Catch the fever: It'll help you fight off infection

[OKIsItJustMe]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-11/foas-ctf110111.php

Public release date: 1-Nov-2011

Contact: Cody Mooneyhan
[e-mail]
301-634-7104
http://www.faseb.org/">Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology

Catch the fever: It'll help you fight off infection

New research published in the Journal of Leukocyte Biology demonstrates that elevated body temperature plays a vital role on the generation of effective T-cell mediated immune response

Bethesda, MD—With cold and flu season almost here, the next time you're sick, think twice before taking something for your fever. That's because scientists have found more evidence that elevated body temperature helps certain types of immune cells to work better. This research is reported in the November 2011 issue of the Journal of Leukocyte Biology (https://www.jleukbio.org).

"An increase in body temperature has been known since ancient times to be associated with infection and inflammation," said Elizabeth A. Repasky, Ph.D., a researcher involved in the work from the Department of Immunology at the Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Buffalo, New York. "Since a febrile response is highly conserved in nature (even so-called cold blooded animals move to warmer places when they become ill) it would seem important that we immunologists devote more attention to this interesting response."

Scientists found that the generation and differentiation of a particular kind of lymphocyte, known as a "CD8+ cytotoxic T-cell" (capable of destroying virus-infected cells and tumor cells) is enhanced by mild fever-range hyperthermia. Specifically, their research suggests that elevated body temperature changes the T-cells' membranes which may help mediate the effects of micro-environmental temperature on cell function. To test this, researchers injected two groups of mice with an antigen, and examined the activation of T-cells following the interaction with antigen presenting cells. Body temperature in half of the mice was raised by 2 degrees centigrade, while the other half maintained a normal core body temperature. In the warmed mice, results showed a greater number of the type of CD8 T-cells capable of destroying infected cells.

"Having a fever might be uncomfortable," said John Wherry, Ph.D., Deputy Editor of the Journal of Leukocyte Biology, "but this research report and several others are showing that having a fever is part of an effective immune response. We had previously thought that the microbes that infect us simply can't replicate as well when we have fevers, but this new work also suggests that the immune system might be temporarily enhanced functionally when our temperatures rise with fever. Although very high body temperatures are dangerous and should be controlled, this study shows that we may need to reconsider how and when we treat most mild fevers."

…

[mike_c]

1. sauna....

Yessiree bob. Just don't tell your sauna mates that you're sick if you can avoid it.... :evilgrin:

[truedelphi]

2. Yet another reason why it is so stupid to have

a flu shot.

There have been studies going back decades that show anyone who has had a high fever for a day or two (by high, I mean 101 to 102) has burned away any possible cancers.

Get the flu - and yeah, it is uncomfortable to be sick and achey, but the reward is tremendous.

Good to see that this new study is discussing the T cell increase and how the flu activiates this part of our immune system.

[mzteris]

3. it's not stupid if you're at risk.

Please remember that getting the flu can be fatal to some.

[emilyg]

4. It's not stupid for

me. My immune system is compromised from cancer treatment.

[truedelphi]

5. Since nothing I can say will dissuade you, please do follow one piece of advice -

Make sure you have the shot on a day when you are extremely fit. Never have a vaccine on a day when you are under the weather.

There are huge risks involved with flu shots. But if you 're feeling healthy on the day of the shot, you have helped yourself avoid at least some of the risks.

[trotsky]

7. "There are huge risks involved with flu shots"

1) Bullshit.
2) The far, far greater risk is actually contracting the flu.

[truedelphi]

8. Flu shots don't hurt someone until they hurt someone.

It sounds like the nurse who was involved in this particular scenario was fine with vaccines, until she ended up with Guillan Barre - video here at YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRcZZROphLM&feature=player_embedded

[trotsky]

10. You said there are "huge risks."

GB can happen to people without being vaccinated at all, so that is not a necessary consequence of the flu vaccine. Document the "huge risks," please.

