Autism Not Related To Vaccines

[remember2000forever]

Big argument with my husband tonight. I have a California friend who swears this is a cover-up.

Says California has the most cases. Maybe ground zero for the 1990 to 2000. The Mercury thing.

Anyone else have a West Coast friend like that? Her baby boy, of course, was deemed autistic a couple of years after getting his initial immunization shots.

My husband says I'm a "Tin Foil". I think it's a probable cover-up no matter what the Powers to be says.

Your Opinion?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i5qHH2OdrDMQkErloXqYD-HZAcHwD96A8FM80

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I think the world is round. The globe is warming. The Holocaust happened.

And vaccines do not cause autism.

[Zhade]

21. Oh, you and your proven facts.

NT!

[remoulade]

2. I agree with your hubby.

:-)

[Zhade]

22. Well, he is right.

NT!

[xchrom]

3. vaccines do not cause autism.

lots of studies out there --

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

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[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Vaccines do not cause autism.

There are countless studies which have thus far found no link whatever. The science is not on the side of the anti-vaccine cranks.

[remoulade]

13. The cranks and their ambulance-chasing lawyers have $$$ in their eyes.

That is what is behind the claims.

[Ranting_Wacko]

5. Ask yourself the simple question...

Would a company lie, cheat and steal to hide the fact that their product wasn't safe?

Would such a company do everything possible to discredit any attempts to do an independent study of their product, even if such a study would solve the issue once and for all?

Think about that. And then tell me such a conspiracy is impossible.

[NoSheep]

6. ding.

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Very appropriate username.

All of the independent studies have found no link, by the way. And there have been dozens.

[Ranting_Wacko]

10. Inappropriate user name

Spider would be the first to suspect Big Pharma of covering something up.

As for your mythical studies, quote them. Give me links.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Not when there's no evidence in support and far too much evidence to the contrary.

Helpful hint: correlation is not causation. The observed onset of autism at roughly the age at which children are routinely vaccinated does not mean that there is a causal link. No study thus far conducted has found any such link, and the original study positing a link has been found to be deeply flawed and to have used manipulated data and an extremely small sample size of only twelve subjects (ten of whose symptoms were mis-reported in the study, whose author has been found guilty of professional misconduct...and who also, perhaps NOT coincidentally, holds a patent on a single-dose measles vaccine).

[varkam]

32. "mythical studies"

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

11. but, but, but, they try to discredit those studies saying no link has been found, right?

See? conspiracy! Woohoo!!111

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Do I have to point out the inherent absurdity of this argument?

Really?

[mike_c]

12. show me the data....

Real data, not just correlations and suppositions.

Actually, don't. I know half a dozen luddites in this community who will post links to pseudo-science blogs and articles "proving" the vaccine-autism connection in a heartbeat. I just don't have the energy to go there. I've got other stuff to do tonight.

BTW, cell phones kill bees, too. :evilgrin:

[earth mom]

67. Of course they would because there are BILLIONS of dollars at stake. nt

[AlCzervik]

14. did anyone read this study from last year---

Major Gene Study Points to Causes of Autism
By E.J. Mundell
HealthDay Reporter
Monday, February 19, 2007; 12:00 AM

SUNDAY, Feb. 18 (HealthDay News) -- The largest study of the genetics of autism ever conducted, involving DNA from almost 1,200 affected families worldwide, has already yielded two important clues to the poorly understood disorder, scientists say.

Discoveries in two areas of the genome -- a region on chromosome 11 suspected of having links to autism, and aberrations in a brain-development gene calledneurexin 1-- could spur more targeted research, the experts noted.

"That's the real promise here," said Autism Genome Project co-researcher Dr. Stephen Scherer, director of the Center for Applied Genomics at The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto. "When you identify certain genes, you can then develop genetic tests -- in some cases prenatal and in some cases postnatal -- because early diagnosis is crucial here."

Genetic discoveries can also further research toward a cure for autism, Scherer said.

"When we have this type of knowledge, we can actually think about designing better therapies based on what we know isnothappening properly in the cell. We can try and design things to make it work better," he explained.

The Autism Genome Project was funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the nonprofit advocacy group Autism Speaks. Its findings were published in the Feb. 18 online edition ofNature Genetics.

