12 Things You Should Stop Buying Now! #1 - Homeopathic Flu Remedies

[cleanhippie]

1. Homeopathic Flu Remedies

The pitch: Fight back against the aches, chills and other misery-inducing symptoms of the flu with herbs or vitamin supplements.

The truth: We’ll let the CDC handle this one. From the agency’s website: “There is no scientific evidence that any herbal, homeopathic or other folk remedies have any benefit against influenza.”

The exception: Chicken soup, especially if it’s homemade. No, it won’t cure anything, but if it makes you feel a little less crummy, slurp away.

Read more: http://moneyland.time.com/2011/08/19/12-things-you-really-should-just-stop-buying/#ixzz1WBU6Smwg

[proud patriot]

1. for me it's wonton soup

I have a local place that doesn't use MSG , and man I swear by their won ton soup.
It's the elixer that cures all IMO.

[Dorian Gray]

22. Matzoh Ball Soup

here. It cures many ills!

[Iwasthere]

2. What is with the fear of alternative remedies

Big Pharma and the FDA own doctors now. Doctors must tow the line or else. The sickening cancer machine is a prime example. Chemo is a huge failure, go to http://chrisbeatcancer.com to see the facts, written by survivors that refused chemo (and were told they would die in months if the didn't do it, many are alive 15 years later and their cancer was gone within a year. I have lost two good friends recently and about to lose my brother, he is so trusting of the docs, and they are just doing what they are told and what they have learned in school, if they didn't learn it in school then it is not a valid solution. We have cures now damnit! I am soooo sick of losing friends and family. CHEMO KILLS!!! So many gullable people in the world. Alternatives are saving lives and chemo and all the crazy meds you see on the commercials are whats killing us, just look at the pages of side effects, that often include death, for Gods sake , wake up!

[OnTheOtherHand]

3. that's an ad hominem derail

Do you contest the CDC's assessment of homeopathic flu remedies? If so, based on what evidence?

If you've found an "alternative" cure for cancer, by all means share. I confess that I'm not especially interested in following your dot-com link.

[peacebird]

6. we use an herbal tincture my mother-in-law gave me the recipe for and find it works wonders

We have an immune booster tincture, and a flu tincture. Make up a batch of each every three of four years. Start of flu season we take immune booster daily, and add in the flu tincture if co-workers are getting sick or if we start to feel punky.... Works great for us. Not a homeopathic, but an herbal based tincture.

[OnTheOtherHand]

11. maybe so

Aspirin used to be an herbal remedy, more or less. As long as you're not assuming that "herbal" treatments are inherently safe -- and as long as you don't take your own anecdotal experience too far -- hey, see what happens.

I do run into arguments along the lines that 'such-and-such works for me, but doctors won't prescribe it because Big Pharma can't make money off it.' I'm not so sure about that, in general: doctors do prescribe things that Big Pharma can't make much money off. (I'm not saying that you made any such argument.)

[peacebird]

13. willow bark has a long history in herbal medicine ("aspirin" in modern parlance)

We have the medical research done by the German Commission E, as well as books by Native American herbalists and others. We are careful in what we use, but believe there is a lot of wisdom in the herbal heritage....

http://cms.herbalgram.org/commissione/intro/ceherbsingermany.html

[HuckleB]

16. So...?

Anecdotal evidence and small scale studies mean almost nothing... Or do you not understand that?

[peacebird]

29. "so...." Our family makes herbal preparations and uses them extensively and finds them quite useful

We do understand a great deal about herbal preparations, their strengths and weaknesses and as I am not suggesting *you* use them, why do you react with such snark?

[cleanhippie]

30. Herbal "preparations" are not Homeopathy.

Lets not confuse two very different things.

[SpiralHawk]

4. the mediccal pharmaceutical complex

monopoly is the basic idea

just like with Big Food

[Iwasthere]

8. That is right

And those that have found cures are squashed BIGTIME! Doesn't take long to find them, simple research. If you had cancer would you just trust your doctor without question?

[cleanhippie]

19. You throw around the qword "cure" as if you had some actual EVIDENCE to support that.

Scientific evidence. Please provide some.

[HuckleB]

21. Uh, no one trusts their doctor without question.

However, one would be foolish to trust anecdotes from the Internet over their doctor.

[HuckleB]

15. And BIG SUPPLEMENT! AND BIG HOMEOPATHY!

You have to love them scam artists!

