Should we ban peanut butter because a subset of the population might be at risk?

[Orrex]

Poll question: Should we ban peanut butter because a subset of the population might be at risk?

[DrDan]

1. I don't believe my body could handle a peanut-butter ban

[Warpy]

3. My food budget sure couldn't.

It's an important source of protein for me.

[uppityperson]

2. Other: robb is a dingbat AND a moderator

dang, you edited. I like "Other: We need to do exhaustive studies, which I will then dismiss as being sponsored by Big PB."

[trotsky]

13. "which I will then dismiss as being sponsored by Big PB"

:rofl:

[LisaM]

4. I'm allergic to seafood and you don't see anyone trying to ban that

and believe me, people sneak it into all kinds of things. My most recent bad experience was a restaurant where they fried the onion rings in the same oil they'd flash fried shrimp. Don't get me started on Thai food. They even put fish paste (which has shrimp) in food labelled as vegetarian.

[Orrex]

5. I've seen more and more warnings about this at restaurants

Lots of signs declaring that seafood products are prepared on the premises and may come into contact with other foods.


I imagine that a seafood allergy would be quite a pain in the butt.

[LisaM]

6. Yeah, and add to it that I live in Seattle

There's some restaurants I don't even bother to go to.

[neverforget]

7. I HATE peanut butter, nuts, almonds, etc. Just the smell of peanut butter

alone makes me ill. I attribute it to the fact that my mom craved it while she carried me. She told me that she would try and give it to me when I was little but I would throw a fit.

Having said that, I would never want them banned.

[SoCalNative]

8. Feh

if ya gots an issue ya best be carrying that epi-pen with ya at all times

[monmouth]

9. I thought peanut butter had salmonella or something like that???n/t

[marybourg]

10. I get sick from wheat.

Even if I don't eat the wheat; even if the wheat was just present in the same factory where my rice cereal was made. Or the restaurant toasted bread on the grill where my burger is grilling. Even if I walk past the pizza place when the door open up. Can we ban wheat? Please?? This is not a spoof. It's a serious illness called celiac disease. And it's much worse even than I'm outlining here. Not asking for pity; just tolerance of others' infirmities.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

11. No, absolutely not

Should we ban sugary foods because of those with diabetes? Should we ban seafood because some are allergic to it? Can we ban tomatoes because they're gross?

C'mon, be serious. For most of us, wheat is very healthy. Why ban something that is healthy when there is so much crap out there?

(And before you flame me, I think that food preparers should be more responsible with their preparations)

[marybourg]

12. Of course. Just trying to make the point that we can't ban everything

that might hurt a few (even when I'm one of the few) But awareness of others' problems can make us more empathetic.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

19. Sorry if I misunderstood

I thought you were seriously advocating the banning of wheat products.

Sorry, mate! :hi:

[xchrom]

14. live and learn -- i didn't know there was a Big PB. nt

[AZCat]

15. Sweet!

I'm gonna make millions on the PB black market! Now if I could just figure out how to smuggle it across the border...

[LeftishBrit]

16. No, though products that contain peanuts should be clearly labelled.

You can't ban everything to which some people might be allergic. Should we ban honey because some people are allergic to bee stings?

[Orrex]

17. According to some in this Forum, yes we should

And we should investigate every person and every bee so that we can prove that no person has ever been harmed by a bee.

[Dorian Gray]

18. I said no

even though I wouldn't mind a ban because I hate the smell of peanut butter.

[lizerdbits]

20. You can pry my peanut butter jar

from my cold dead hand!

[Orrex]

21. Personally, I would have said

"You can pry my peanut butter from the roof of my cold, dead mouth."

But that's just me!

[flyingobject]

22. no one forces children to eat nuts, the Pharma Controlled Gov FORCES all vaccines on all children

so there is choice in the first situation - children can avoid nuts or peanut butter,
but Pharma Controlled Gov and some others don't want to give vaccine choice to children who should not be getting all of the vaccs or in combo doses.

