Question regarding Acupuncture or Chiropractic alternative care

[Dorian Gray]

I was curious if any of you had experience with these two treatments. I have low level lower back pain. Nothing super-serious, but it's a dull achiness that is almost always there. I've tried deep tissue massage, and though it gets better for a day or two, it always comes back. Especially when I exercise. I've been working on getting strengthening my lower back and stretching the muscles there (and my hips), as that's been recommended by a personal trainer at the gym. (I do exercises every night for 15 minutes to this end.) Still, lower back pain. (But low-level pain.)

So I was curious about trying acupuncture or chiropractic. Have any of you had success with these treatments? Have they been effective for you? And does anybody have any links to medical research? My insurance does pay for a few sessions of each in a year, and I've found a couple of practitioners in my neighborhood. I guess, though, that I'm worried that they will be flim flammy type people who will try to get me to come in three times a week for the next two years in order to get better.

I guess I'm interested in your anecdotal stories of treatment and whether it worked for you.

[lazer47]

1. Acupuncture is over 3000 yrs old and proven, Chiropractic

relif isn't that old and is dubious at best, Acupuncture on the ther hand has been around longer than A.M.A and is the predominate health care in the orient...and it works,,,IMHO

[Lebam in LA]

2. Acupuncture saved me from surgery

I had carpal tunnel in both hands. One was so bad it was put in a cast by an orthopedic and I was told they only thing I could do was have surgery. I was terrified at the prospect of surgery on my hands. I decided to try alternative medicine. I had 6 acupuncture treatments and was completely cured. You have nothing to lose in trying. I recommend it 1000%.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I've had chiropractic treatments

and sometimes they have worked, and sometimes not--it really depends upon the chiropractor. There are a lot of different adjustment techniques. Some DCs use direct manipulation, others use machines, while others use muscle testing to help guide them on their adjustments.

If you are a bit unsure whether this is the way to go, you may wish to see an osteopath, who is an MD trained in chiropractic techniques.

Personally, I've had a chiropractor cure me of lingering pneumonia. I'd had a bad case, and there was still congestion that inhalers and drugs had not gotten rid of. My MD at the time told me I'd be on inhalers the rest of my life. Since I'd coughed so bad my back was out, I asked his nurse to recommend a chiropractor, and got the name. The DC used muscle testing and a "clicker" to trigger points on my back to give me relief. Then he said, "I'll get rid of that congestion", did clicks to my sinuses and chest--and the crud in my lungs left and I was clear within a day. Note that this doctor's technique was actually using the acupuncture pressure points--he just used tactile stimulate rather than needles to get the job done. He's deceased, but there are others who use an acupressure technique that I know works--http://www.futurevisionsfoundation.org/et.html .

[beam me up scottie]

4. Have you tried yoga yet?

I really doubt that chriroquackery and acupuncture can "cure" you, but I finally got relief from severe sciatica pain with yoga.

[Dorian Gray]

14. You know

I just started taking Yoga classes about a month ago. I really like it, but I've been doing a general Basic Hatha class. I do think that the Yoga place I go to offers classes for back pain, so perhaps I will give that a shot.

[conscious evolution]

17. Yoga and tai chi help maintain my bad back.

It took a chiropractor to get my vertabrae back in place first,though.

Chiro seldom works with one treatment,however.They can get the vertabrae back in place in one treatment but until the connecting muscles and tendons get used to being back to their normal tensions they will just pull the vertabrae back out of whack.
A good chiropractor will use massage and use physical therapy in addition to adjustments.Most will also reccommend tai chi or some types of yoga.Someone mentioned kundalini yoga.Don't use that style for bad backs.While it is a very powerful form of yoga it is not really suitable for bad backs.It is not a yoga for beginners,imo.

[eShirl]

5. a few things that helped my lower back pain

book: 3-Minutes to a Pain-Free Life
(I HATE the title) written by Dr. Joseph Weisberg, P.T., PhD
The core of his program is a series of 6 stretches that you do in sequence for 30 seconds each. This was developed over his decades as a physical therapist for his patients as well as his own self-care/maintenance.

VHS: Beginning Callanetics and Callanetics AM/PM
Similar in many ways to Pilates, perhaps a bit less althetic, it strengthens the core muscles of the spine and pelvis, as well as other muscles essential to posture, while simultaneously encouraging your tight areas to relax their tension.

DVD: Kundalini Yoga for Beginners and Beyond
I haven't done the "Beyond" half yet, but the part for beginners is all done from comfortable seated and kneeling positions. If I didn't know it was a kind of yoga I would never have guessed.