Autism remains a real health crisis, with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announcing recently that one in every 150 American 8-year-olds now have some form of autistic spectrum disorder. That number is higher than prior estimates, and the debate rages as to just why the disease might be becoming more prevalent.

Experts agree that autism's causes remain cloaked in mystery, although prior research has pointed to a strong genetic component. For example, "there's about 90 percent concordance between identical twins -- that's a significant genetic contribution," Scherer said.

So, the Autism Genome Project, which took five years to complete, sought to probe much deeper into the DNA driving the disorder. The project involved more than 120 scientists working at 50 institutions in 19 countries. They painstakingly sought out almost 1,200 families worldwide in which at least two members were affected by autism. The scientists then collected DNA samples from family members and analyzed these samples in the most advanced and standardized manner, looking for genomic "commonalities."



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/18/AR2007021800733_pf.html

[uppityperson]

17. I missed that, thank you for posting it, very interesting.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

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[varkam]

33. Wait...how are there vaccines in our genes?

Teh evul pharma must be stopped!!1!

[cureautismnow]

39. I like this newer study better.

M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California's autism increase not due to better counting, diagnosis

SACRAMENTO -- A study by researchers at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute has found that the seven- to eight-fold increase in the number children born in California with autism since 1990 cannot be explained by either changes in how the condition is diagnosed or counted -- and the trend shows no sign of abating.

Published in the January 2009 issue of the journal Epidemiology, results from the study also suggest that research should shift from genetics to the host of chemicals and infectious microbes in the environment that are likely at the root of changes in the neurodevelopment of California's children.

"It's time to start looking for the environmental culprits responsible for the remarkable increase in the rate of autism in California," said UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute researcher Irva Hertz-Picciotto, a professor of environmental and occupational health and epidemiology and an internationally respected autism researcher.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/19273

[HuckleB]

87. You "like" it better?

Say what?

[HuckleB]

86. Yes, and I don't this study is alone is noting possible other causes for Autism.

[H2O Man]

15. I think that

it could be a contributing factor in some cases.

[Ranting_Wacko]

19. Thank you!

That's my opinion. More testing - by labs OUTSIDE of Big Pharma's control - is needed.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

71. I'm finding it very interesting & very bizarre that so many replies to your posts have been removed.

The disinfo is alive and well on this thread. :puke:

[Orrex]

85. Then let's have those studies. What's stopping them?

Do you allege a Big Pharma conspiracy that's shutting down all independent research? Prove it.

Or do you object that such a study would be prohibitively expensive? Well, that's too bad. Ask Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey to fund it.


The plain fact is that absolutely no causative link has been shown to exist between Thimerosal and Autism. None. None whatsoever.
And dozens of studies have been performed.


If it's your claim that these studies are flawed or tainted, then you need to provide one that isn't flawed or tainted, and you need to subject it to independent and transparent peer review.


To date, no such study exists. I wonder why.

[Zhade]

20. It's been shown that the guy who linked the two LIED.

Meanwhile, there's no other evidence they cause autism.

In other words, the anti-vax brigade is wrong.

[Ranting_Wacko]

23. And it's also been shown...

... that the man who filed the complaint against him AND the man who wrote the report claiming he faked his report are one and the same. And he works for a Murdoch-owned paper.

Ask yourself again - would evil men lie to cover their crimes?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. would evil men lie to cover their crimes?

Well, we know Wakefield did.

And then there's you.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. And I'm Queen of the Pixies.

I'm the one causing all the autism.

[uppityperson]

29. I KNEW IT!!!!!111

I thought you were male. Guess you could be queen of the pixies anyways.

[Zhade]

28. SNAP.

Though I don't think the poster is evil. Just woefully, laughably misinformed.

[uppityperson]

44. good grief, looks like calling someone a "research librarian" is

against the rules. "delete"

[aquart]

56. Have a Coke.

[varkam]

37. Not so much.

I guess Kirby's been playing fast and loose with the facts, again:

The producers,
Countdown,
MSNBC
On Wednesday 11 February 2009 you placed into the mouth of your presenter Keith Olbermann a grievously defamatory item concerning me. You named me the third of the day's "world's worst persons" and, among other things, accused me of dishonesty and "malfeasance" in connection with my work as a journalist for The Sunday Times of London. The item has been widely seen in the UK.