[Orrex]

23. The Gov does not force vaccines on all children

So your post makes no sense.

[flyingobject]

24. Bovine Excrement

Only with "religious exemption" and tons of hassle
can a parent get their child exempted.



Its ridiculous to exempt someone based on religious reason only.

It is also ridiculous to refuse to separate out or space out some of the vaccines.

Its all about the Government enforced MANDATORY CHILDHOOD VACCINES.

People shouldn't have to pretend they are religious if they aren't, in order to
protect them.

[Orrex]

25. What penalties to parents face if they don't vaccinate their children?

People shouldn't have to pretend they are religious if they aren't, in order to
protect them.

Protect them from what? Pseudoscience and antivax fearmongering? These are far more dangerous, both to the individual and to society, than any threat posed by vaccines.

[flyingobject]

26. What part of "Mandatory Vaccination" do you not get

Do you have anything to contribute, or are you just a one liners sort of makes no sense kind of person?

State Mandatory Vaccination Laws
School Vaccination Requirements. State laws mandating vaccinations for
children are very common. Every state has a law requiring children to be vaccinated
before they enroll in a public or private school. Early statutes required vaccination against
smallpox and were amended as new vaccines were introduced.10 Many modern school
vaccination laws are the result of measles outbreaks in the 1960's and 1970's.11 Generally,
states use the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s schedule of immunizations
as a guide, and require children to be vaccinated against a number of diseases on the
schedule, including diphtheria, measles, rubella, and polio.12
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21414.pdf

Exemptions are possible, but vary from state to state, and are the exception to the rule.
Often schools don't even ask when they themselves choose to vaccinate children,
like the Hepatitus va given in middle school
The parent finds out about it AFTER the fact.

If you are going to college, you have to get vaccinated.
It is part of the application.

[Orrex]

28. So they're only mandatory to get into public schools or college.

In other words, they're only mandatory IF...

Sounds like there's an easy way to opt out right there. If I want to go into Whole Foods, I have to wear a shirt and shoes, and probably pants. I'd like to drive 140 mph, but then I can't go on public roads. If you want to enroll your kids in public school, get them vaccinated.

Everything's a trade-off.

If you want to skip the vaccinations and expose your children to disease, that's your right, but then they can't participate in privileges afforded other children.

[flyingobject]

48. same old tactics - putting words in other people's mouths

hey, no need to be straight forward, right?

Just falsely attribute thoughts and ideas to other people, then
attack them.

Thats some stinking stuff.

[flyingobject]

27. Their fracking children can't attend public school that their taxes paid for, thats what

Thats a big fracking penalty, in case you didn't know.

The parents have to hire a lawyer to get exemptions sometimes, like the parents
of this Autistic Child who they didn't want fracked up a bunch more

NOT EVERYONE HAS THE FRACKING MONEY TO HIRE A LAWYER WHEN THEY WANT TO PROTECT THEIR CHILD.

Vaccine Exemption Cases



In the Matter of AK vs. SC School District (2007); United States District Court for the Northern District of New York

This case involved the denial of a religious exemption for a kindergartner diagnosed with autism. The child plaintiffs’ parents hold religious beliefs contrary to the practice of vaccinating, and sought an exemption under NYS PHL 2164 (9) for AK to attend public school. School officials however did not believe that the parents’ religious beliefs were sincere and genuine, and denied the religious exemption excluding the child-plaintiff from school. Ms. Finn successfully argued and won a preliminary injunction in the United States District Court for the Northern District of New York, and child-plaintiff AK was granted a religious exemption and allowed to return to school. After successfully winning the preliminary injunction this case was settled.

http://www.vaccineexemption.org/VEcases.html

[Orrex]

29. Strangely, you become *LESS* convincing the more you post

It's like diminishing returns, or something.

I'll bet in two or three more posts you'll become entirely meaningless.

