations and ASD: No Relationship Between Number or Schedule of Vaccinations and Diagnostic Outcome or Severity
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/04/childhood-vaccinations-and-asd-no-relationship-between-number-or-schedule-of-vaccinations-and-diagnostic-outcome-or-severity/

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. You do recall smallpox being ELIMINATED through vaccination, don't you?

Breastfeeding did NOTHING to stop smallpox - if it could, then it would have been eliminated thousands of years ago.

As with all other infectious childhood diseases.

A breastfed child may receives SOME immunity benefits through his mother, but the idea that it is a panacea is just plain silly.

The truth behind 'natural immunity' is called natural selection - those few who have natural immunity, survive, and those who do not, die.

[defendandprotect]

69. You do recall the Native Americans were FREE from smallpox and such diseases ....

until we transmitted smallpox to them -- in fact, ON PURPOSE!!

Smallpox epidemic ravages Native Americans on the northwest ...
Smallpox epidemic ravages Native Americans on the northwest coast of North America in the ... much pitted with the Small Pox, which Disorder in all probability is the Cause ...
www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&... - Cached


•History of smallpox: For centuries, smallpox affected political and social agendas. Smallpox epidemics plagued Europe and Asia until 1796, when Edward Jenner tested his theory of disease protection. He did this by inoculating a young boy with material obtained from a milkmaid who was infected with the milder cowpox virus. The success of that experiment led to the development of a vaccine (from vacca, the Latin word for cow). Afterward, the incidence of smallpox infection in Europe steadily declined.

This was transmitting NATURAL material from someone with immunity to someone else --

Milkmaids provide a lesson still that it is our environment and immune systems which protect us.


◦In the Americas, smallpox severely weakened the native population. They had never been exposed to smallpox, which the European explorers brought with them to the Americas in the 1600s. The British forces at Fort Pitt (later to become Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) purposefully gave smallpox-contaminated blankets and goods to Native Americans during the French and Indian Wars in an attempt to weaken the Native American resistance to colonial expansion. Due to this and through natural spread, the epidemic that followed killed half of the Native American population.



•Are previous vaccinations still protective? Routine vaccination of the general population in the United States stopped after 1980. Vaccination of military personnel was discontinued in 1989. Researchers estimate that vaccinated people retain immunity for about 10 years, although the duration has never been fully evaluated. Therefore, the current population in the United States is considered vulnerable to smallpox. About 42% of the US population is younger than 30 years and has never been vaccinated.


One of the wisest things we ever did in the US was in suggesting that young girls gain

exposure to German measles before they reached maturity and childbearing ages.

This gave a natural protection --


Another example of weakened immune systems is cancer -- we have thousands of cancer cells

traveling within our bodies at any given time -- it is the weakening of the immune system

which spreads disease.

Additionally re cancer, it is thought that the eating of animal/dairy products creates

situations where this animal fat is stored on the body because the body really has no use

for it - and that our immune systems cannot detect cancer cells within those areas --

and therefore cannot combat them.


Re your comments --

Breastfeeding did NOTHING to stop smallpox - if it could, then it would have been eliminated thousands of years ago.

As with all other infectious childhood diseases.

A breastfed child may receives SOME immunity benefits through his mother, but the idea that it is a panacea is just plain silly.

The truth behind 'natural immunity' is called natural selection - those few who have natural immunity, survive, and those who do not, die.

We, of course, don't know about the Milkmaid and what immunities she may have passed on to

her own children via breastfeeding.

A child which receives immunity via breastmilk then proceeds to develop their own immunity!

But, again, when we create unhealthful living situations

we can overwhelm our immune systems.

[laconicsax]

70. Thanks for demonstrating that you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you know how the smallpox vaccine was developed?

Do you understand how vaccines work?

Do you understand the reason why it's better to vaccinate rather than infect?

Do you really think that it's better for millions to die from preventable disease?

Do you really think that it's better for millions to be paralyzed from preventable disease?

Do you really think that it's better for millions to be permanently disabled from preventable disease?

Do you really want to return to the days when as many as 25% of all children died from preventable disease?

Do you have any idea what the consequences of relying on "natural immunity" would be?

[LeftishBrit]

26. No, natural immunity does *not* always work, any more than vaccines *always* work

Apart from the fact that the diseases can kill you before you have a chance to develop immunity, people have had childhood diseases twice.