On the previous day, you broadcast a similarly defamatory item concerning Dr Andrew Wakefield, whose false claims of having found a possible link between a childhood vaccine and autism have been the subject of my investigations. Wakefield can no doubt deal with his own reputation. However, it's clear to me that, although I share your apparent general opinion of Wakefield, the item concerning him contained inaccuracies, and appeared to have been crudely lifted from my work, without any effort whatsoever on your part to check your facts, or to properly describe my findings. I think that by subsequently attacking me you believed that you could somehow mitigate your previous errors.

These two instances evidence your inability to deliver three daily targets for your "world's worst person" item, and you now resort to baselessly picking on people about whom you know little. It's clear to me that you do so in order to deliver entertaining defamations, at little cost to the programme, and in circumstances where you believe your victims will have no redress.

It is untrue that, as you say, I am the complainant against Wakefield in UK disciplinary hearings. I have ample correspondence to prove this. As a journalist with public as well as professional duties, I was approached almost five years ago by the UK doctors' regulator, the General Medical Council, and asked if I would supply them with my journalistic findings, post-publication, at that time concerning Wakefield. This I did, in a manner familiar to journalists, both in the UK and the US, in dealings with statutory regulators. There can be no possible issue about this, or any justifiable allegation of misconduct on my part. Nor could there be any justification for your suggestion that this would somehow disbar me from continuing my investigations into Wakefield's activities, or that I had improperly concealed my previous actions, or that my prior supply of journalistic findings invalidated findings reported last weekend which are not yet charges faced by Wakefield. Your item implied that, in reporting my new findings, I was somehow merely reporting my own prior allegations. This is utterly false, and grossly damaging to my reputation. To assist your employer to commercially profit by recklessly attacking me appears to have been your intent.

You were apparently supplied with your baseless allegations by a New York-based freelance journalist, David Kirby, who has made substantial sums of money through attacking childhood vaccines, and who is an advisor to Wakefield. Extraordinarily, you even supplied Kirby with a copy of the script of your attack on me, prior to broadcast, and thus appear to have acted in cahoots with him. Kirby was sufficiently motivated, and stupid, to publish your script on a website before the item was aired.

Your defamation of me has been taken up by others, and you are plainly responsible for this. You have no possible defence, since your claims are simply false. They were fabricated and placed with you by antivaccine campaigners and cranks. You can argue no privilege or free speech right to make such false allegations, not least since you published them with complete disregard for their truth or falsity. NBC's lawyers will no doubt explain to you the particular difficulties of such conduct in the UK jurisdiction.

I am presently travelling, and have no access to office facilities. I write to you via a junk antispam email address.

I look forward to your prompt response, and ask that you supply a copy of this email to your legal department.

I can presently be contacted at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

With best wishes,


Brian Deer

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. No it hasn't, and no, they weren't

The GMC investigation of Wakefield's research was instigated by the British Health Secretary, John Reid. See here: http://www.autismconnect.org/news.asp?section=00010001&itemtype=news&id=5768

And what of the fact that Wakefield was in the pocket of trial lawyers seeking to bring a lawsuit re vaccines to the tune of £500K (a conflict of interest he failed to disclose)? For that matter, what of the fact that Wakefield owns a patent on a single-dose measles vaccine (which would give him financial incentive to discredit the MMR jab, another conflict of interest he failed to disclose)?

[Peregrine]

45. Actually KO got it wrong

Check out http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/02/brian_deer_responds_to_keith_olbermann.php#more">Orac, the reporter didn't file the complaint. The board came to him for the information he had already collected. Regardless, it is a fact that Wakefield is a fraud.

[LeftishBrit]

80. 'works for a Murdoch owned paper'

And the main media people who pushed Wakefield's theory in the UK were the Daily Mail, our top-selling paper (unfortunately) and if possible well to the RIGHT of the Murdoch press. And well known for profiting from sensationalism.

I don't in fact think the qualifications of the newspaper that publishes the material are the criteria for a statement being true or false; but if it's relevant one way, it's also relevant the other.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. With all due respect, this post does not add to our body of knowledge.

