How the FDA looks out for your well being, they'll class naturally ocurring materials as

[HysteryDiagnosis]

drugs, they'll offer you something proven to be less effective and often times damaging as an alternative. They are the true quacks of the medical community. They care not for your welfare, they care only for $$ and where it accumulates.


http://www.lef.org/LEFCMS/aspx/PrintVersionMagic.aspx?CmsID=117146


As expected, AGE and ALE formation underwent a two- to three-fold increase in obese untreated rats compared to lean animals. Conversely, those increases were entirely absent in obese animals treated with pyridoxamine. Treated animals also experienced a smaller increase in plasma triglycerides, cholesterol, and creatinine levels, compared with the obese untreated rats.14

In an equally compelling development, hypertension in animals treated with pyridoxamine also resolved, as did thickening of blood vessel walls. Untreated animals displayed urinary evidence of renal disease (albuminuria) that in contrast had been nearly normalized in supplemented animals. This provides powerful evidence of pyridoxamine’s multi-targeted protective effect against CKD.14

In 2004, the same research team made a landmark discovery: while studying the relative effects of pyridoxamine along with a variety of additional natural antioxidants on the progression of kidney disease in diabetic rats, they decided to examine how these natural compounds stacked up against enalapril, a standard pharmaceutical intervention used to prevent CKD.9 Enalapril is an ACE inhibitor, one of a class of drugs commonly used to control blood pressure and kidney disease.

They found that pyridoxamine therapy was the most effective at preventing progression of kidney disease, followed by vitamin E and lipoic acid. Enalapril, the prescription drug, proved to be the least effective intervention. Pyridoxamine also limited lipid profile abnormalities and formation of AGE's and ALE's, offering a far broader spectrum of preventive effects than enalapril.9

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Fortunately there is another supplement they haven't labeled a drug just yet the

bastards. It is pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P5P) (Read about it at link) http://www.lef.org/LEFCMS/aspx/PrintVersionMagic.aspx?CmsID=117146


Four Complementary Kidney Protectors
Coenzyme Q10

Because of the tremendous blood flow and high concentration of metabolic toxins continuously circulating through the kidneys, they are the site of extraordinary oxidative stress, which is known to contribute to progressive kidney damage and its complications, such as high LDL and increased cardiovascular disease risk.22

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) fortifies the body’s natural antioxidant capacity and reduces levels of oxygen free radicals, indicating its important defense against CKD. As it happens, CoQ10 has been used experimentally to control hypertension and kidney disease in laboratory animals since the early 1970s.23,24

Human studies have shown that CoQ10 levels substantially decline, while markers of oxidation such as malondialdehyde are dramatically elevated, in kidney disease patients with even mild renal dysfunction.41 These decreased CoQ10 levels also make circulating lipoproteins (such as LDL) more vulnerable to oxidative damage, which in turn increases risk for further cardiovascular damage, adding to the renal burden and substantially increasing the risk of kidney disease.25

A team of European researchers published compelling evidence in 2001 of how effective such a nutritional intervention can be, studying a group of patients with established kidney disease.26 Subjects received antioxidant therapy with vitamin C, E, and riboflavin (vitamin B2) for one month before the addition of 2 months of CoQ10 therapy. Prior to supplementation, CoQ10 values in blood were just one-quarter of normal levels; they increased to nearly four times the reference level following supplementation. The study was too brief to demonstrate any change in kidney function, but evidence from animal trials that same year showed that when CoQ10 levels were increased in tissues of diabetic rats, a reversal of markers of oxidative stress in kidney, heart, and liver resulted.27

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. What's your defintion of a "naturally ocurring material", then?

An inorganic mineral, perhaps? Why else do you object to "naturally ocurring materials" being classified as drugs?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. If a plant makes it, or if it exists as a mineral and they cannot patent it and then jack the

price into the stratosphere thereby cripping an already crippled healthcare system, it is a naturally occurring material. I'll take mine without the twisting and tweaking. If these approaches were mainstream (and they will never be as long as the pharmcos own the med schools) we would have far less medical debt and a much higher quality of life for millions. To me that is a better option than what we now have.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. So nicotine is not a drug to you, then?

Opium? THC? You think these aren't drugs, because you can get the from a plant and would stand no chance of patenting them?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. I'm sorry, I thought you understood that I was speaking about the myriad beneficial,

therapeutic, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals/herbs that are used to promote wellness. In no way was I talking about detrimental items that have not been through trials to prove their effectiveness in diabetes, chronic kidney disease, CVD, and a thousand other conditions that can be beneficially affected with what the body normally uses to repair and maintain itself.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. So if something is used to promote wellness, it can't be a drug?

I'm glad the FDA has a handle on the definition of 'drug' , because you sure don't.