And many vaccines have been extremely successful. Smallpox has been eliminated. Polio has been eliminated in most parts of the world.

'we have no idea what these vaccines may be doing a generation or two later --'


Um, the polio vaccine has been around for two or three generations, and the smallpox vaccine for many generations. There has been plenty of opportunity to observe the effects over the generations of such vaccines.

If vaccines cause epidemics of childhood diseases, why are such epidemics so much commoner in countries with limited access to vaccines?

'What are the official side effects of vaccines -- is the public even ever told?'

Of course we are told. All vaccines come with their lists of possible, though rare, side effects.

'It's not like Big Pharm gives this stuff away for free, is it?'

Pharma should certainly be prevented from profiteering on essential vaccines; and no child should be deprived of a vaccine because they and their countries are poor. The real scandal is that so many children still die, mostly in poor countries, of diseases that could be easily *prevented*. But that does not mean that the vaccines don't work; just that some people sadly don't have access to them!

[defendandprotect]

33. Of course natural immunity works -- when was breastfeeding interrupted???

Pre-polio --

What we do know about America without doubt is that we continue to invent

new diseases based on our ignorance -- !!

[laconicsax]

35. You do realize that breastfeeding doesn't prevent polio, right?

Vaccination however, does.

[defendandprotect]

42. Who would know? But we do know the outbreaks came as breastfeeding was ended --

Rocket fuel chemical found in mothers' milk - Health - Women ...
... water supplies in 35 states and ... whether mothers should have their breast milk ... Jump to related. Women's health, Drinking water, Rocket fuel, Cal...
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7025323 - Cached.

Elites/right wing have long been after breastfeeding trying to destroy it --

Why? Hormones and chemicals in breastmilk that you benefit from into your 80's!!

Breastmilk has still not yet been entirely studied/analyzed --


What we do know is that "Big Pharma" is based on capitalist concepts -- i.e.,

medical care for profit.

And "Big Pharma" have been our worst abusers of public confidence and government trust.

No different from anything else that capitalism does -- and it's suicidal.

[laconicsax]

45. Are we now talking about capitalism?

Polio has been around for millennia. There were also small pockets of outbreaks in the US in the mid-19th century, when everyone was still breastfeeding.

What on Earth are you talking about?

[defendandprotect]

49. What we're talking about now ...

is IGNORE --

Bye --

[HuckleB]

51. Awwwwwwwwww.

Your BS was shown for what it was, so you throw an "IGNORE" tantrum.

:rofl:

[NickB79]

75. The first large outbreaks began over a CENTURY before breastfeeding began to wane

http://polio.emedtv.com/polio/polio-history.html

"The history of polio begins with records from antiquity mentioning crippling diseases compatible with polio. Michael Underwood first described a debility of the lower extremities in children that was recognizable as poliomyelitis in England in 1789. The first polio outbreaks in Europe were reported in the early 19th century, and polio outbreaks were first reported in the United States in 1843."

[LeftishBrit]

59. The whole world isn't America.

Other countries use vaccines too. And our mediaeval, and ancient Roman/Greek, and prehistoric ancestors generally died much younger than people do now. Present-day hunter-gatherer communities do not have very long life expectancies on average.

Natural immunity does *not* work against *new* viruses - and new viruses come into existence all the time; and did so long before vaccines, e.g. the Black Death.

And while in the past people were breastfed for longer than is usual nowadays, this means they were breastfed until the age of 2 or 3 - not for their whole lives. If the latter had been the case, no one would have been able to have more than one or two children, and this was clearly not the case.

And polio has been around for a long time; there are Ancient Egyptian pictures of people with polio.

Do you want 25% of children to die before the age of 5 just to spite Big Pharma? - because this is a typical mortality rate in places that don't have access to vaccines and modern medicine.

[laconicsax]

63. Quiet, foreigner!

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

67. And other countries using vaccines also have autism rates rising .....

Re this ...

Natural immunity does *not* work against *new* viruses - and new viruses come into existence all the time; and did so long before vaccines, e.g. the Black Death.

You need to be asking yourself -- and our medical community needs to be asking -- why are

Americans so ill. Why do we continue to generate new illnesses, viruses, diseases?