We don't know enough yet to identify the environmental triggers, nor how they act on genetically vulnerable babies.

Vaccines and the way in which they are administered may or may not play a role. So long as people remain so passionate about the topic, little useful research will be done.

[Ranting_Wacko]

30. Indeed...

It's impossible to discuss this topic intelligently. The minute anyone suggests that more testing is needed, the aspenger's patrol/Big Pharma cheerleaders swoop in and start insulting anyone who dares disagree with them, starting with mocking their login name and moving on to the "worse than Hitler" comparisons. (This hasn't reached that point yet but I can see it coming)

This is why I stopped posting in response to this topic a while ago.

I had hoped - with Keith Olberman correcting himself and issuing an apology to Dr. Wakefield last night - that maybe we had progressed past the point where we blindly follow what The Press and Big Pharma say.

Clearly I was mistaken. I will pray for your children and hope that your faith in all vaccines being safe is not misplaced.

[uppityperson]

31. I asked you to clarify what you wrote, and you ignored me

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5040684&mesg_id=5040818

But then, I am a shill of course, because I asked you to clarify.

[TZ]

38. read my links down thread

And see if you think this topic is still "understudied". You act like a global warming denier. Don't want to read actual science. Just fearmongering bullshit.
BTW, maybe you should get your science from SCIENTISTS and not crackpots on the internets or the MSM who are dumb as a box of rocks on the topic

[varkam]

34. "So long as people remain so passionate about the topic, little useful research will be done."

My irony meter just exploded.

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. *pop*

Mine too.

People (doctors especially) are so invested in the safety of vaccines that they can't even admit the obvious: autism is an epidemic. Epidemics (by definition) have something more than genetics as a root cause,

Admitting that an unidentified environmental trigger is at work brings attention to a wide range of possible causes, including vaccines.

This debate harms the search for the cause because of that defensiveness. The medical consensus must accept that the problem is the environmental trigger(s) before a good-faith search for it can really begin.

[TZ]

35. HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you?

The vaccine autism link has been studied to death! But you are not interested in anything that contradicts your almost fundie type beliefs.
Just this phrase.."vaccines in the way they are administered" shows how ignorant you are on this topic!
:banghead:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal.htm
http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/safety_quality/vaccine_safety_websites/en/
http://search.who.int/search?ie=utf8&site=default_collection&client=WHO&proxystylesheet=WHO&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&q=vaccines+and+autism&Search=Search&sitesearch=
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/01/26/Study_Adds_To_Evidence_Of_Vaccine_Safety_v/
So tell me, do you still think the world is flat?

[uppityperson]

41. You missed the qualifier "may or may not play a role".

I wonder if how they are administered would play a role? Maybe nurses with beards would cause more cases of autism than beardless ones? Maybe nurses with blond hair giving injections cause less autism? Maybe wiping with alcohol before the shot influences autism development? or not? Maybe the right leg as opposed to the left?

Lots of potential for studies there. And don't forget, those studies must include testing autistic children also.


:sarcasm: just in case.

[earth mom]

36. Big pharma is in cahoots with the CDC & NIH = a cover up.

The court case was just another exercise to coverup a lot of a$$es and a$$ets. :puke:


Federal Vaccine Court Rules Against Autism Families: Government’s Refusal to Fund
Sound Science Stacks Deck Against Vaccine-Injured Children.
One more reason to distrust the government’s vaccine program, says SafeMinds

Washington, D.C. – February 12, 2008 – Autism advocacy organization SafeMinds regrets today’s ruling by
the U.S Court of Federal Claims against three families who argued that vaccination contributed to their child’s
autism. The denial of reasonable compensation to families was based on inadequate vaccine safety science
available to the court. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is the defendant in vaccine injury
cases and is also responsible for carrying out the very vaccine safety research that should be integral to court
decisions. This conflict of interest means the deck is stacked against families when they enter “vaccine court”
and is yet one more reason for parents to doubt the integrity of the National Immunization Program.

