Is everyone on this forum a believer in conventional (western, industrial) medicine?

[ellenrr]

just askin'.....

[BlueJazz]

1. Medicine...Yes...some Doctors....not so much.

[tabatha]

2. I have had problems with doctors and medicines.

I have had fewer problems just keeping myself healthy.

[valerief]

3. I think most real people on this forum aren't automatic believers but think

medicine is always a gamble, sometimes worth the risk (known or unknown). Believers don't live with that kind of doubt.

[salvorhardin]

4. Would you like fries with that false dichotomy?

I think that science has given us a pretty good working knowledge of the human body down through the years, and a lot of treatments that work really, really well. Some not so much. There's still a lot to learn though, and undoubtedly we're wrong about a lot of things.

[theoldman]

5. Animals know how to use natural medicine and it works for them.

Asians use natural medicines but they are not as strong as industrial medicines. The good news is that they don't have side effects.

[uppityperson]

20. If you eat too much foxglove you will die. Yes, "natural" medicines often have side effects

Just because something is "natural" does not mean it has no side effects. Go eat a bunch of digitalis, foxglove.
"Asians use natural medicines"? All Asians? Seriously?
"Animals know how to use natural medicine and it works for them"? No animal dies from eating the wrong thing?

Good grief.

[virgogal]

6. Absolutely,especially vaccines. I also take garlic capsules for

indigestion,so I'm amenable to anything that works.

[TransitJohn]

7. A believer? Loaded phrasing. That's like asking if I believe the sun will come up tomorrow morning

Sometimes facts are facts, science is science, and medicine is medicine and exists independently of 'belief.'

[Taverner]

9. No I know where they're going with this. It's OK

Because there are the charlatans and con men who sell 'Homeopathic Medicine' which believes that water molecules have memory

Real medicine is backed by empirical evidence

Bullshit isn't

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[TransitJohn]

30. Where did I bash homeopathy?

Did I miss something? I almost never read this forum, you asked a question in your OP, I answered, you came back with this shit. Thanks.

[ellenrr]

31. sorry if my post was placed in response to the wrong person.

My shit was addressing the general tenor of the posts attacking alt. med, not directed at one individual.

prickly...

[cleanhippie]

36. Lets be clear: homeopathy is not "alt medicine." It is not "medicine" at all.

Its placebo. Nothing more.


If stating that fact is "attacking homeopathy", so be it.

[uppityperson]

37. I see no posts "attacking alt. med". Could you point them out? thank you. nt

[HuckleB]

35. I don't think you understand what bias is.

However, you've just inadvertently explained why you use the terms "belief," "conventional," "western," and "industrial." The use of those terms shows big time bias on your part. Faith healing should not be a part of the health care forum. It is a religious venture only. Further, showing that homeopathy is a baseless scam has nothing to do with "feeling superior." It has everything to do with valid scientific evidence, plausibility and ethics. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Taverner]

8. I am

Or should I say, I am a believer in scientific, not anecdotal medicine.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. I do, when and where it works and doesn't create additional problems that have

to be treated by yet more medications.



http://www.amazon.com/Drug-Induced-Nutrient-Depletion-Handbook-Pelton/dp/1930598459/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304114014&sr=8-1

[SPedigrees]

11. Western medicine and alternative meds, yes

but not pharmaceutical cos pushing their exorbitantly expensive drugs while spending millions on litigation against purveyors of generic drugs, to the detriment of poor people in 3rd world nations. For instance you couldn't pay me to go near chemo"therapy" drugs should I develop cancer. I take a lot of supplements and have seen great benefits (resveratrol, glucosamine/chondroitin, etc.) I'm also very pro-vaccine and pro-antibiotics. So yes and no is the short answer.

[uppityperson]

38. +100

[truedelphi]

12. I believe in thoroughly tested, thoroughly demonstarted medines and

Procedures.

The D/C I had to endure when experinecing a miscarriage back in the early seventies saved my life.

The Benadryl my dad took for over twenty years made his life with emphysema much more enjoyable.