[truedelphi]

14. Also if you watch the video that features the nurse - (reply 8) you find out

That of the eight people afflicted with Gillan Barre, that the nurse's family found out about in their community - only their family had the problem reported to the CDC and the vaccination reporting bureau.

And that is the average in this country.

In America, about 12% of all those experiencing problems are able to get the event reported to the proper authorities.

In France, after this last push for everyone to have the swine flu vaccine, some 16,000 people plus were reported to the authorities as having significant problems.

Since only 5 million swine flu shots in France were administered at that time, that is a most amazing 1 out of 312 people having bad reaction. And France has a much better reporting system.

Among risks associated with the flu shots are these:

One) Serious flu-like illnesses. Often these last for weeks, while the flu itself might only last two or three days
Two) the flu itself
Three) Guillan Barre
Four) narcolepsy
Five) When the shot is administered to a patient who is sick, that person has a very significant increase in their cancer risk.

[trotsky]

16. Still waiting for documentation of "huge risks."

Not just risks - HUGE risks. Document the stats. Demonstrate why they are HUGE risks - in particular, when compared to actually getting the flu.

I'll wait right here for your stats.

Thanks so much!

[truedelphi]

9. Apparently your line of thinking is not prevalent at the major health

Institutes of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland.

The major helath institutes in these lands now proclaim that there is a definite connection between swine flu vacine and narcolepsy.

Sadly, many of those who have been affected are children.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5M4rvt9DIk&feature=related

And in France, during the last big vaccine campaign of getting "everyone vaccinated" only five million of rance's eighty millin people complied with getting a swine flu shot. European media is not as pro-vaccine, and in France there have been major motion pictures relating to the games that the Pharmaceutical people play in order to get their vaccines into production.

[trotsky]

11. You said there are "huge risks."

The narcolepsy link, if proven (got a link?) evidently affected only a tiny group of people from one batch of vaccine.

Not a "huge risk" when ou consider the millions and millions who got the same vaccine and had no reaction at all.

You don't really understand what "huge risk" means, do you?

[truedelphi]

13. The link is right in the middle of the post. Jeesh! n/t

[trotsky]

15. No, that's not a link to proof, that's a link to a news report about compensation.

The US also has a system that compensates families for *suspected* vaccine injury. They don't even have to prove the vaccine caused it to get compensation - our system is very generous and is intended to err on the side of compensation.

And other sources report differently about the H1N1 vaccine:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-swine-flu-vaccine-child-narcolepsy_1.html
"The preliminary study by Finland's National Institute for Health and Welfare (THL) published a week ago said the most likely explanation of the pattern found in four to 19 year olds was the 'joint effect of the vaccine and some other factor(s).'"

But they still aren't sure. No one can say at this point whether the vaccine had anything to do with it, and certainly not you.

And you STILL haven't demonstrated you understand what a "huge risk" is. You used the term - back it up. Let's see your stats.

[truedelphi]

17. Trotsky - have you even dealt with ONE SINGLE FAMILY who has

Tried to get their information passed along official channels to the bureaucracy here in the USA?

Also, you are very dismissive of narcolepsy. Kids who have this affliction often have to be home schooled, a they cannot attend a school where they would be on the stairs, and this can mean they will fall down those stairs.

They cannot go swimming with friends unless they have an adult with them. They will not be able to drive a car.

After you have spend a couple of days reporting on families who are afflicted by vaccinations in this country, (and how difficult it is to get any headway once their child is injured) and after you have spend a couple of hours talking to doctors who research the changes in children's brains, like Dr Ron Harper at UCLA Medical School, get back to me and we can talk.

[trotsky]

18. So you have no documentation of your claims,

only excuses for why none exists.

OK, thanks!

(Additionally, in no way did I dismiss the seriousness of narcolepsy - and I suggest you refrain from making personal accusations about me or my motives. Let's keep this about facts.)