“The government has its thumb on the scales of justice,” said Jim Moody, director of SafeMinds and an advisor
to the Petitioners Steering Committee of the U.S Federal Court of Claims. “The Vaccine Injury Compensation
Act passed by Congress in 1986 gave immunity to vaccine manufacturers and removed the incentive to create
safer products. Meanwhile, the law only gives the illusion that parents will have their day in court. The process
is dysfunctional and many families will not see justice done.”

Two HHS agencies, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH), are
responsible for conducting vaccine safety research. Even leading vaccine proponents have accused the CDC of
carrying out safety research “on the cheap,” and two major systematic reviews of vaccine research by the world
renowned Cochrane Collaboration have found studies to be of “poor quality” and “inadequate.” The director of
the NIH institute in charge of autism studies, Dr. Tom Insel, has admitted that HHS has a conflict of interest
preventing NIH from allowing autism-vaccine science due to the court cases. Last month, the government-
dominated Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee blocked critical vaccine-autism research studies from
moving forward even though they had been requested by their own scientific advisors and autism advocates.
HHS gives billions of dollars to pharmaceutical companies to develop vaccines and build vaccine factories, and
the CDC spends billions of dollars to promote and expand the immunization of Americans, yet the CDC spends
only $20 million on safety studies. Even this modest research has been placed off-limits to review by the
lawyers representing the vaccine court families while the Department of Justice lawyers were allowed to use it.

“The government must fund an extensive vaccine safety program, including studies of the health outcomes of
vaccinated and unvaccinated groups,” stated Sallie Bernard, executive director of SafeMinds. “Trust in
immunization will continue to deteriorate without the perception of a fair hearing. It is time for a neutral
agency to oversee vaccine safety.”

<snip>

http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/documents/SafeMindsOmnibusStatement_full.pdf

[varkam]

40. Does Sallie Bernard still work at SafeMinds?

you know, the same Sallie Bernard that was invited by a group of scientists to help design a study on vaccines and NDDs and, when the results were going to come out negative, she demanded to have her name removed from the study?

:rofl:

[TZ]

42. Nice post Karl Rove!

Since you don't believe it it must be a COVERUP!
Yes, and the UN and WHO (who also have done studies) must be in on it too. Tell me do you actually listen to a scientist or just the screeching of scientific illiterates on the web?

[earth mom]

46. Show me INDEPENDENT studies that prove your bullshit beyond a doubt.

But you can't.

All you can do is sling insults and bullshit from your parents basement.


p.s What fucking part of CONFLICT OF INTEREST do you not understand?!

[uppityperson]

47. pot-kettle.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

52. omg! You replied to me...again!!!!!

You continue to reply to my posts, and yet call me the stalker?

[earth mom]

54. You're the one stalking me on this thread. nt

[uppityperson]

57. good grief, I am replying to several people on this thread.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. HA!

That is just TOO goddamned funny. Are you aware that Andrew Wakefield, who conducted the original study positing a link between autism and the MMR vaccine, was paid £500K for 'research' by lawyers seeking to bring a lawsuit? Are you aware that Andrew Wakefield hold the patent on a single-dose measles vaccine? Care to talk about conflict of interest, now?

[earth mom]

53. Mercury is in the preservative, not in the vaccine itself.

But you know that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. WTF?

I said nothing about mercury (which in any case was NEVER PRESENT in the MMR vaccine, which has never contained thimerosal).

And I see you avoided responding to my query about Andrew Wakefield's documented conflicts of interest, by the way.

[earth mom]

58. That is a LIE and you know it.

Thimerosal is a mercury-based preservative developed in the 1930s that has been used in as many as 50 vaccines. In the 1982 Federal Register, an expert panel at the FDA reviewed thimerosal and found that it was toxic and caused cell death. The FDA called for its removal in over the counter products. Additionally, In 1999, the FDA stated that mercury exposure from vaccines exceeded Federal Safety Guidelines. Government officials admitted they were "asleep at the switch" when they failed to add up the cumulative exposure levels as new vaccines were added to the early infant vaccination schedule in the early1990's.

A decade ago, the rate of autism was 1 to 2 per 10,000. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) research now indicates that one in every 150 children now have autism. The dramatic rise in autism rates correlates with the increase in mercury exposure. Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's. Autism was first described as a new, never before seen disorder in 1943, in children born in the 1930's. Neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism have similar symptoms to those of mercury poisoning.