:rofl:

[mucifer]

5. Without chemotherapy the cancer cure rate among kids is horrible

The vastly improved pediatric cancer survival and cure rate is one of modern medicine’s greatest success stories. Childhood cancer cure rates have climbed from less than 10% in the 1950s to nearly 80% today.

Collaborative research has been responsible for this.

http://www.standup2cancer.org/node/2670

[Iwasthere]

9. Poison plan and simple

An investigation by the Department of Radiation Oncology, Northern Sydney Cancer Centre, Australia, into the contribution of chemotherapy to 5-year survival in 22 major adult malignancies, showed startling results: The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in Australia and 2.1% in the USA.”

The research covered data from the Cancer Registry in Australia and the Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results in the USA for the year 1998. The current 5-year relative adult survival rate for cancer in Australia is over 60%, and no less than that in the USA. By comparison, a mere 2.3% contribution of chemotherapy to cancer survival does not justify the massive expense involved and the tremendous suffering patients experience because of severe, toxic side effects resulting from this treatment. With a meager success rate of 2.3%, selling chemotherapy as a medical treatment (instead of a scam), is one of the greatest fraudulent acts ever committed. The average chemotherapy earns the medical establishment a whopping $300,000 to $1,000,000 each year, and has so far earned those who promote this pseudo-medication (poison) over 1 trillion dollars. It’s no surprise that the medical establishment tries to keep this scam alive for as long as possible.

-Andreas Moritz, Natural News

[OnTheOtherHand]

12. ummmm...

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, a treatment that measurably increases survival rates obviously isn't "poison plain and simple."

Whether chemotherapy is worth the expense and the side effects is an important and complex question -- not a plain and simple one.

[Odin2005]

43. Natural news??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:rofl:

[astral]

57. Natural News has alot of stories you won't hear elsewhere.

Call bullshit on something specific if you wish, I'll bet you can't.

There is a wealth of knowledge we need about the things Mother Nature has grown for us. People need to seek knowledge rather than wait for what is spoon-fed to them through the regular media sources.

You can find out if things are true or not. Try them, do they make any difference in how you feel? Don't try anything that has potential to harm you. You have nothing to lose.

There is a tendency in this forum to lump 'homeopathic' remedys in with anything natural or herbal or from nature. It's like there are two sides of the fence: "Medical Profession" or "Other."

I am afraid I do not first-hand know the truth about cancer cures. I think "prevention" is the key to 'curing' cancer.

[laconicsax]

58. So does Answers in Genesis. n/t

[OnTheOtherHand]

59. OK, I'll call bullshit on something

http://www.naturalnews.com/031451_drug_trials_placebo_effect.html

This particular experiment involved applying heat to the legs of test subjects in order to cause pain, then adding a painkiller medication to an IV drip while assessing the subjects' pain levels. When the painkiller drug was present, the test subjects were told about it, and just as expected their pain scores significantly dropped. But when test subjects were told the pain medication had been stopped, their pain levels returned back to the original, non-medicated levels even though the pain medication was secretly still being dripped into their IVs.

The mind of the patient, in other words, is what actually determines the "effectiveness" of the pain drug, not the chemical effect of the drug itself.

It's sort of odd that Adams doesn't mention this part from the BBC article he cites:

The initial average pain rating was 66. Patients were then given a potent painkiller, remifentanil, without their knowledge and the pain score went down to 55.

I suppose Adams might conjecture that that happens because the remifentanil causes a side effect, and the patients therefore get excited to think that they're getting a drug, even though they aren't aware that they're getting it. Umm, maybe. But one might at least consider the hypothesis that remifentanil actually is a painkiller.

Well, how much can one possibly infer from one study about painkillers and expectations? Wait for it....

But the deeper truth of the matter is that what's real is what you make real. Your mind, all by itself, can alter your physiology, neutralize toxic drugs, halt pain and probably even achieve other seemingly miraculous feats such as re-growing lost limbs. What's necessary to get there isn't technology but rather belief in the ability of the mind to shape the outcome of the body.

It is especially fascinating that this is no longer merely new age talk: It is the scientifically validated conclusion of rigorous studies involving patient expectations. Now, the interaction of the body and the mind IS the new science!

Yup, yup, there's no doubt about it: the scientifically validated conclusion of rigorous studies is that your mind can probably re-grow lost limbs! Heck, that's just the beginning. What's real is what you make real! Feeling sick? Just turn that frown upside down!