Where would modern humankind be without pennicyliin and other antibiotics?

I also discovered that I didn't need an operation for one of the worst cases of diverticulitis my doctor had ever seen - just $ 14 worth of acidophilus for three months was necessary to clear up that condition.

I love my San Rafael acupuncturist. A chriopractor put my life back together after a major car accident - but I have had some miserabvle experiences with other chriopractors, and can understand how some people aren't ahppy with chiropractors.

I am not at all fond of most of the new medicines taht come out and are fast tracked inot general acceptance.

[ThatPoetGuy]

13. Um.

Medical science is a method of arriving at knowledge. Yes, I believe it's the best method, and anyone who doesn't believe that is a fool.

But that method hasn't really arrived at the best results yet, and probably won't for a thousand years.

The methods of medical science -- large-scale double-blind studies and so on -- should be applied to all approaches to health. Herbs should be studied as rigorously as prescription medicine; acupuncture should be studied as rigorously as surgical procedures.

Herbalism, homeopathy, acupuncture, chiropractic, physical therapy, and others have not been held to the standards of medical science yet. Given clinical trial, they may be proven effective, but thus far they haven't undergone the rigorous study expected of "western" medicine, to use your terminology.

But money corrupts the system. Rigorous testing requires money, and there's no big money to be found in herbs, for instance, since no pharmaceutical company can hold a patent on them. So at present time, in America, money biases medical research toward synthetic substances over natural, which is irritating.

[baldguy]

14. do you know what do they call "alternative" medicine that has been proven to work?

Medicine.

[murielm99]

15. There is a forum here called Astrology, Spirituality

and Alternative Healing group. You may want to check it out.

Please don't go there to mock people. It is a safe haven for believers.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drokhole]

16. By and large, I believe (in some cases) it can be a useful crutch to be used for a time...

...where the goal is a patient should be weaned off of it as they recover. Other than that, I don't believe anything can top a proper/healthy diet and an active lifestyle/exercise.

Now, that's not say there aren't cases where western medicine is absolutely required for the long haul (my mother, for example, had her thyroid removed, so she must remain on medication for the rest of her life). However, for the most part, it seems to me like most medication is more or less a "bailout" for an unhealthy lifestyle. What I mean is, our bodies are food recycling machines. They evolved along with what nature had to offer, which is why they operate optimally digesting natural foods while being on the move for the majority of time (hunting and foraging will do that to ya). And what you eat today is still the raw materials of your brain and body - cells, hair, neurons, blood, organs... Unfortunately, we consume all these chemicals, additives, food dyes, emulsifiers, fructose heavy sugars, you fucking name it...while at the same time are dumbfounded on an incredible uptick in diseases, cancers, and mental disorders (for a great documentary on the matter, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND one called Feed Your Head). Doesn't help that our air and water supply is more poisoned than it has ever been before, either.

I generally agree with what Andrew Weil calls "Integrative Medicine" (which is basically a re-branding of "holistic" medicine, since most people are turned off by that term):

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02054/Andrew-Weil-Integrative-Medicine.html


(edit for link to "Feed Your Head" documentary: http://store.documentarychannel.com/Feed-Your-Head-p/1065.htm)

[LeftishBrit]

17. Yes, as in believing that it's the best we've got at the moment

There is no infallible cure for all diseases, and a lot that isn't yet known about the body; but I think I've got a much better chance with modern medicine than with faith healing or distilled water (homeopathy) or worse, potentially actively harmful treatments like chelation or colonic irrigations. Or than rejecting everything not used by our ancestors 100 or more years ago - thus essentially putting us back into a world of 'survival of the fittest'.

And by the way, contrary to the stereotypes, lifestyle measures such as nutrition, exercise, non-smoking, etc. are very much part of modern medicine.

[HuckleB]

18. I tend to go with this...

... as described in the opening post at Science Based Medicine:

From: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1

"...