Thousands of families have reported that their normally-developing children changed after receiving mercury-containing vaccines and began displaying symptoms that lead to a diagnosis of autism. The symptoms of autism not only mimic those of mercury poisoning, but children with autism have been found to have more mercury in their bodies than typically-developing children.

<snip>

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) recently closed down schools when it was discovered that air mercury levels were at 30mcg/m. (EPA's action level in the air is 1mcg/m). Yet infants injected with multiple mercury containing vaccines in the 1990s received up to 187 mcg during the first six months of life. A typical dose received by a two-month old who received three mercury vaccines was 125 times EPA's daily allowable exposure levels .


http://www.safeminds.org/mercury/

[Spider Jerusalem]

61. No, actually, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

MMR is a live vaccine and has never contained thimerosal.

[uppityperson]

62. you mean thimerosal

[Spider Jerusalem]

63. whoops, fixed

[uppityperson]

64. no problem. sorry for stalking you though.

[earth mom]

65. No-You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. Then please, provide evidence that the MMR vaccine has ever contained thimerosal.

From a valid and reliable source (NB: antivaccine crusaders are not a reliable source).

[earth mom]

69. I bet you think Big Pharma, CDC, NIH are "reliable" sources.

:rofl:

:eyes:

[Spider Jerusalem]

70. Do you understand what a live vaccine is?

Apparently not.

[varkam]

73. "I know what you are but what am I?"

Is that pretty much all you've got?

[LeftishBrit]

81. You mean that you think the MMR contains thimerasol preservatives?

It doesn't. I didn't think anyone said it did. Even Wakefield doesn't say that. His claims were about the vaccine itself, not thimerasol.

And he is as associated with 'Big Pharma' as anyone else in the case; he has a patent on a single measles vaccine, which might be used much more if MMR were discredited. Why are all potential conflicts of interest here assumed to be on one side?

[uppityperson]

59. and even if a preservative were present in a vaccine, were part of the vaccine,

wouldn't that mean it was in the vaccine? Seems like saying the carrier fluid is not in the vaccine, since it is the carrier not the actual bits that do the whatever the heck it is called (brain fart).

[remember2000forever]

48. Anyone have an actual incident of loved one in California or elsewhere like my friend?

[uppityperson]

51. I have a loved one in California, and several elsewhere also.

Could you explain a bit more since that is a very cryptic question?

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. My son was diagnosed at age 2 1/2

He was developing just like his brothers until about 24 months when he took a left turn.

I have an acquaintance here in my little town who had the very same experience, and he strongly attributes it to vaccines or the municipal water supply.

FWIW.

I have no idea what causes it. I have no idea what does not cause it. My only certainty: I simply know that autism is an epidemic and there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.

Someone downthread observed "too much heat and not enough light". Exactly correct.

This is my first foray into this forum, after this thread was moved from gd. What a clusterfuck. This is worse than the gungeon.

First impression is that this forum is intended to serve as an echo chamber in which medical *sniff* professionals engage in a contest of who can berate their patients with the most vitriol.

[cosmik debris]

84. There have been numerous studies indicating NO LINK

between autism and vaccination. It is a dead end. Time to move on.

[ZombieHorde]

72. This thread could use more insults and personal attacks.

[earth mom]

74. Those doing the attacking are doing it to get posts removed so that there is no real opposition

to the bullshit they have posted ad nauseam in this thread. :puke:

[varkam]

75. You certainly haven't attacked anyone.

Not lil innocent ol' you...

[Warpy]

77. Let me get this straight

You think anybody who is qualified to do a study and who has access to all the epidemiological data required to do such a study is suspect?

You think any bunch of online ranters without either the expertise or access to data are above suspicion?

OK, gotcher number.

[uppityperson]

79. You are attacking and insulting to get your posts removed so there's no real opposition?

wow.

[cosmik debris]

76. Too much heat and not enough light.

Of course, I'm usually the guilty party, but I'm warming the bench on this one.

The facts are in, and the tin foil is hitting the fan!

[ZombieHorde]

78. Who hasn't posted when grumpy? I know I have. nt