Look, I'm a big fan of the mind. Some of my best friends have minds, and excellent minds at that. However, they don't appear to be omnipotent minds.

[HuckleB]

14. Fear?

Of scams! Why, yes. Scams are something everyone should work to help others avoid.

[cleanhippie]

18. As soon as you provide some scientific evidence that homeopathic remedies work, lets discuss that.

Until then, you just sound like a lunatic.

[HuckleB]

20. This is some sick crap you are pushing.

Sorry, but you clearly don't know any doctors, and you are working to kill people who suffer from cancer by pushing the BS you are pushing.

That is some sick shit!

[Odin2005]

42. BULL-FUCKINH-SHIT. My cousin would be DEAD right now were it not for Chemo.

She had brest cancer. You post is disgusting.

[idiotgardener]

7. Oh the irony...

They tell you to stop buying homeopathic because it cures nothing (though many people swear it makes them feel better), and then immediately tell you the exception is chicken soup which cures nothing (though many people swear it makes them feel better).

Props for the section on bottled water though.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dorian Gray]

23. Chicken Soup

is not homeopathic. And it comforts, not cures.

[OnTheOtherHand]

24. I thought about pointing out

that spending money on nutritious food really isn't all that much like spending money on sugar pills with, possibly, an infinitesimal trace of duck liver (Oscillococcinum). But I suppose it depends on one's point of view.

[Dorian Gray]

33. Is that what

oscillococcinum is? Duck liver?

I had no clue!

[OnTheOtherHand]

34. Anas Barbariae Hepatis et Cordis Extractum

which Wikipedia renders as "extract of Muscovy Duck liver and heart." (Apparently "Anas Barbariae" is not the actual name of the Muscovy duck, but that train has already left the station.) I can't help but think that if they put "extract of Muscovy Duck liver and heart" on the package, that might hurt sales.

Of course, it's "200CK," which apparently means 200 successive dilutions of 1:100 each. So even though it's listed as the active ingredient, it isn't, umm, actually there. I guess that's a very Western allopathic thing of me to say.

[idiotgardener]

25. Right, same result.

I don't believe in homeopathy but why didn't they suggest something that actually alleviates some symptoms?

[Dorian Gray]

32. It was mentioned in the spirit

that I said. I thought that was clear in the article. It was a cutesy mention.

[HuckleB]

36. Exactly. Thus, the sCAM pusher's claim of irony falls to pieces.

It's amazing what the sCAM pushers will cling to...

[HuckleB]

26. Yup.

And the article pointed all that out, which makes the "irony" rather without actual irony.

[xchrom]

10. Recommend

[LeftishBrit]

27. I don't know; when I had the flu, I drank a lot of water, and I think it was quite helpful.

[Big Blue Marble]

28. So how can you personally guarantee

that this is not Big Pharma-backed propaganda? You keep asking for evidence, What is yours? Or do you
just rely on the authority of an agency that is closely tied to the big business of profit-based medicine and
sit back an feel smug?

[cleanhippie]

31. The evidence is repeated studies and research showing that homeopathy is no better than placebo.

What more does one need?



To try and squeeze out of that the idea that evidence to the contrary is being suppressed by "big pharma" implies a conspiracy. Provide evidence of that please, if you can.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. Who is saying that any evidence is suppressed?

I was asking what evidence you were offering. All you have is third party evidence.
You apparently are not concerned that that evidence might be proffered by anyone
with an agenda of their own.

You seemed to be only interested in bashing homeopathy because it
does not fit into your world view. It actually does work for many.
What do you do with that fact? Just say arrogantly say they are irrational?

Just think, there may be a whole alternative universe out there you may be
missing because your ego just.can't see it.

[HuckleB]

40. Say what?

You do understand that the only plausibility homeopathy offers is the hope that almost everything we understand about biology, chemistry and physics is completely wrong.

Right?

If not, what are you going on about?

[OnTheOtherHand]

35. and by the way, is Boiron a non-profit?

Considering that they charge something like a dollar a pill for... well, it's hard to say what, exactly, I suspect they do OK.

[Big Blue Marble]

37. Let's see.

A dollar a pill, I wish that is all big pharma charges.
Doing OK or making billions, which is more profitable? :shrug:

[HuckleB]

38. A dollar for nothing vs. something that could plausibly help someone?

Is that the equation you're offering up?