[truedelphi]

19. Officially on ignore. Have a nice life.

The nurse's video is key, because her daughter talks about how prevalent Guillan Barre is in the neighborhood/community where they live - and the fact that the doctors readily ascribe the affliction to the swine flu shots that afflicted her mom and seven others in one neighborhood.

Don't know what else you want - but if you truly do want some information contact the National Vaccine people at www.nvic.org/

Or google for it.

[HuckleB]

20. You put someone on ignore because you can't support your claim?

Really?

:shrug:

(And you're really going to push an anti-vaccine organization as support? :wow: )

[truedelphi]

23. It is a small consolation to me that I have been able to educate others.

Trotsky and you would want some unobtainable book documenting every single vaccine ever injected, with the results of what happened to that person.

I offered up the video of the nurse, whose body was assaulted by Guillan Barre syndrome after just one shot of swine flu vaccine. That video is very compelling, as her daughter speaks about how many others in the community were afflicted - a total of seven others - and that the doctors attribute the disease as being from the result of the swine flu.

Trotsky and you have never ever been satisfied with anyone talking about anything that is not M$M Big Pharma-approved medicine. And far too often, the "proofs" that the M$M Big Phara people offer up are tiny little studies that only last SIX WEEKS, (That is now all that is required, and that is now all they do) and then the drug is approved by some Big Pharma executive that the president has appointed to the FDA or the vaccine panels.

This sort of "pseudo science" has passed for science ever since Reagan, and it gets worse each and every year.

[HuckleB]

24. Based on the discussion I just read...

... it appears to be much more likely that you are only miseducating others, if you're doing anything at all.

Further, your personal attacks are worthless, as such attacks always are. What I want to see is real science, and real science follow up. I'm sorry that real science gets in the way of attempts to smear life-saving treatments.

http://hugmeimvaccinated.org/

[trotsky]

27. You claimed there were, and I quote once again, "huge risks" with the flu shot.

Your sole defense of that claim has been to acknowledge there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE for it by making the excuse that the evidence is there but no one has reported it.

Which of course raises the big hairy question of, "Well then, how the hell do YOU know if no one is reporting it?"

I also disagree strongly with what is a typical mischaracterization of my motives when my arguments cannot be dismissed - that I am some kind of shill for "big pharma" and swallow their stuff uncritically. This is simply not true and you claiming such only reveals your position to be that much weaker.

[HuckleB]

25. Regarding the BLF and her NVIC:

http://www.skepdic.com/fisherbl.html

[trotsky]

26. Remember, when you say you're putting someone on ignore, you actually have to do it.

I'm sorry that it upsets you to merely be asked to back up your statements. Keep in mind, too, that even though you are ignoring me, I will continue to correct any false information you post.

[HuckleB]

21. The correlation is very inconsistent, at best.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-flu-vaccine-and-narcolepsy/

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. I have to say…

When I was vaccinated for H1N1 a couple of years back, I was out-of-commission for a couple of days.

However, my reaction was, "Imagine what the 'real thing' would be like!"

[HuckleB]

22. As you know: Correlation is not causation.

I felt great in the days after I received mine, as did my kind, my wife, etc...

Anecdotes are fun!

[OKIsItJustMe]

29. I went with the nasal spray, live vaccine

I’ve seldom, if ever, been so violently ill.

[HuckleB]

30. That's what our kid always gets, and I've had it a few years, too.

Your illness was very likely going to hit you whether or not you got the spray.

[OKIsItJustMe]

32. So, tell me…

Why doesn’t the CDC recommend the use of Nasal-Spray vaccine by everyone?

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm#vaccinated

…

Who should not be vaccinated with the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®)?