[FormerDittoHead]

6. You have to view Chiropractors as massage therapists and not doctors.

I used to see Chiropractors, many different ones. I didn't become skeptical of them until after I had a LOT of experience with quite a few of them.

First off, you CAN get good results with Chiropractic therapy, but it all depends upon the nature of your malady and what kind of Chiropractor you get.

First off, I take it you've never seen a Chiropractor. You should know that in Chiropractic school, they are taught a lot of BS. They take umpteen marketing and practice mgmt courses more than traditional doctors. Chiropractors will tell you that having a straight back and neck is the key to preventing diseases like cancer. The science of all this is quackery.

The bottom line is that you're in pain, and you want to relieve that pain.

Know there are different kinds of Chiropractors. The first "saw-bones" Chiropractors I used to see were crack-ups. A little joke, but seriously, these guys (and I've had a woman Chiropractor) were real SNAP-POP Chiropractors. Some people out there are very squeamish about that kind of 'manipulation', but that was the kind of treatment I responded to best for my periodic pinched shoulder nerve.

A new "school" of Chiropractic emerged, however, and I found them to be worthless. They involve a form of Shiatsu (pressure point massage) and a plunger device which administers a measured pressure "pop" at given pressure points. I won't go into detail, but this form of treatment, IMO, borders on quackery beyond what any massage would give you.

Furthermore, and this was a pet peeve of mine from the very beginning, is their taking Xrays. This is kind of a profit-center for them and while perhaps an initial viewing may be warranted to exclude injuries or something REALLY wrong with you, the visit-to-visit care doesn't require Xrays. Once, switching from one Chiropractor to another, they insisted upon taking new Xrays and paying out of pocket at the time, this became a real sticking point with me, knowing that they really didn't need them in order to pop my back.

I've given up on Chiropractors because I've simply found that Advil taken in the needed doses does the trick for me. Anti-Inflammatories are fantastic. Otherwise, the key is BALANCED MOVEMENT.

[Dorian Gray]

15. Thanks for all that

I worry about that, too. I've had a few friends who have loved their chiropracters, but I've also had a few who have gone to some who seem like total scam artists and talk about all the things that you do. One tried to sell my friend a whole year of sessions for $5000.00. I didn't know if that was more the norm or not.

[uppityperson]

16. Chiropractors are not massage therapists, are body workers though.

I am a massage therapist, and no, chiropractors do not do what I do. They deal with bone alignments, I deal with soft tissue (muscles, tendons, ligaments, fascia). However, soft tissue affects hard tissue and alignments, and the reverse also.

This is what I do, try to get balance, right/left, up/down, front/back, etc/cte. What you do affects how you move, how you move affects what you do. What I consider good body workers do this also, and I am limited in whom I refer people to for what (which PT, LMP, DC, personal trainer, etc).

There are different types of chiropractors, and massage therapists, some are good and some are quacks.

Some people do well with the crackers, some with the activators. Some of each are competent, some just out to make money and have people come back forever.

My advice is to look for someone who looks at causation, not just bandaid fixes. Why does your (whatever) hurt, what makes it keep "going out" and how can you stop that.

Different states regulate chiropractors, and massage therapists, differently. Each person, each practitioner, each issue, is different. There is no one "right" answer for everyone.

[Jim__]

7. I've been to a number of different chiropractors for lower back pain.

The back-cracker type of chiropractor. Thay've always worked for me, pretty much on the first visit. They crack your back and you're done.

I've been to MDs for the same problems. They try to treat theproblem with muscle relaxors. That'smporary fix, but, as soon as the muscle relaxor wears off, the pain comes back.

[NV Whino]

8. I've had acupuncture for other things, but go to a chiropractor

for back/neck pain.

My guy uses the activator and it works wonderfully well. I usually respond with one treatment. The key is to treat problems as soon as you can. If you've been living with a problem for a while, it may take more than one treatment.

But bear in mind, lower back pain can be indicative of problems other than "structural."

[AllieB]

9. I'm generally skeptical of acupuncture and chiropractic treatments, BUT

I go to a sports chiropractor occasionally for the myriad of sports injuries that I've accumulated over the course of my life. He is not new agey and helped correct my form so that I could run injury- and pain-free. He is also one of the chiropractors for the Celtics and Patriots, and treats elite runners. He is the only chiropractor who's been effective for me. I saw several after two car accidents, and their treatments were not particularly helpful.

[jaundicedi]

10. I've been using chiropracters on and off for years when needed ...

...I generally find that the LEAST expensive ones give the best results! Not using X-rays is one way the one I have used keep the cost down. Some refuse to work with insurance and pass the savings on. These have given me the fastest most lasting results. Hope that helps.