[OnTheOtherHand]

41. all big pharma charges for what, specifically?

Nip Flu-like Symptoms in the Bud

Newtown Square, Pa. – Experts agree that the sooner cold and flu symptoms are treated, the better chance there is for a quick recovery and minimum disruption of lifestyle. Yet people hesitate to take action at the crucial early stage. Typically, they wait until they are “sick enough” to take medications that simply mask full-blown symptoms....

Instead of waiting to mask symptoms, the key is to start with a medicine like Oscillococcinum® that nips symptoms in the bud. Oscillo® is a homeopathic medicine that works with the body to help it rebalance and heal itself.

http://www.oscillo.com/press-room/nip-flu-in-the-bud/

Is there any "Big Pharma" treatment that claims to work with the body to help it heal itself from flu? If so, how much does it cost?

[HuckleB]

45. It's actually quite a bit more than a buck a tablet.

http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Oscillococcinum-Natural-Relief-Bonus/dp/B000X9DM8U

And how many tablets is one supposed to take in a day?

And the tablets contain, well, nothing?

Hmmmmmmm.

Can you say, "SCAM!" ????

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

46. If a cheap, harmless placebo makes someone feel better

(or makes them think they feel better), I haven't got a problem with it.

And I don't agree with the CDC on everything.

[HuckleB]

47. It's not cheap, and it's a scam.

We put other people in jail for scams. Why should be homeopath selling companies get away with it?

[Crunchy Frog]

48. It's sugar pills.

And even if they are expensive (and not all of them are), there are alot worse things that people spend alot more money on.

I think they should be regulated to ensure that they don't contain toxic or dangerous substances, and there should be reasonable regulations as to how they can represent themselves, but I don't have a problem if some people want to buy them and other people want to sell them.

People have the right to do things even if you don't approve of them, as long as it's not harming you.

[HuckleB]

49. In other words, you think scams should be legal.

Got it.

Homeopathic nothing pills are not cheap. Sorry, but they should be free, and only used by children when playing doctor.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Whatever words you feel like putting in my mouth.

Feel free to make up anything that suits you.

[HuckleB]

51. I'm not making up a thing.

Your stand is quite clear.

[Crunchy Frog]

52. Whatever you say.

It's your reality and you can make it however you want it. ;)

[HuckleB]

53. Actually, it's your reality.

You want to push something, but you want to pretend you're not pushing it?

Great.

:rofl:

[Crunchy Frog]

54. And what is it that you imagine I'm pushing?

Other than your buttons, that is? :rofl:

[HuckleB]

60. That's quite the admission.

Thanks!

[OnTheOtherHand]

55. seems to me Crunchy Frog has a reasonable point

In a free society, there must be some limits to how far we go in trying to protect people from "scams." I'm not sure what they should be, but it should be possible to argue that homeopathy should be legal without being construed as pushing homeopathy. There are all sorts of things I really dislike that I think should be legal -- sometimes reluctantly -- and other things that I'm not sure about.

[HuckleB]

61. No, he doesn't.

He is using a double standard.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. What exactly do you mean by that, M'lady?

[HuckleB]

63. That's been explained, ad nauseum, to you.

BTW, you do remember that you confessed above, right?

[backscatter712]

56. For something as minor as a common cold, a placebo may not be a big deal...

Hey, your placebo may make you feel better. It's still a placebo - and your vial of homeopathic medicine is still water that doesn't have a single molecule of what was diluted into it - you're relying on the water's "memory" (snicker) for its health effects.

Sorry, but homeopathy is woo-woo. All you're getting is the placebo effect, and that is a fact.

Another fact: placebos do not work against cancer.

My mother lost a good friend to cancer when she chose homeopathic snake-oil instead of chemo. The chemo is unpleasant, but could have saved her life, or extended it by several years.

Sorry, but if I end up with a serious illness, I'm going for the treatments that are backed up with double-blind studies.

[HuckleB]

64. Exactly.

From: http://www.1023.org.uk/whats-the-harm-in-homeopathy.php

"Unfortunately, homeopathy can have surprising and dangerous side-effects. These have nothing to do directly with any particular homeopathic remedy, but rather they are an indirect result of what happens when homeopaths replace doctors as sources of medical advice."

These people are putting others in harm's way so they can make a profit on an imaginary treatment. If that is not a scam that should be illegal, then what scam should be illegal?