If you want to talk about the Black Death then you have to ask yourself what conditions

caused it --

The Christian Crusades/Inquisition -- hundreds of years of war -- produced not only an

imbalance in the population caused by male deaths on battlefields -- but also brought wealth

to females/widows who had rights of inheritance of that time. All of this increased jealousy

and hatred for females --

Allegedly the Plague was carried by rats -- and women ask -- "Where were the cats?"

For the answer to that, look to the Witchburnings.

The Black Death: Bubonic Plague
The Black Death: Bubonic Plague: In the early 1330s an outbreak of deadly bubonic plague occurred in China. The bubonic plague mainly affects rodents, but ...
www.themiddleages.net/plague.html - Cached


The inquisition provided methodologies and ideologies that supported the witch hunts.

The Medieval Inquisition (12-14th centuries): The investigative judicial system set up by the medieval Western Latin "Catholic" Church to eliminate the threat of heretics to orthodox Christianity. Similar to the later Spanish Inquisition and Roman Inquisition, judges were authorized in secret proceedings to investigate, prosecute, judge, and sentence accused people who had no legal counsel. Thousands of condemned victims were executed over the centuries, often by public burning. Combined with preaching by mendicant orders (Dominicans and Franciscans) and even crusades (especially in the South of France), most heresies were eliminated or marginalized by 1400. During the 14th century, though, the authors of manuals on carrying out the inquisition, and various investigations began to become interested in sorcery and witchcraft. The methods of the medieval inquisition were then often carried over into the witch hunts.

Black Death (1347-1359): A great plague that swept through Europe killing as much as a third of the population in three years. The shock helped to spur the rise of modernity. Some, though, blamed this plague, and others that followed for the next several hundred years, on witches.

and here we are with capitalism being introduced --

Commercial Revolution (1350-1650): the invention of the practice of capitalism helped to spur economic growth in Western Europe, making that region one of the wealthiest areas on the planet by 1650. But the inequalities created by economic change (job loss, more fluid transfer of wealth, rise in status of some groups but not others) may have created insecurities that helped promote the witch hunts.

http://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/witch/witchlist.html



I'll also take the time to answer these confusions ....


And while in the past people were breastfed for longer than is usual nowadays, this means they were breastfed until the age of 2 or 3 - not for their whole lives. If the latter had been the case, no one would have been able to have more than one or two children, and this was clearly not the case.

Where have you gotten this mistaken idea that natural immunities disappear when breastfeeding is

ended?

And, let me assure you that while breastfeeding may be somewhat of a protection against a new

pregnancy it is by NO means entirely reliable. You also seem to misunderstand female CHOICE --

females most often decided to have but one child -- when they chose to produce a second child --

it was heralded!!

While I'm here, let me also make clear that Nature is Pro-choice --

Nature provided myriad plants in every corner of the world for women -- as birth control -- and

also to interrupt conception -- i.e., to abort a pregancy. Nature provided plants which could

increase fertility -- and to totally end fertility at any time a female wished.

Most of these plants and information about them -- called WICCA or "Women's wisdom" were

destroyed by patriarchy. Some of the knowledge and some of the plants survive -- RU486 is

based on a plant/fruit which when eaten for seven days keeps a fertilized egg from attaching

to the lining of the womb.


Ah, yes -- and POLIO . . .


And polio has been around for a long time; there are Ancient Egyptian pictures of people with polio.

This is not true -- see the information below --

And, again, any disease is dependent upon existing and spreading due to WEAKENED IMMUNE

SYSTEMS.

ALSO NOTE: A baby would receive antibodies to the polio virus from its mother which provided protection from the virus until the babies own immune system was capable of creating its own antibodies to the virus.


Do you want 25% of children to die before the age of 5 just to spite Big Pharma? - because this is a typical mortality rate in places that don't have access to vaccines and modern medicine.

Look to the environment and living conditions --

How healthy can American children be when 25% of them are now living in poverty?

When Obama/Congress are cutting food stamps -- when large numbers of our children are homeless?