[Warpy]

11. Back crackers are best for acute pain, IMO

but they can also guide you on some back strengthening exercises. Physical therapists will also do this for you should you pursue this through your physician.

Acupuncture is good temporary treatment for pain. You will probably need to go in once or twice a week to keep it under control until the exercise kicks in.

Your best long term hope is back strengthening exercise.

[sam sarrha]

12. i had Carpal tunnel so bad i could hardly hold anything in my hands, the constant pain kept me awake

the best thing you can do is go to your dr and have him send you to preventive therapy/ and therapy
learn the exercises, do them every day, you get pain you favor that side the other side gets stronger and pulls the other side out of place, ligaments get damages and it happens easier the next time,

lay on your back.. slowly raise one leg, knee straight, as high as is comfortable, bo the same with the other.. did one go higher, if it did you are begging for a permanent back injury. go to a doctor if you have back pain., get exercises,

have your dr send you to a couple therapy sessions..especially preventive motion training, find a good therapy clinic on http://www.angieslist.com,or ask the dr or nurses, not all therapy centers are really really good.

they will have you doing stuff like this http://www.1backpain.com/back_exercises.htm

you need to learn how to not further harm your back.. there are books with pictures..with things like.. never stand at a bench and ever put a weight anywhere other than right close in front of you then push it slowly forward, if you need to move a weight over, don't twist with it and set it down, thats begging for a life time of gut wrenching pain. shuffle your feet till its in front of you or push it to the side. don't set it down at a distance, hold it against your stomach slide it down, when you hold something at a distance from you the "Disk" between 2 vertebra becomes a Fulcrum and the pounds per square inch on your disk go up by X2 to X500, the 2 vertebra do this > eventually the disk is so damaged you reach over to pick up a dime and your disk herniates..it wasn't the dime, it was long term habitual bad body mechanics.. you can damage the spinal column and also end up with a paralyzed leg and a bad back that morphine cant help.. just depends on how it blows. i spent 5 weeks in the Virginia Mason hospital/and their back pain clinic. i bent over and slid a 20 pound box 12 inches to the "side" on a waxed floor with one hand, i turned into an old man with numb feet at age 32..

i'm 6'6" tall, at work the boss says pick up the other end of this (off at the floor).. i reply, "that weighs 284 pounds.. i'm 60, i'm way too old to pick up stuff, get 3-4 of these young guys here to do that, there are a lot of em around beg'n for a back injury" i always tell people when they screw up.. it does little good till someone gets hurt.. and when the boss notifies us who go hurt and is in the hospital and might not come back for 6 months.. people cut their eyes over to me.. quite a few are doing better,..mostly the older people

your back has mileage on it.. bad body mechanics is like driving a car crazy and you get 20,000 miles on the tires instead of 100,000, or hit a curb and blow em out altogether
.....................................................................................
here's my alternate medicine stories

one treatment of acupuncture relieved all the symptoms.. its been 4 years.

i had a skiing accident, i nearly broke my neck, my head was stuck tilted to the left with my ear almost on my shoulder, i was having horrible painful spasms if i moved at all. my doctor said that it would fuse in that position and quit hurting some, my mother took me to her chiropractor, i had one treatment and it got my neck straight, i had so much ligament damage that it would go out and hurt pretty bad on occasion, i'd go back and he'd fix it, the 3rd time i went back in 3 months he asked me if i slept on my stomach, i did, he told me not to ever again, that the ligaments would never be the same.. i'm a beat up 60 years old, back injury, chiropractic was my only relief, it takes many years to heal from a back sprain.. doctors do nothing, i was sent to a back pain clinic, where i learned how to move and prevent re-injuring it. that was a life saver.

i still have go to the chiropractor a couple times a year when i mess up and tweak the bad ligaments, they allow the vertebra to shift position, causing really bad pain. ive been in several bad accidents, was a bike racer when i was young. really active mountaineering.. i an big, so i always got the hardest work to do. i'm pretty beat up.

i had surgery my hand starting 10-7-08, i was told to keep it elevated.. but not told to do exercises so i wouldn't be crippled for life from inactivity in that position.. i ended up going to therapy weekly for a year and a half and having to do special very painful exercises several times a day, i couldn't raise my arm above my shoulder. if i rotated my arm the tendon would "SNAP.!!!" out of place so bad my wife could hear it in the other room. that would hurt bad for at least 10 minutes. my GP doctor said the shoulder wasn't going to ever get better

i had been sitting in my recliner so long.. i had 4 surgeries on tendons, grafting nerves, i had 18 hrs total of 4 surgeries, 22 days in the hospital in 16 months. i went to my wifes Chiropractor because of sciatica-pain down the side of the leg from L5-S1, i was telling him the story of the hand and mentioned the shoulder they messed up.. he did a manipulation on it and 2 more since.. i now have 95% use of my arm and no snapping tendons..no pain at all.