• People less than 2 years of age
• People 50 years of age and over
• People with a medical condition that places them at high risk for complications from influenza, including those with chronic heart or lung disease, such as asthma or reactive airways disease; people with medical conditions such as diabetes or kidney failure; or people with illnesses that weaken the immune system, or who take medications that can weaken the immune system.
• Children <5 years old with a history of recurrent wheezing
• Children or adolescents receiving aspirin
• Pregnant women
• People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs or who are allergic to any of the nasal spray vaccine components.
• People with a history of Guillain–Barré Syndrome (a severe paralytic illness, also called GBS) that occurred after receiving influenza vaccine and who are not at risk for severe illness from influenza should generally not receive vaccine. Tell your doctor if you ever had Guillain-Barré Syndrome. Your doctor will help you decide whether the vaccine is recommended for you.

…

[HuckleB]

40. Ah, so you think that give credence to your single anecdote.

:rofl:

[OKIsItJustMe]

41. Interesting

So, then, you cannot answer the question.

[HuckleB]

48. Why would I need to waste my time answering the question?

That's quite disingenuous of someone who's already wasting my time by blindly defending an anecdote.

[OKIsItJustMe]

53. Right, so, instead you mock me.

So, why does the CDC offer the advice that they do?

I’ll help you.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

…

Influenza (live) vaccine side-effects

What are the risks from LAIV?

A vaccine, like any medicine, could possibly cause serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.

Live influenza vaccine viruses very rarely spread from person to person. Even if they do, they are not likely to cause illness.

LAIV is made from weakened virus and does not cause influenza. The vaccine can cause mild symptoms in people who get it (see below).

Mild Problems
Some children and adolescents 2-17 years of age have reported:

• runny nose, nasal congestion or cough
• headache and muscle aches
• fever
• wheezing
• abdominal pain or occasional vomiting or diarrhea

Some adults 18-49 years of age have reported:

• runny nose or nasal congestion
• sore throat
• cough, chills, tiredness/weakness
• headache

Severe Problems

• Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination.
• If rare reactions occur with any product, they may not be identified until thousands, or millions, of people have used it. Millions of doses of LAIV have been distributed since it was licensed, and the vaccine has not been associated with any serious problems.

…

[HuckleB]

55. I'm fairly certain that any response I would have offered would have led to that claim.

Are you saying you don't know the answer? If so, why should I inform you? If you do know the answer, why do want me to give it to you again?

It just doesn't make sense.

[OKIsItJustMe]

57. Uh huh.

Why don’t you go back and read the thread.

The CDC warns people about possible bad reactions. I got them. (It happens.)

[HuckleB]

58. Those are quite rare.

And those reactions are not necessarily because of the vaccine. On any given day, X number of people will get sick. You do understand that, right?

[OKIsItJustMe]

61. Right

They are relatively rarely reported, but they do happen, and I’d “give you dollars to donuts” that my symptoms were brought on by the vaccine. i.e. they were classic “flu-like symptoms.”

However, as I’ve said, that did not stop me from getting a flu vaccine last Winter.


Just don’t pretend that adverse reactions never happen. They do. That’s why the CDC gives out information sheets along with the vaccines.

Actually, I generally expect minor symptoms following a vaccination, and consider them to be a sign that it is doing its job. I think it’s a fair trade (a few symptoms now, instead of being sick for a week to 10 days later.) I suspect that more people have minor symptoms in reaction to vaccines than report them.


That was the only time I’ve ever had a live flu vaccine, and the only time I’ve had such a strong reaction.

[HuckleB]

62. Thank you for confirming that you don't understand it.

And for confirming that you have not read any of my posts before responding.

Now that deserves a good :rofl:

[OKIsItJustMe]

64. .

[OKIsItJustMe]

46. So, tell me…

Would you consider mocking someone else to be a “personal attack?”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=111701&mesg_id=111750

[HuckleB]

49. So pointing out the likely reality of your anecdote is equated to mocking?

Interesting.

[OKIsItJustMe]

50. No, the cute little ROFL character (unless you thought I was trying to make a joke)

That’s an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem">ad hominem if I ever saw one. I just didn’t realize it was hypocritical as well.