[laconicsax]

7. Win. n/t

[uppityperson]

8. +

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Nope, can't be a drug. A drug must have an LD 50 rating. Anyhoo, you are blurring the

point of the FDA making a safe and effective treatment unavailable to people by classing it a drug. If you want to play semantics that's fine. The point of the article is that they are guilty of harming people by replacing safe alternatives with crap by deeming nutrient/vitamin/xyz as a drug and then substituting some crap whipped up in the lab as an "alternative".

Please tell me what the LD50 rating for B12 is if you have time.

[trotsky]

10. Does cannabis have an LD50 rating?

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. LD50 level for B12:

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/CY/cyanocobalamine.html

Safety data for cyanocobalamine
Synonyms: Vitamin B12, anacobin, berubigen, betalin-12, B-twelve, byladoce, cobadoce, cobalin, cobamin, cobione, cotel, covit, crystamin, crystwel, cyanocobalamin, cyredin, cytacon, cytamen, cytobion, depinar, dobetin, docemine, docibin, dicogram, dodecabee, dodex, ducobee, duodecibin, embiol, fresmin, hepavis, hepcovite, magalovel, macrabin, milbdoce, nagravon, normocytin, pernaemon, rebramin, redamina, redisol, rubesol, rubramin, vibalt, numerous further trade names
Use: food additive, vitamin
...
Toxicity data
ORL-MUS LD50 > 8000 mg kg-1
IVN-MUS LD50 2000 mg kg-1

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. You'd better stop while you are ahead.... you have cleverly managed to completely and

rather heinously disregard the actual subject matter that was offered. Now let's put the monkey on your back. You knew exactly what I was implying when I said nutrients aren't drugs. You knew exactly what I meant when I said the FDA is proffering toxic chemicals in place of nutrients/vitamins/antioxidants proven to be safe and more effective than the drugs they offer in their stead.

You have totally failed to address the original spirit of the OP by steering the conversation away from what was presented in the article towards a battle about what is and what isn't a drug. If you want to read the article and then claim that what they are saying is false then go ahead.

If you want to discuss the toxicity of water or air then do that as well. You know damn well that the therapeutic effects of B12 are reached at far far lower levels than those at which any detrimental side effects might be felt. It's sad and criminal that we cannot say that about Enalapril.

Let's see if this sinks in:

They found that pyridoxamine therapy was the most effective at preventing progression of kidney disease, followed by vitamin E and lipoic acid. Enalapril, the prescription drug, proved to be the least effective intervention. Pyridoxamine also limited lipid profile abnormalities and formation of AGE's and ALE's, offering a far broader spectrum of preventive effects than enalapril.9

You can call it what you like, it is still a vitamin.

http://www.drugs.com/ppa/pyridoxine-hcl-b6.html

Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
( B 6 ) Pronouncation: (peer-ih-DOX-een HIGH-droe-KLOR-ide)
Class: Vitamin, water-soluble
Trade Names:
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride


Given a choice, would you do this?

Pyridoxamine / P-5-P 50 mg–250 mg twice daily, 30 minutes before meals
Coenzyme Q10: Ubiquinol: 100 mg–300 mg daily, anytime Ubiquinone: 200 mg–600 mg daily, best with fat-containing meals
Silymarin: 720 mg silymarin along with 270 mg silibinin daily, with meals
Resveratrol: 100 mg–250 mg daily in divided doses
R-Lipoic Acid: 200 mg once or twice daily, 30 minutes before meals
Carnitine: 500 mg–1,500 mg daily, on an empty stomach
Omega-3s (from fish oil): 4,000 mg–6,000 mg daily, with meals
Vitamin E: Roughly 350 mg of mixed tocopherols with at least 200 mg gamma tocopherol daily
Vitamin C: Up to, but not exceeding 3,000 mg daily
Folic acid (as methylfolate): 1,000 mcg daily


Or this?? Only a fool would choose this over the nutritional protocol listed above, only a fool or a victim of the medical establishment.

Side Effects of Enalapril - for the Consumer
Enalaprilat

All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Enalaprilat:

Diarrhea; dizziness or lightheadedness when sitting up or standing; headache; nausea; persistent, dry cough; tiredness; vomiting.

Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Enalaprilat:

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); chest pain; hoarseness; infection (eg, fever, sore throat); irregular or slow heartbeat; unusual stomach pain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.

[laconicsax]

13. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

HysteryDiagnosis: "A drug must have an LD 50 rating...Please tell me what the LD50 rating for B12 is if you have time."
muriel_volestrangler: "LD50 level for B12:" complete with link.
HysteryDiagnosis: "you have cleverly managed to completely and rather heinously disregard the actual subject matter that was offered."

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. So you're saying that paying attention to your title and opening sentence is 'heinous disregard'

for the subject matter of the thread. OK, in future, I'll disregard everything that you write, and just look at the links you provide. Or, even better, look at Wikipedia on the subject, which manages to be far more informative.

It's just as well I'll ignore your own text from now on, because I can't see what your objection to me answering your question about the LD50 level for B12 was.

[trotsky]

16. So precisely answering your question is...

"heinously disregard"ing the subject?

You are a riot. No wonder so few take you seriously.