my mother was going to have 3 maybe 4 vertebra fused in her back...in the early 70's, then it was just brutal, and rarely successful, she was a total invalid, in horrific constant pain, she cried all the time.. her friends came by in a van and picked her up and took her to their chiropractor.. that guy was really old time special.. he checked her out and said he'd fix her up for $400. she could come in as many times as she wanted till she could walk, stand, sit without pain. she went 3-4 times a day for a week, 2 times a day for a couple weeks.. etc. and in 2 months she was pain free. she is now 88 and reads 5 books a week, gets around without a cane, very active, visits shut-ins with the church weekly, walks a lot for exercise, has very little pain in her life.

if you go to a chiropractor i'd check on Angieslist.com there is a very minor fee..$4 i think, i found the best dentist i've ever been to, they list service providers in your area, people who have been to them rate them, rate them A-F.. people say..'once you go to a chiropractor, you have to go all the time..' well by the time people get really desperate because doctors cant help them.. they have long term chronic problems. like me. my ligaments cant hold my vertebra in place, chiropractic kept the vertebra in place, till they naturally fused together in a position without pain. had i believed the doctor that nothing could be done.. they would have fused together in a position that caused constant "Mute nostril agony"MB . there is always the possibility that tho chiropractic does work..one's condition may be degrading of its own beyond what chiropractor can provide aid to, the AMA finally admitted chiropractic relieves back pain better than conventional medicine

i have been to chiropractors that were not only terrible healers but crooks.. i didn't go back, but at the time i was lucky that i knew what a good one was.

there is a wonderful machine that stretches the spaces between the vertebra, and is the best back pain reliever.. dont have that info now its been aroun bout 10 yrs, its advertized in tv,sessions are evpensive

[Orrex]

13. They're both guaranteed to cure you of having too much extra cash in your pocket

Beyond that, chiropractic has a reasonably good track record for treating back pain, and absolutely no track record at fixing "subluxations" or any other pseudo-energy nonsense.

So make of that what you will.


Acupucture has limited empirical support as a means of relieving certain types of pain, but the studies in this regard are far from conclusive. You will, however, receive dozens of DU testimonials praising acupuncture for its ability to cure sinus infections, digestive disorders, and other such ills. Also, certain shy theeds would have us believe that it's been practiced unchanged since about 2000 years before wire-drawing technology existed. Those same shy theeds would have us believe that acupuncture does something to ki or qi or chi, without ever actually clarifying what ki or qi or chi might be or how acupuncture might affect it.

So make of that what you will.

[conscious evolution]

18. I can understand your skepticism

concerning chi and what not.
No problem.

However,I can't pass on your sublaxation remark.
It actually exists.What it is is problems resulting from pinched nerves from misaligned vertabrae and occassionally other bones(carpal tunnel,for instances).Sciatica is the classic example of a sublaxation.It is a pain that runs from the buttocks down to the bottom of the foot.What causes it is the sciatic nerve being pinched between the sacrum and bottom vertabrae.Ask anyone who has had it.Whether they went to a chiro or a regular doctor I would bet money that almost all of them would report relief from the pain once the pressure on the nerve was relieved.
Nerves being pinched by misaligned vertabrae can also cause incontinence and bowel problems.Regular orthopedic doctors consider patients with these symptoms accompanying bad backs to be candidates for emergency surgery as failing to treat/repair the can lead to serious health problems.

[Orrex]

19. Forgive me--I was a bit imprecise

You're certainly correct that physical misalignment of vertebrae can have a direct impact upon the nearby nerves and the parts of the body served by those nerves. I was wrong to cast out that fact.

But in a more general sense, "subluxations" are said to have a much broader effect than direct interference with functions not demonstrated to be related to any pinching or obstruction of nerves. This belief comes from no less a personage than D.D. Palmer himself, and to date it has never been demonstrated scientifically. I'm talking about stomach ailments or strained ligaments, neither of which result from pinched nerves but both of which are claimed to be ammeliorated by manipulation of faulty subluxations.

That is the usage of "subluxations" that I meant to reject, and I admit that I was imprecise in my original post.

On edit: You're definitely not a shy theed, by the way...

[Sanity Claws]

20. Acupuncture

Go to a doctor trained in Traditional Chinese Medicine, who will not only provide acupuncture but also can prescribe herbs and make dietary suggestions.
I've used TCM for migraines and have been able to avoid taking the heavy duty meds usually prescribed.