----------------

History of poliomyelitis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Early history|Epidemics|Historical...|Vaccine...The history of poliomyelitis (polio) infections extends into prehistory. Although major polio epidemics were unknown before the 20th century, the disease has caused paralysis and death...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_poliomyelitis - Cached

polio (pathology) :: Polio through history -- Britannica ...
From minor outbreaks to epidemics. Polio epidemics did not begin to occur until the latter part of the 19th century, but evidence indicates that it is an ancient disease.
www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/467378/polio/253287/... - Cached

Polio

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Polio is not a new disease. In ancient Egypt, there were recorded cases of polio. Prior the to the 20th century, the virus was always present in the environment. This constant exposure to the virus allowed immunity to be built up and passed on to the next generation. A baby would receive antibodies to the polio virus from its mother which provided protection from the virus until the babies own immune system was capable of creating its own antibodies to the virus. Only in people who had absolutely no resistance or natural exposure to polio did the virus cause paralysis.

However at the beginning of the 20th century with the onset of modern sanitation practices and the development of modern plumbing, the polio virus no longer existed in the everyday environment. Exposure to the virus decreased and immunity declined in the general population. Though the polio virus had existed for thousands of years, it had seldom had the opportunity to cause epidemics as was now the case in the early 20th century.

http://poliosask.org/polio.html

Polio Epidemics Traced Back To Ancient Egypt Debunked.
http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/polio-epidemics-traced-back-to-ancient-egypt-debunked/


:)

[HuckleB]

72. That is quite a list of BS conspiracy theory sites!

:rofl:

http://microbiology.columbia.edu/pico/Chapters/History.html

[cleanhippie]

71. Ha!

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[Warpy]

5. Yeah, breastfeeding until the kid hits puberty is so practical

Give it up. The antibodies passed to the newborn are incomplete and don't protect against a lot of diseases that can turn deadly. Infants who are too young to be vaccinated can and do die from pertussis passed to them by adults who are passing it off as the tail end of a cold.

Your irrational fear of the good things a bad system produced before it turned bad is duly noted.

Now go educate yourself about those usual childhood diseases and their morbidity and mortality rates.

There's a reason we vaccinate our children. We want them to live.

[Odin2005]

14. I dare you to tell that to all those polio victims in wheelchairs and iron lungs.

I dare you, tell that ignorant BS to their faces.

Hardy anyone dies of infectious diseases anymore. We have VACCINES to thank for that.

[defendandprotect]

44. Thought the claim was vaccines had wiped out polio -- ?

Any more over the line comments and you'll be on ignore --

[HuckleB]

53. I bet he's very scared.

:rofl:

[LeftishBrit]

62. Yes, but there are still older people who got polio before the vaccine was available.

[LeftishBrit]

28. Yes, and then we can all be like our ancestors who mostly died young

Breastfeeding helps with immunities, but only to those diseases that the mother had and recovered from. And the immunities generally don't last forever - and you can't continue being breastfed all your life.

Many modern medicines are in fact based on plants. But people who had *nothing* but plants to rely on, generally didn't survive as long as people do now.

Modern medicines are used in all countries and places that can afford them: socialist as well as capitalist.

[defendandprotect]

47. Maybe yours did -- mine didn't --

Breast milk has never really been fully studied/analyzed -- now with so much

pollution and destruction of nature it would probably be impossible to tell what

breastfeeding could have done!

Rocket fuel in breast milk in 35 states!!

From Day 1, Elites have tried to stop breastfeeding -- it was a major project to

enforce among the Native Americans, in fact. One of the first things the native

females were told was that their breastmilk was "no good" because it was blue.

A woman doesn't have to have "recovered" from any disease to pass on an immunity via

breastmilk -- simply EXPOSURE is sufficient.

You're saying the "immunities don't last forever" -- wrong -- there are chemicals and

hormones in breast milk you use into your 80's!

Meanwhile, many vaccines have to be given yearly -- or updated --

Many modern medicines are in fact based on plants. But people who had *nothing* but plants to rely on, generally didn't survive as long as people do now.

That's nonsense. Do you see animal-life calling on "Big Pharma"?

They well understand the power of plants as medications --

Some of the strongest skeletons are found among elephants and giraffes -- herbivores.

How long and healthfully did the Native American live -- oh, OOPS!!

We don't know because we killed them all!!

But, of course, we did it because they were so wrong about everything!!!


:rofl:

[LeftishBrit]

61. 'Do you see animal life calling on Big Pharma?'

