Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

15 days ago I quit smoking.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Health Donate to DU
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:17 PM
Original message
15 days ago I quit smoking.
I am a success at it. And I HATE not smoking. I HATE it. I never realized how much I like cigarettes; how much my life was structured around smoking them, as a source of relaxation.

Don't get me wrong: I no longer feel cravings. Or, at least, not many and no unmanageable.

But I am totally without motivation. Completely lost. I miss the nicotine rush.

I am waiting for my electronic cigarettes to arrive. And, yes, I am going to use them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ogneopasno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I quit more than 10 years ago, and I still miss it. The missing never goes away.
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 05:20 PM by ogneopasno
I'm glad I quit and I'm pretty sure I'll never start again. But I know what you mean about missing it.

There are some meals where my partner and I look at each other and say, "That was fabulous! The only thing that would make it better..."

Congratulations on your 15 days!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you're over the cravings, you're over half-way there.
(I'm down to a pack every two/three days.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. right. the rest is mental.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I don't care about being "there" or "not there."
That's not the point. I can, now, go without cigarettes, with just the merest of cravings here and there. Not a big deal anymore.

That's not the point, though.

I miss cigarettes. I miss the structure that they gave to my life. I miss the indulgence I guess you could say. And the nicotine rush.

This is no longer a matter of being successful at quitting. I have quit and it's done. But I am very, very unhappy for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. in the beginning if felt
like i had lost my best friend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. i stopped 25 years ago.
for the first 2-1/2 years i missed it. after that i found it repulsive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. What do you do to replace the indulgence?
??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. exercise. i wasn't going
to fall into the trap of eating as so many people do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good for you.
Hang in there. I quit 13 years ago. It ain't easy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. it was one of the hardest thing
i ever did in my life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's your addiction talking
All those ideas would go away the second you had a nicotine fix.

If you like breathing in smoke so much, stick your head up a chimney. Oooh, yeah, that doesn't sound fun at all.

It's nicotine addiction. Physical and emotional. Remember that, and you'll be less likely to pick up a cigarette in a moment of weakness.

Good Luck!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Addictions don't talk. *I* am talking here.
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 05:32 PM by Th1onein
You just choose to discount what I am saying because you have your own issues. This is not an episode of Intervention where you get to spew bromides.

I miss smoking cigarettes because they provided structure in my life. I would give myself a "break" and go outside to smoke, during working hours. At home, when I was working, I would smoke. Cigarettes gave me something that I can't get anymore--now, the question is, not WHO or WHAT is talking, but rather HOW to make up for that? How to overcome that?

I don't want to hear some dismissive crap, like "Oh! That's your addiction talking!" I want to get some real pointers on how to fill this VOID in my life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Oh my god, I am trying to help
Yes, addictions do talk. They're like a little pacman in your head that just wants to eat its source of pleasure with no end in sight. It will tell you anything to get you to give it the addiction.

As to what to do, well as soon as ALL of the addiction goes away, there won't be any void anymore.

As far as using cigarettes as a coping mechanism, you may have to find new means to cope. Like taking a "cigarette break" some other way. Buying yourself a magazine or CD as a treat a couple of times a week. Replace all your clothes that have burn holes in them.

But mostly, truly, it is just the way addiction works. A year from now, you won't even think twice about some of the things you always did with a cigarette.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Why would she have burnholes in her clothes?
I smoke and my clothes are intact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Look closer
My god. I smoked for almost 30 years. Don't pretend to tell me about smoking or quitting smoking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. And I've smoked for forty.
Not everyone is exactly the same. And I don't have burn holes in my clothes. Even small ones.

And addictions don't "talk." You know better.

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings here. I'm just trying to get beyond the knee-jerk bullshit cliches that usually come with this kind of discussion and get some ideas on how to break free of this relationship.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Yes they absolutely do
This thread is full of your addiction talking. You are not your addiction. You do not have a relationship with smoke. If you do, go sit by the fire and talk to the smoke. In any event, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. Oh, and don't smoke even if your ass falls off, or your addiction makes you afraid it's going to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. I KNOW that you're trying to help.
But you must understand that repeating cliches does NOT help. It is like responding to a fire alarm with the statement that fire burns. Do you understand?

I don't think of cigarettes as a coping mechanism. I use them as a reward system. Now, the only reward that I had was gone. Now, you can sit there and tell me that that is an addiction talking, which does about as much as telling me that fire burns, or you can give me some ideas as to how to replace that reward system. I'm afraid that it is very well ingrained in my life. It's a daily thing, an hourly thing, and even a moment by moment thing. Any suggestions on how to replace that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. It's how I quit
Everything I *thought* I needed a cigarette for was just an excuse to get the nicotine. When I quit, with lozenges, every time I *thought* I needed a cigarette, I told myself that I wouldn't stick my head up a chimney to breathe in smoke, so I obviously didn't want a cigarette for the smoke. I wanted it for the nicotine. Insert lozenge. Once I had that firmly engrained in my mind, there was no longer any situation where I could rationalize smoking.