[HuckleB]

51. Cool!

I'm glad you found a distraction so you could ignore the likely reality of your anecdote.

Here's another: :rofl:

[OKIsItJustMe]

54. By the way, I love the way your counter my anecdote with your own

Strangely enough, you haven’t cited any authoritative source. I have.

[HuckleB]

56. I've cited sources repeatedly on this matter at DU.

You know the reality of the science. You just want to rehash it again, and that's just plain disingenuous at best.

In reality, it's disrespectful. Yet, here you are saying that I'm mocking you.

Interesting.

PS: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/flu-vaccine-efficacy/

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodpharma/sbd-smd/drug-med/sbd_smd_2011_flumist_129379-eng.php

I could go on and on, but my time is more valuable than you believe it to be.

[OKIsItJustMe]

59. Tell you what…

Go back and reread the thread. See what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.

[HuckleB]

60. I know what you wrote, and what you've continued to claim.

Nice try at wasting my time yet again.

Goodbye!

[trotsky]

42. Interesting.

I got the nasal spray variety of H1N1 and never experienced even so much as a sniffle.

[OKIsItJustMe]

43. Sure

Different people will have different reactions. You didn’t notice yours. I noticed mine.

Here’s the way I look at it: Vaccination can be summed up as, “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.”

If a vaccination does not elicit some sort of response from the immune system, then it wasn’t effective. The whole idea of a vaccination is to elicit a response.


I believe in vaccination. Although I had a dramatic reaction in 2009, that didn’t stop me from getting a shot in 2010.


http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/whoshouldvax.htm

…

The following groups should not receive the nasal spray vaccine (LAIV):

• Adults 50 years of age and older or children from 6 through 23 months of age. (Children younger than 6 months should not get either influenza vaccine.)


• People who have ever had a severe allergic reaction to eggs. People who have had a mild reaction to egg—that is, one which only involved hives—may receive TIV (not LAIV) with additional precautions. Make sure your healthcare provider knows about any allergic reactions.


• People who have had a severe reaction to the vaccine in the past.


• People with asthma and children younger than 5 years with one or more episodes of wheezing within the past year.


• Pregnant women.


• Anyone with certain muscle or nerve disorders (such as seizure disorders or cerebral palsy) that can lead to breathing or swallowing problems.


• Anyone with a weakened immune system.


• Anyone in close contact with someone whose immune system is so weak they require care in a protected environment (such as a bone marrow transplant unit). Close contacts of other people with a weakened immune system (such as those with HIV) may receive LAIV. Healthcare personnel in neonatal intensive care units or oncology clinics may receive LAIV.


• Children or adolescents on long-term aspirin treatment.


• People with a history of Guillain–Barré Syndrome (a severe paralytic illness, also called GBS) that occurred after receiving influenza vaccine and who are not at risk for severe illness from influenza should generally not receive vaccine. Tell your doctor if you ever had Guillain-Barré Syndrome. Your doctor will help you decide whether the vaccine is recommended for you.


• Your doctor will help you decide whether the vaccine is recommended for you.


• Tell your doctor if you have gotten any other vaccines in the past 4 weeks.


• Anyone with a nasal condition serious enough to make breathing difficult, such as a very stuffy nose, should get the flu shot instead.


• People who are moderately or severely ill should usually wait until they recover before getting flu vaccine. If you are ill, talk to your doctor about whether to reschedule the vaccination. People with a mild illness can usually get the vaccine.

…

[trotsky]

44. What you are assuming, though...

is that your reaction was due to the vaccine. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. It's a logical fallacy.

[OKIsItJustMe]

45. Sure, there’s no concrete proof here

On the other hand:

1. I am generally quite healthy.
2. M'lady told me that she had never seen me so ill,
   and…
3. My illness followed shortly after receiving the live vaccine.