And how long do most non-human animals live? Of course, this is mostly because they are not physiologically designed to live as long as humans; but animals too can live longer if medicines are made available than if they aren't. Pet-owners do get medicines for their pets, and it does extend their lives in many cases. It is, I believe, compulsory for pet-owners to get their pets vaccinated against certain diseases.

And frankly: I think it is very *un*progressive to demand that people should deny themselves and their families any treatments that weren't available 1000 years ago. Basically it's demanding that anyone who is not strong enough to survive unaided should just drop dead.

[defendandprotect]

68. You are comparing domesticated animals to animals in the wild?

How long do elephants live? Do you really want to compare them to housebound cats

and dogs?

And frankly: I think it is very *un*progressive to demand that people should deny themselves and their families any treatments that weren't available 1000 years ago. Basically it's demanding that anyone who is not strong enough to survive unaided should just drop dead.

That is YOUR distorted thinking --

What those who recommend caution vs vaccines are saying is let's not create a new epidemic of

irreversible disease among hundreds of thousands of children because we're trying to control

childhood diseases like measles and whopping cough!



AUTISM: The Latest Prevalence rates in USA - Now 1 in 175
the Latest Prevalence Rates in USA-Now ... About 300,000 U.S. children have been diagnosed with autism ... that affect the lives of many, many ...
dawn.thot.net/autism2.html - Cached


If you're truly interested in this thread and the issues, you might be interested in these

comments/info I just made to another poster--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=104111&mesg_id=104222

[laconicsax]

64. No, I don't see animals calling on "Big Pharma." I also don't see them reading or writing.

Does that mean that Big Literacy is something to be feared and mistrusted?

I also don't see "animal-life" (which I assume you didn't mean to include humans) practicing good hygiene or sanitation, nor does "animal-life" use the Internet, yet you do...

[MineralMan]

3. We have an outbreak of measles here in the Twin Cities.

It's spreading in the Somali community here. A couple of times, last year and this, anti-vaxxer villain Andrew Wakefield was here in the Minneapolis area and spoke to a Somali immigrant organization. He warned them against the MMR vaccination. So, many didn't get the vaccine. A child, returning to the area from a family trip to Kenya, came back with the measles and passed it along. So far, there have been no deaths, but there have been many hospitalizations in that community, which can ill afford hospital bills.

The anti-vaxxer movement is extremely dangerous to public health.

[mimitabby]

7. vaccine works all right

you probably aren't old enough to remember what polio victims look like...
that's because of polio vaccine.

[MineralMan]

8. Actually, I am quite old enough. Two of my friends in grammar

school died of polio. I was born in 1945. My brother in law had the disease, but recovered. I remember it very, very well, and was overjoyed when the vaccine became available.

I'm on the side of vaccination. Part of the reason is exactly that. In fact, I got my pneumonia vaccine last fall, along with my flu shot.

[defendandprotect]

9. How many will eventually be harmed and die because of these vaccines -- Autism?

Vaccines will only bring increasingly severe outbreaks --

And, suddently our medical profession is something to be honored and trusted?

10% Dr. Jekyll and 90% Mr. Hyde?

:eyes:

[laconicsax]

10. Harmed? Maybe 1 in a million. Die? Many less than that. Autism? None.

Vaccines don't cause autism. That's been demonstrated numerous times over the years.

[defendandprotect]

13. Nonsense -- there continue to be awards vs the vaccines ....

The Vaccine Court, in other words, seems quite willing to award millions of dollars in taxpayer funded compensation to vaccine-injured autistic children, so long as they don't have to call the injury by the loaded term "autism."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-david-kirby/vaccine-court-autism-deba_b_169673.html


Suddenly Big Pharma is trustworthy?

Not involved in cheat the public, robbing them blind for medicines --

and not involved in defrauding government and Medicare?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

17. Like we don't all FEAR Big Pharma -- !!!!

[MineralMan]

21. Oh, yes! Tell it!!!11!!

Actually, big Pharma saved my life once. I'm 20 years older now, thanks to the medications I received. How about that?

[defendandprotect]

23. Well, certainly your experiences with Big Pharma are all that count -- !!

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

76. Does this remind you of anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

[laconicsax]

22. You're all over the place.

Do adverse reactions to vaccines occur? Yes. This is well known.
Do these reactions include autism? No. This has been well established over the past decade. Study after study has failed to show even a semblance of a link between the two. The causes of autism aren't well understood, but vaccines aren't one of them.