I don't do anything different today than I did when I was smoking. I get up, have coffee, sometimes I eat a bowl of cereal. When I'm hungry, I eat some fruit or popcorn. When I get tired of doing some chore, I just sit down. I don't think about cigarettes as a reward because that was just a rationalization I subconsciously made up to get the nicotine. That's how an addiction acts.

This is simply something you will have to go through. Make a list of things you've been putting off, from skiing to reading to organizing photos to cleaning out the garage. When you get antsy, sit down, take a deep breath, and get out the list. Just get something new done, a little at a time.

After 3 years, I am so used to not smoking that I absent-mindedly asked my son to put his cigarette out before he got in the car the other day, and I NEVER thought I would ever do that to somebody.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. you're right....
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 05:44 PM by gblady
you miss the structure that cigs gave your life...

now you will of necessity find something else to provide that...
and that may take awhile...and only you can figure out what that is.

I remember feeling like I'd lost my best friend...a constant companion
that was there through thick and thin...

However...I would caution you not to underestimate the power of the addiction...
and don't, for a minute, get cocky about mastering it.

It's been 23 years for me...and I know, without any doubt...
that if I ever had just one....I'd be right back on 'um...

And because it was so incredibly difficult for me to stop for good (30+ attempts)
I will never have just one.

AND PS....Congrats on your 15 days!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. So what do you do
to replace the smoking. Or do you pretty much do what you always did, once the first year of cravings and uneasiness was gone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. I don't know. That's the question.
Cigarettes have curved themselves around every minute of my day. I don't feel quite "there," or as sharp as I usually am. I don't feel normal anymore, and I do feel like I miss my best friend.

I eat a LOT of licorice. And those long sausage things that are dried up? I eat a bunch of those, too. Maybe I should deprive myself of something so that I can have it as a reward, like I used to do cigarettes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. i understand what you mean.
the first year i associated everything with smoking. i had never driven a car without smoking. i never talked on the phone without smoking. when i went to the airport to pick my mom up. i said "this is the first time i'm in an airport without a cigarette". of course 25 years ago smoking was not "verbotin" like it is now.

my husband stopped 12 years ago and he still misses it. said a few weeks ago, he's going to start again if he lives to be 80. i told him he's nuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. the first few days i kept saying
i wanted a cigarette. every time i did my husband (who was still smoking) put a dirty ash tray under my nose and said "is this what you want". of course, i said "no".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your lungs thank you. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DonEBrook Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. I quit in August of last year after smoking for 47 years...2 to 3 packs a day.
It was surprisingly easy...I just stopped and decided "no more." I found myself 'reaching' for a cigarette several times a day but that must just have been habit, I never had much craving. So I know it can be done. good luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. sounds like you need to replace...
or fill that time with something else. Maybe something physical..like taking a walk, brushing your teeth, writing in a journal..I don't know but something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
watrwefitinfor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. I am so pleased to hear you have made it this far.
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 05:44 PM by watrwefitinfor
I admire anyone who can get through fifteen days without a cigaret. You are a tremendously strong-willed person. People who have never smoked have no idea what you have been through, or how strong you are.

What I realized, after I quit, was that I had lost my best friend. After the hard physical withdrawal of the first few days; after a couple of weeks of learning to enjoy a cup of coffee without the cigaratte (and I do!) after I had accomplished getting through all the things that left you screaming for a cigaret, like a meal, a drink, sex... There was still a dreadful yearning and longing for what I couldn't have.

I attribute it to losing your best friend. That cigaret was always there for you, no matter whether anyone or anything else ever was. It was your psychological prop. You could always count on it to pick you up. To put things into perspective. To make all the problems seem smaller.

Now you have to juggle life without that friend. What you are going through now, to me, resembled nothing more than grief. Grief for that friend you had to put aside.

Working through the grief was a lot like working through any other grief. It gets a little easier each day.

Now, seven years later, it doesn't even bother me much to be around others who are smoking. My kids come over and light up and it usually doesn't bother me, except that they haven't been able to quit yet. Once in awhile, just occasionally, I'll get a whiff of that smoke just the right way, and that minute I know I'd love nothing more than to light up a cigaret with them.

But it passes in just a minute. If it doesn't, I just chase them and their cigarette right out! :-) But it always passes. You can do without ANYTHING for five minutes, till it passes.

Wat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walkaway Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. You can cope. It's as simple as not smoking....
...that said, it was difficult for me to go through every "situation" good or bad for at least a year.