And yet there are numerous and powerful influences in society that strongly appose the scientific basis of medicine. Driven by some combination of ideology or the desire for profit they wish to eliminate standards of science in health care, or (often under the guise of “health care freedom”) create a double standard in which unscientific methods and products can thrive unchecked. Others simply lack the training or knowledge to achieve minimal standards of quality for scientific medicine. And even the best traditions of scientific medicine can benefit from more critical analysis.

Within the practice of medicine there is already a recognition of the need to raise the standards of evidence and the availability of the best evidence to the practitioner and the consumer – formalized in the movement known as evidence-based medicine (EBM). EBM is a vital and positive influence on the practice of medicine, but it has its limitations. Most relevant to this blog is the focus on clinical trial results to the exclusion of scientific plausibility. The focus on trial results (which, in the EBM lexicon, is what is meant by “evidence”) has its utility, but fails to properly deal with medical modalities that lie outside the scientific paradigm, or for which the scientific plausibility ranges from very little to nonexistent.

All of science describes the same reality, and therefore it must (if it is functioning properly) all be mutually compatible. Collectively, science builds one cumulative model of the natural world. This means we can make rational judgments about what is likely to be true based upon what is already well established. This does not necessarily equate to rejecting new ideas out-of-hand, but rather to adjusting the threshold of evidence required to establish a new claim based upon the prior scientific plausibility of the new claim. Failure to do so leads to conclusions and recommendations that are not reliable, and therefore medical practices that are not reliably safe and effective.

This is why the authors of this blog strongly advocate for science based medicine – the use of the best scientific evidence available, in the light of our cumulative scientific knowledge from all relevant disciplines, in evaluating health claims, practices, and products. The authors are all medically trained and have spent years writing for the public about science and medicine, tirelessly advocating for high scientific standards in health care. Together, and with contributions from other medical science writers, they will turn a critical eye toward all issues relating to science and medicine. They hope to make the Science Based Medicine blog a vital resource for consumers, providers, regulators, the media, and anyone interested in quality health care."



-----------------------

I'd spend far more time saying basically the same thing, but...

[BuddhaGirl]

19. Yes, when conventional medicine is appropriate

But I mainly use Alternative Medicine. I find great benefit from it. :hi:

[uppityperson]

21. It depends on how it is used. Like anything. eom

[DanTex]

22. Conventional and "alternative" medicine don't need to be at odds

I believe in Western scientific medicine. Of course there are things that scientists do not know, but that doesn't discredit the scientific approach. Most of all, I believe in the methodology of western science. Even in areas where western science does not currently provide answers, it provides the correct framework for rigorously exploring and assessing the validity of claims and theories.

Having said that, I am less dismissive of so-called "alternative" practices than some others here. I think one of the errors that the "conventional medical establishment" makes consistently is proclaiming certainty in areas where there is doubt. Too often, rather than saying "we don't know", some authority will instead say "we're sure that doesn't work" or "we're sure this is safe". They act as though things are mostly understood, with just a few remaining unknowns. But the reality is the opposite: there are a few absolutely established facts swimming in a sea of uncertainty.

And then there are problems with the Pharma industry. The fact that studies funded by the pharma industry are more likely to come out in favor of pharma is a pretty serious indictment of the entire body of pharma-sponsored research.

So, overall, my philosophy is to be scientific in the true sense of taking in all available evidence, weighing it carefully, being aware of the biases of all parties, and not jumping to conclusions prematurely.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

23. Why do you ask?

Do you think that believers in "western, industrial medicine" are misguided?

[ellenrr]

28. well yes considering tht 100,000 people a year acc to jama die from pharmaceuticals

yes I would say they are misguided.
BTW way the figure is the last available from many years ago, and since the # of misguided people taking pharmaceuticals has quadrupled or more, this figure is way out of date.

Still it amounts to approx the same # as died in 911, dying every week from properly prescribed properly taken pharmaceuticals.

Among the elderly, adverse effects from pharmaceuticals is the number One cause of hospital admissions and the number 4 cause of death.

Oh yes we love our pharmaceuticals. Let's keep Big pharma making their inhuman profits.

How funny on a "liberal" forum to see such compliance!! too funny....