RFK Jr. isn't a doctor, or even an expert on medicine. He's a lawyer and activist with an opinion--and an uninformed one at that.

I never said anything about the pharmaceutical industry, so why did you bring up that red herring?

I'd suggest you educate yourself on the subject before continuing. Right now, you're making a fool of yourself.

[defendandprotect]

34. And "Big Pharma" isn't acting in its own interests? Isn't active with PR -- ?

RFK Jr. isn't a doctor, or even an expert on medicine. He's a lawyer and activist with an opinion--and an uninformed one at that.

American taxpayers pay for the research on most of these drugs --

you might also notice the huge corruption within Big Pharma --

not only re deception on drugs but in defrauding US government -- Medicare!

[laconicsax]

37. Are we talking about Medicare fraud now?

You've now shifted from vaccines to autism to pharma to Medicare fraud.

Could you at least try to give coherent responses.

[defendandprotect]

41. We are talking about FRAUD and THEFT by "Big Pharma" --

something you seem quite anxious to avoid --

[HuckleB]

50. You appear to be working very hard to change the focus of this thread.

I find that to be quite interesting.

[LeftishBrit]

56. This is about a measles epidemic in *Europe*

Europaean countries have very different healthcare systems from America, so frauds on Medicare in America are simply not relevant to the topic.

Vaccines are not a feature specifically of the American healthcare system. Countries with National Health services also use vaccines. Socialist and communist countries use and have used vaccines. Corruption in the American healthcare system is not an argument against the use of vaccines.

[Odin2005]

15. One. Trick. Pony.

You are so predictable.

[defendandprotect]

18. Giving up obscenities as debate, eh?

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. Please, for the amusement of us all, explain how vaccines INCREASE

severe outbreaks.

I'm dying to hear this.

[MineralMan]

20. Will It Go Round in Circles?

Will it fly high
Like bird in the sky fly high?

I can hardly wait to see the logic at work. :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

24. Do we have increasing cases of autism everywhere that vaccines are used?

[laconicsax]

25. More importantly, do we have increasing cases of autism everywhere vaccines aren't used?

[LeftishBrit]

27. In the places where vaccines aren't used, or where access to them is limited...

(a) many children never live long enough to be diagnosed as autistic; (b)lack of access to doctors means that precise diagnoses are often not given.

Certainly severe mental and physical disabilities are common in such countries.

[defendandprotect]

36. Do you know how our own mortality rates for infants/youngsters has risen in USA?

What are you talking about?

We have the worst health care system - rated 37% in the world --

We're below Cuba!!

May even be worse now --

Where is there a worse system and denial of care than in America?

[laconicsax]

38. "What are you talking about?"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

A word of advice: Take a moment and collect your thoughts. Your comments in this thread are all over the place.

[defendandprotect]

40. If the comments are too complicated for you -- respond to someone else ....

Meanwhile, address what I asked you about --

[laconicsax]

46. Which part? Vaccines? Autism? Pharma? Medicare fraud? The US health system? Capitalism? Breast milk?

If you ask a coherent question, I'll gladly answer. If you insist on tossing out as many things as possible to see what sticks, sorry. I'm not going to play that game.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

52. Got more than one logical fallacy?

:rofl:

[laconicsax]

54. So we've moved on from vaccines and autism then?

Fair enough--that link has been thoroughly disproven.

I don't think we disagree on the interrelation between capitalism and the pharmaceutical industry.

[defendandprotect]

66. Actually, we've moved on from your posts -- bye!

[HuckleB]

73. Who is "we?"

[LeftishBrit]

60. What has the American healthcare system got to do with the basic point?

I agree that your system is bad in terms of denial of care; but developing countries have it even worse.

I'm British. Our system is rated 18th in the world. We use vaccines.

The top country for heathcare, according to the WHO, is France. Not only do they use vaccines; it is one of the few countries in Western Europe where vaccines are *compulsory*.

Cuba, which you mention, uses vaccines.

And certainly infant mortality/ life expectancy rates were much higher before vaccines! Bad as the situation in America is, with people dying through lack of insurance, life expectancy rates were much lower 100 years ago.

In 1900, in both Britain and America, one child in every six did not live to see their first birthday.