But I never even thought of giving in and smoking. I smoked one to two packs a day for thirty years and stopped six years ago. Good luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. Just don't smoke for one more day
you can decide what to do after that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Perhaps taking up
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 05:53 PM by Mojorabbit
a hobby like crochet or knitting or painting. Something to give your hands to do?
on edit
my BIL kept a dumdum lollipop in his mouth as a substitute and had a hot cup of tea whenever he had the craving when he quit. He made the tea in a little ritualistic manner, taking his time making and savoring it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. After I had quit for two months I smoked a cigarette.Man was I high
So high I had to sit down for an hour til the feeling passed. and that was my last smoke some 35 years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. think of the money you save.
and buy something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
29. some advise.
my hairdresser stopped smoking. she used the drug chantix. anyway she got cocky -- thought she could have an occasional cigarette -- like with cocktails. guess what? she's hooked again. she tried to stop with the patch and couldn't. much as she doesn't want to she's going to use chantix again. she had weird side effects with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I tried Chantix. It was horrible.
I had nightmares. I woke up in the middle of the night, wide awake. It's not worth takig that shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. I quit 40 days ago
I don't HATE not smoking like you do, but I'm still trying to come up with a *perfect* replacement for the "break." I spent 35 years using cigs as a reward for finishing something, as a "break" in the middle of something, and as a way to switch gears between things. I also used them as a "thinking" aid. From my experience it seems that you're a lot like me - the main thing you need is something - anything that you can use in the same way you used cigs.

For me, it has to be relaxing, so exercise is out. Knitting and such takes too much concentration... the idea is to give my mind a break, too. Sugarless suckers work sometimes, but not always. But they're on the right track, I think. Something to sit back and "do" for about five minutes, without having to put a lot of thought into it. So that my mind can move on, settle, whatever.

I'd say try sugarless suckers. They're pretty close to the right thing. This site has a lot of choices, for not a lot of money, and they're nice folks, too: http://diabeticfriendly.com/

Do note, they're not necessarily low calorie, but they won't rot your teeth, and, IMHO, they taste pretty good.

GOOD LUCK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I'm Worthy Of Rest and Relaxation
Giving myself permission to take a break whenever *I* decided *I* damned well wanted one, because I have that right, cathartic. I lay back and meditate. And give myself permission to not finish whatever it is if I don't want to. I'm in charge because I say so. I love it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. THERE you go! Someone who GETS it!
Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Geez, what is the DEAL with people on this group who think that have to lecture someone about quitting smoking when they've already made the choice to quit? I even had one guy following me around here, lecturing me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I'm sorry for your experience.
I know there are many people who have "committed" to quitting that need to repeat all the arguments against smoking at every opportunity. Try not to let it bother you... they're doing it for themselves, really, not you. Some people need to do it, and I tend to just let them, knowing that it's a lot harder for some folks to remain committed than for others.

Anyone who needs to repeat their arguments to me, feel free! I'm actually fine witn not smoking, but if you need to say it, I'm happy to listen and help you re-commit in that way.

I'm a little amazed that I haven't had more trouble, actually, but my "quit" was one of those "this is it, I'm done, and don't look back" experiences. Hence my attention to finding replacements, because smoking just isn't an option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Post 15
"As to what to do, well as soon as ALL of the addiction goes away, there won't be any void anymore.

As far as using cigarettes as a coping mechanism, you may have to find new means to cope. Like taking a "cigarette break" some other way. Buying yourself a magazine or CD as a treat a couple of times a week. Replace all your clothes that have burn holes in them."

Yes, I get it.

But truly, still, once the actual addiction is gone, all this other stuff will mostly fade away. You may have to deal with a few issues cigarettes were hiding, like treating yourself well because you deserve it, but for the most part, the "relationship" is just counterfeit. Bullshit. It will evaporate just like the wisps of cigarette smoke. Don't worry about it. This Too Shall Pass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. My sweet friend, Sandnsea
I know what you're saying, but you do know that you have to replace that cig, and not just wait until the addiction passes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Well that is very sweet
and at least I gave you something to do for a few hours. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. As an ex-smoker, I sympathize, with you...however....
....you are posting on an open message board about your experience quitting smoking.

Nobody, maybe not even yourself, knows what you need to make it happen and get through one more day.

People are offering advice and ideas and critique and encouragement, because you seem to soliciting those things. Getting irritated with people who are just offering their own insights and hoping to help is certainly an option.

Hopefully, when you feel more comfortable with this change you have made in your day to day life, you will be able to look back on most of the things you find irritating now and accept the gift of your fellow posters in the spirit in which it was given.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. I'm getting irritated at being lectured.
And I think that's perfectly normal, especially when I asked a VERY SPECIFIC QUESTION.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. It's not that I don't recognize these "gifts," Liberal Veteran
Or that I don't recognize them as trying to help. The thing is that I am asking very specific questions which don't have a thing to do with reasons to quit. It is more a matter of HOW, than WHY, at this point, you see? No matter how "comfortable with this change" I become, it does not change basic things, such as asking a question and expecting an answer to that question, instead of lectures that make other people feel good. Don't ask me why this happens in response to this topic, but people have almost a religious fervor about them when it comes to cigarettes. It's the strangest damned thing I've ever seen.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. hmmmmmm........
Edited on Mon Dec-15-08 08:38 PM by gblady
reminds me of my young adult son....
every sentence out of my mouth is a lecture to him...

that said...I only answered in the good faith of wanting to help...
the been there, done that thing...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. I quit 6 months ago. I used to go for walks and buy a popsicle every time
I had a crave. Pretty soon the craves were gone and I had new routines. I don't smoke any more and I'm loving it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Health Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC