Acupuncture to be used on bases, battlefield

[Celebration]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/12/airforce_acupuncture_1222308w/

Col. Richard Niemtzow, an Air Force physician for 28 years, started practicing acupuncture in 1994. He designed the battlefield acupuncture treatments to help airmen deal with physical and mental pain inside the war zone. The treatments even include needles barely a centimeter long so they won’t fall out when airmen wear their Kevlar helmets.

Niemtzow’s treatment is a modern interpretation of the traditional Chinese approach. It’s not designed to treat specific injuries, but the entire body. Short, thin needles that look like gold studs are inserted into the ears to help interrupt pain signals traveling through the central nervous system, said Niemtzow, a senior adviser to the Air Force surgeon general.

Niemtzow and Col. Stephen Burns, Andrews’ acupuncture clinic chief, have trained other doctors in acupuncture and treated troops at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., and Ramstein Air Base, Germany, when other traditional treatments have failed.

Lt. Col. Terri Riutcel, an Air Force psychiatrist, used Niemtzow’s battlefield treatments in Iraq last year, where they were effective, Niemtzow said.

Acupuncture helped troops deal with traumatic injuries such as burns and severed limbs as well as post-traumatic stress disorder and general aches and pains, he said. Niemtzow said he is eager to train more doctors to use acupuncture and get them to the war zone to see if his battlefield acupuncture treatments continue to work.

[ecstatic]

1. has anyone here had success with that?

:shrug:

[The Traveler]

2. I've resorted to acupuncture

several times to help recover from joint injuries .... particularly my left knee and right shoulder. Based on my experience, I would have to say it can help accelerate the healing process and thus reduce the time it takes to recover. But I have been told by many here I must be deluded. Apparently, their opinions should matter more to me than my own experience. :shrug:

[varkam]

4. Respectfully, the problem with that line of thinking...

...is that one never knows how long it would have taken them to recover had they not gone through with whatever it is that they did. If you could somehow divide yourself into two identical people, one of you were to forgo the treatment and the other were to engage in it, then you would be able to say something like "Well, I healed in 20 days and it took them 3 months"

It is the same sort of thing with OTC cold remedies that purport to help you get over a cold faster. The truth is you don't know how long it would have taken you to get over that cold sans Airborne or whatnot.

[Richard D]

5. Is that not true with any treatment?

Or any other choice a person makes. "what if I'd done that instead of this" comes to mind.

[Orrex]

6. The difference is that conventional medical treatments are supported by empirical testing

Acupuncture does not enjoy that same support, except perhaps as a means of mitigating certain kinds of pain in certain circumstances.

Varkam is saying this: In the absence of pre-existing empirical data to corroborate your claim that acupuncture accelerated your healing, what is your basis for making this claim?

You are saying this: Even though your healing via conventional medicine is consistent with mountains of pre-existing empirical data, how do you know that your healing can really be attributed to conventional medicine?

Without getting into pointless epistemology, your question simply doesn't apply to conventional medicine the way it does to acupuncture.


Heck, we all know that acupuncture has been practiced unchanged since before the primordial slime oozed its way across the sea floor, but despite this eons-long history, the artform has not amassed an objective body of empirical data to substantiate the claims made about its efficacy in hastening the healing process.

[Richard D]

9. Agreed

I personally doubt the possibility of a real double blind placebo controlled study being done on acupuncture.
That said though, there are thousands of journal articles (available via Medline) that do show objective physiological changes via acupuncture.

[The Traveler]

8. LOL!

Dude, I'm 52 years old. Eight years ago, after 30 years, I packed up my 200lbs of climbing gear and put it in my keepsake trunk. Doctor's orders. Between rock climbing, motorcycles, rugby, martial arts and general horsing around, I have had more broken bones and ripped ligaments than the most unfortunate of NFL quarterbacks.

So I have a LOT of experience with recovering from these kinds of injuries. More than enough for a baseline.

My degree is in physics ... so I understand well the distinction between controlled experiment and anecdotal evidence. I work as an engineer, which makes me practical. If it works, I use it.

Hey, I really don't care if you believe it or not. Next time I get busted up, I'll go back to the regimen of taking the needles twice a week and doing the physical therapy every day. I'll recover faster than I otherwise would. (Can't say BETTER ... because when you pop a knee that has been popped 16 times before you never know how well things are going to turn out. And understand that "recovery" does not always mean a return of full strength or range of motion, as I have sadly discovered .)

Trav

[Orrex]

11. How do you know that it wasn't the music playing in the acupuncturist's office that healed you?

In short, you have no way to determine the efficacy of the treatment. I've no doubt that you do understand the difference between a controlled experiment and anecdotal evidence, and for that reason I'm sure that you recognize your case as anecdotal. How could it possibly be otherwise? You're the researcher, the test subject, and the evaluator! Where's the double-blind? Where's the indepedent verification?

So I have a LOT of experience with recovering from these kinds of injuries. More than enough for a baseline.

Are you kidding? You throw your objectivity out the window and replace it with self-assurance. That's hardly a reasonable way to conduct an experiment.

[Celebration]

13. my acupuncturist doesn't have music

Too bad. It would be a good combintion.

A friend who is an acupuncturist in another city uses tuning forks along with the needles. The patients love it.

She (the acupuncturist) sent me an email she got from a non English speaking patient, which thanked my friend because now she was experiencing "unstuckness." Very sweet.

[Richard D]

3. I've been a practicing acupuncturist . . .

. . . for over 25 years.
Yes, it works for many things quite effectively, especially when combined with diet, exercise, nutrition, and herbs.

[ecstatic]

21. I'm looking into how it might help with anemia

It seems almost like an oxymoron though... How in the world can acupuncture treat anemia?!

[Orrex]

22. It doesn't. It can't.

Next question?

[ecstatic]

23. In that case, it's a shame that so much effort has been put into

telling (naive? desperate?) people like myself otherwise. Oh well. Guess I'll stick with the iron pills. LOL

http://www.google.com/search?q=anemia+acupuncture

[Orrex]

24. You're damn right that it's a shame. Even here on DU, people believe that crap

Shit about how a needle in the ear can cure a sinus infection or treat an ulcer.

[Warpy]

14. I'm your basic skeptic here

and I've had remarkable success with acute pain with acupuncture. I'm resistant to the placebo effect to the point that drugs like propoxyphene have no effect on me.

PET scans have confirmed that acupuncture does have measurable effects in the brain. However, double blind studies done with patients receiving acupuncture versus blind dry needling have been inconclusive, some saying following meridians has no effect and a couple of studies saying it does.

Using it for things other than pain remains unproven.

What we do know now is that it is a valid adjunctive therapy for pain.

[Orrex]

15. Did you know that Chinese mystics over 2000 years ago verified its efficacy with PET scans?

True fact!

[Warpy]

16. Those clever Chinese!

Who knew PET scans could be constructed of bamboo and rice paper?

[Orrex]

7. Now, if only they'd start using homeopathic weapons, there'd be no more injuries

At least, no injuries that can be verified by any empirical observation.

[cosmik debris]

10. Has any one ever explained how needles in the ear

"help interrupt pain signals traveling through the central nervous system,"

Or is that just another part of the sales pitch?

[Orrex]

12. Does it involve ear-candling?

Wax on! Wax off!

[cosmik debris]

17. The case fore acupuncture would be a lot more convincing

If they would quit making up bullshit explanations and admit that they don't know why it works.

Every time I read another sci-fi explanation I doubt even more.

[Warpy]

18. And if they'd stop making outrageous claims

for treating things other than pain!

Oh, I do know one smoker who quit using acupuncture after other methods had failed, but I know a lot more smokers for whom it did nothing.

I also saw studies that showed it worthless for a lot of neurological conditions.

However, needling does cause some changes in the areas of the brain that register and interpret pain. The jury is out on whether or not the Chinese meridians have to be followed and the Chinese themselves have simplified their system in the past few decades by eliminating a lot of points along those meridians.

My own best guess is that it works the way a TENS unit works in conventional medicine.

[Orrex]

19. 'the Chinese themselves have simplified their system in the past few decades'

Nonsense! Acupuncture has been practiced unchanged since 1600+ years prior to the invention of wire-drawing. You risk blasphemy by suggesting that this venerable craft could be altered!

:spank:

[Warpy]

20. The Chinese are a lot more sensible

than the average practitioner in the US.