Is it absolute proof? No, and I don’t claim that it is. We have no control group (would I have gotten so sick if I hadn’t received the vaccine?)

On the other hand, there’s enough evidence there for me to believe there is some sort of causal relationship.


FWIW: The previous year, she was given a flu vaccine and a pneumonia vaccine on the same day, and became quite ill. When I called the office seeking advice, our GP was on vacation and another doctor in the same practice said, “That’s why I never give my patients flu and pneumonia vaccines on the same day.”

(Notice the CDC advice regarding “any other vaccines in the past 4 weeks.”)

[trotsky]

47. And as you noted,

who knows how sick you would have gotten if you had the real flu?

I got my regular flu vaccine this year as I was dealing with a nasty cold I picked up from my kids. I felt no worse for wear. Everybody has stories. But I don't extrapolate from my story that everyone should get a vaccine while they are sick.

[OKIsItJustMe]

52. Right, and if you notice, I made no attempt to say that people should not get vaccinated

Instead, as I wrote, my reaction was to think about how bad an actual case of H1N1 might be (knowing, as I did, about the H1N1 deaths in Asia.)

[LeftishBrit]

6. This is not saying that it's good for your immunity in general to get the flu

It's saying that if you *do* get the flu, or similar illness, having a fever may help you fight it off.

It's not evidence against getting a flu vaccine; it's possibly evidence against overdoing medicines to reduce your temperature when you are ill.

[bemildred]

28. It is interesting to consider this though, in the context of the other study

which IIRC said some people get flu asyptomatically. Why don't they get a fever whereas some others do? And why does it not make them "sick", even though they are infected? How does that work?

I reached the conclusion some time ago that the thing to do with fevers is watch them, and when they get over 103 or so bring them down under that.

I tried flu shots a couple times, considered them not worth the trouble, for myself, but if a serious strain came along I would do it.

[trotsky]

31. I also consider them not worth the trouble for myself personally.

But I do it for those around me, and those for whom I might end up being in the chain of contacts that infects them.

[bemildred]

33. My wife is a teacher, I'm retired, she infects me, not the other way around.

If I was in public life, that would be different.

[trotsky]

34. Oh, you are housebound and never interact with any other human beings?

Sorry to hear that.

[bemildred]

35. I'm interacting with you, does that count? nt

[trotsky]

36. You are assuming I'm human.

But joking aside, you know very well what I mean. And I'm guessing you don't like where that is going.

[bemildred]

37. You are way overestimating how excited this subject gets me.

I know there are people here that get all emotional about health care in general and vaccinations in particular, but I am not one of them. But I don't expect that you will accept that either, I must be lying to conceal my rage.

[trotsky]

38. Just confronting you with facts.

All of us can transmit the flu to others despite our best efforts. I acknowledge this and get a flu shot as a result. You have made a different decision. So be it - I can't force you to get a shot and have no intention to. But the reality is, your choice is not made in a vacuum. It does affect others.

[bemildred]

39. Thanks for clearing that up.

Great dialog. Much was learned. Your wisdom is appreciated.
:hi:

[Deep13]

66. What the fuck are you talking about? Burning off cancers?

What is the source of this information? Name one scientific, clinic study that found this to be true.

[beam me up scottie]

63. I caught Scarlet Fever as a child.

I don't remember much because I was delirious, but let's just say it was more than a little "uncomfortable".

Hopefully people will read the whole thing and not just the catchy title.

Contact your physician before letting your kid's fever kill them.

[Deep13]

65. Yeah, but it can also kill you.

Too much of a fever can damage ones brain.

[Celebration]

67. this has been known for decades

Well, known known. Not sure about "scientifically."

I was rarely given aspirin when I was a child, unless my temperature hit 103. The reason given to me by my MD dad was that fever has a purpose, and that the purpose is to quell the infection.

Of course sometimes there can be too much of a good thing, which is why I was sometimes given aspirin.