[laconicsax]

65. It has EVERYTHING to do with the basic point!

You see vaccines aren't natural.

They might cause teh autism, and other

problems. No one ever got sick while breast-

feeding...Medicare hadn't been invented.

Big pharma raped a puppy and monetized

capitalism.

:rofl:

[Ian David]

31. Don't expect a coherent argument from "Ignored." n/t

[Kali]

32. I'm pretty certain

Ignored ignored every science lesson it was ever exposed to. Talk about natural immunity. Immunity from logic and reason. 17%! yeah!

[Dorian Gray]

77. I'd rather contract autism

than be harmed and die by any of the following:

Measles, Smallpox, Polio, Flu....

I'd also rather my child contract autism than suffer through many of the childhood diseases that may cause her worse harm.

Not that the vaccines are proven to cause autism, but if that is your argument, I still find it weak.

[vim876]

29. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot?

To begin with, I am generally pro-vaccination. I like not having polio. On the other hand, I think that when a significant portion of otherwise sane people start believing crazy things, we need to look at what is causing them to think that. I was born in 1985. My brother was born in 1988, and my sister in 1990. My mother was looking at the records the other day, and mentioned that it seemed that they needed something like twice as many vaccines as I did? Why did they have to have so many more vaccines? Have we cut child mortality that much since the mid-1980s? Have we eradicated new diseases? No? Then what happened? If there's no public-health-based explanation, might that not help explain why people are being all crazy and not giving their kids the polio and MMR vaccines? If some unnecessary shots are making people wonder about the necessity of essential shots, isn't that a problem?

[LeftishBrit]

30. In fact, there are not so many more vaccines given since the mid-80s

The main change between 1985 and 1990 was the introduction of the MMR vaccine. However, children born in the early 80s would have had the single measles vaccine, and girls would have had the rubella vaccine at the age of about 12.

I am mainly familiar with the UK vaccine schedules, but I don't think they're that different from the US ones. I was a child in the 1960s, not the 1980s; nevertheless, I didn't get *that* many fewer vaccines than children nowadays.

Nowadays, children in the UK are vaccinated against:

Diphtheria (so was I in the 60s)
Pertussis (so was I)
Tetanus (so was I)
Polio (so was I)
Measles (so was I, but at age 5 or 6; it wasn't yet available when I was a baby)
Rubella (so was I, but at age 12)
Flu (but usually only children in risk categories. I did get that, too.)

Nowadays, children also get:

HIB

Meningitis

Pneumocccus

HPV (girls, at 11 or 12)


On the other hand, I had a couple of vaccines that kids now don't routinely get:

Smallpox (now eradicated)

TB (then given routinely at age 12 or 13. Now only for children in risk categories).


So it's actually only slightly more now than in the past.

[defendandprotect]

39. Mother's wisdom --

And, I was just pointing out the natural immunities from breastfeeding --

and notice when that was interrupted -- and we certainly haven't actually gotten

back to that wholly --

Meanwhile, women in 35% of our states have "rocket fuel" in their breast milk!!

Rocket fuel chemical found in mothers' milk - Health - Women ...
... water supplies in 35 states and ... whether mothers should have their breast milk ... Jump to related. Women's health, Drinking water, Rocket fuel, Cal...
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7025323 - Cached.



Capitalism destroys nature -- we are part of nature.

Capitalism is suicidal --

Plants are our natural medications --

[HuckleB]

43. What "unnecessary" immunizations are you claiming exist, if you're claiming they exist?

:shrug:

[Ian David]

55. I'm pro-Vaccination, but *I* will say there's an argument to be made against the chickenpox vaccine.

There are valid arguments against a vaccine of undetermined efficacy against a non-lethal disease that you can catch only once.

Some parents might prefer to send their kids to a Chickenpox Party to catch the disease the old-fashioned way.

However, claiming that the vaccine causes Autism or contains deadly levels of Mercury is not one of the valid arguments.

FWIW, my daughter got the chickenpox vaccine, just because I couldn't find anyone to give it to her naturally before she started school.

And she's FINE...

[HuckleB]

57. There appear to be many benefits to the chicken pox vaccine, including saved lives.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/es/science/varicella-chickenpox-vaccine

:hi:

[Ian David]

58. I stand corrected. Thanks! n/t