Are there no voices on this forum that have done any investigation, that have read any books?

I posed the original question bec. I wished to bring them out if there are any better-informed voices out there.
Also bec. I wonder how many of the other voices are shills for big pharma, or - more likely- just so badly uninformed.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

34. That's what I figured

Have fun with your tin foil.

[AC_Mem]

24. All of them

Western, Eastern, Alternative and Energy Medicine.

I embrace all forms of healing.

Annette

[sunwyn]

25. What's western medicine? I haven't had medical insurance in years

I have studied herbs, nutrition, and exercise to try to stay as healthy as possible. Other than the bad Lyme days and a mouthful of cracked teeth, i get by. Pretty pathetic for USA

[ellenrr]

32. agree. I haven't had insurance since 1986.

I healed myself from Lyme with herbs, but yeah teeth are another matter.
I get some minimal dental care at a clinic, but not root canals, etc.
eyes are another matter too.

I take herbs to help prevent the various eye ailments likely to come with age, or delay them, but don't know if I can keep them away forever. Hope to make it to medicare in another year, IF there is any medicare left.

[uppityperson]

39. What herbs did you use to heal yourself from Lyme? Serious question. Thanks.

[ellenrr]

40. I followed Stephen Buhner's protocol

his book is called, "Healing Lyme".
If you'd like I can send you more details (it's kinda long) in a pm.

[HuckleB]

26. Penn & Teller have an opinion, too ...

:rofl:

Penn & Teller Bullshit! Season 1, Episode 2 :Alternative Medicine (1/3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkXR9mflOo&feature=related

Penn & Teller Bullshit! Season 1, Episode 2 :Alternative Medicine (2/3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqo4KBNL_h4&feature=related

Penn & Teller Bullshit! Season 1, Episode 2 :Alternative Medicine (3/3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9246yX1u0t8&feature=related

:rofl:

[bemildred]

33. Depends on what's wrong, and "belief" has nothing to do with it.

Modern medicine is very good at acute care, not so much when the problem is less clear, or it's less clear that there is a problem, and I have little use for authority based medicine. I don't see anything that suggests to me that health care providers as such are better than anybody else, having a good doctor is like having a good auto mechanic. On the other hand I think they have become far too dependent on tests and scans and whatnot, and all very expensive too, and thus inevitably corrupted by money and the profit motive. I mean let 's face it, you cannot simultaneously maximize profit and quality. And as I have said in the past the way statistics is used in "research" goes way beyond what the math says is true. I would absolutely be dead now without modern medicine, and so would a lot of the rest of you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to do whatever they tell me to.

[mopinko]

41. i am. i have had a family member die in horrible pain

because of relying on quackery. how many people are in that boat? nobody is counting. it just goes down as a death from a disease.
that is sort of the whole difference in a nutshell imho. "we" collect evidence, "they" bury theirs.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

42. Yes, if it works.

And if the doctor is not an idiot.
My doctor is an internist and pulmonary specialist, and I've seen him for 25 years.

However, every time I ask him, or his NP, about additional thyroid tests (i've been hypothyroid and on Armour for 45 years, since I was a kid,) I get ignored. They refuse to run any tests other than the TSH test, which is secreted by the pituitary.

I also tell him I have adrenal fatigue from too much stress, and that I feel much better on prednisone. It makes the difference between my being bedridden with allergies and being vertical and functional. Well, they are scared shitless to give people prednisone, because they think you will retain fluid and your adrenals will quit functioning. Mine quit functioning a long time ago. i have a severe startle reflex, my BP drops precipitously upon standing, and I have extreme fatigue after exercise.Example: I walked ten minutes on a treadmill at 3 miles per hour. I went home and slept for fourteen hours straight.

Those are all symptoms of adrenal exhaustion. So what do they do??? Ignore me.

I consider Ayurveda and acupuncture to be valid methods of treatment because they have been tested by thousands of years of empirical experience in India and China.

[Philippine expat]

43. Sure am

I am also a believer in other forms of non traditional methods.