[salvorhardin]

30. Mandatory Physical Education laws vs. mandatory vaccination laws

It seems disingenuous to protest mandatory vaccination laws because there's a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance a child may be harmed by a routine vaccination and not protest all sorts of other mandatory laws relating to education. After all, Physical Education is mandated in almost every single state, at least for high schoolers, and I would be willing to bet the number of serious injuries* related to participating in Phys. Ed. far exceeds the number of injuries related to vaccinations. Yet for the vast majority of kids, Phys. Ed. is a required course for graduation. One wonders where all the poo-flinging howler monkeys screaming about mandated Phys. Ed. classes are. Whining about mandatory vaccination laws seems to be equivalent to whining about mandatory seat belt laws because some people are injured by seat belts.


*One recent study found that 16% of children reported injuries incurred during Phys. Ed., 30% of which were serious enough to keep the children from physical activity for over a week.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16181255

[Dorian Gray]

31. very good point

[AZCat]

32. I rented out the poo-flinging howler monkeys for a party a couple of months ago.

My friend Jake decided it would be cool if we offered the monkeys a little refresher after one of their big poo-flinging/screaming numbers. Bad idea. I haven't seen Jake, the monkeys, or any of the kegs since. Had to forfeit the damn deposit on those things, too (the kegs, not the monkeys). I'm sorry if you'd been trying to book them for a protest about physical education in school. I'm sure they'll come back, though - Jake's wife put a hold on all his credit cards.


Interesting bit of trivia: poo-flinging howler monkeys prefer the taste of cheap American beer to Guinness by more than two-to-one.

[salvorhardin]

39. Have you tried leaving out a bit of high fructose corn syrup?

Poo-flinging howler monkeys love to scream and whine about HFCS and they're likely to come running back. I also suggest showing the DVD of Alex Jones' TerrorStorm. It soothes them and lulls them into complacency allowing for easier recapture.

[AZCat]

60. Good ideas!

I shall set out small cups of HFCS. About TerrorStorm, though - I'd rather not expose them to such radioactive material. Maybe I'll set up a viewing of Zeitgeist - it should have a similar calming effect, without the added danger of mutations.

[uppityperson]

33. Thank you. eom

[flyingobject]

34. FROM MERCK PACKAGE INSERT FOR MMR: CONTRAINDICATIONS

SOME PEOPLE SHOULDNT GET THE VACCINE ACCORDING TO MERCK INSERT

CONTRAINDICATIONS
Hypersensitivity to any component of the vaccine, including gelatin.40
Do not give M-M-R II to pregnant females; the possible effects of the vaccine on fetal development
are unknown at this time. If vaccination of postpubertal females is undertaken, pregnancy should be
avoided for three months following vaccination (see INDICATIONS AND USAGE, Non-Pregnant
Adolescent and Adult Females and PRECAUTIONS, Pregnancy).
Anaphylactic or anaphylactoid reactions to neomycin (each dose of reconstituted vaccine contains
approximately 25 mcg of neomycin).
Febrile respiratory illness or other active febrile infection. However, the ACIP has recommended that
all vaccines can be administered to persons with minor illnesses such as diarrhea, mild upper respiratory
infection with or without low-grade fever, or other low-grade febrile illness.41
Patients receiving immunosuppressive therapy. This contraindication does not apply to patients who
are receiving corticosteroids as replacement therapy, e.g., for Addison's disease.
Individuals with blood dyscrasias, leukemia, lymphomas of any type, or other malignant neoplasms
affecting the bone marrow or lymphatic systems.

Primary and acquired immunodeficiency states, including patients who are immunosuppressed in
association with AIDS or other clinical manifestations of infection with human immunodeficiency
viruses;41-43 cellular immune deficiencies; and hypogammaglobulinemic and dysgammaglobulinemic
states. Measles inclusion body encephalitis60 (MIBE), pneumonitis61 and death as a direct consequence
of disseminated measles vaccine virus infection have been reported in immunocompromised individuals
inadvertently vaccinated with measles-containing vaccine.
Individuals with a family history of congenital or hereditary immunodeficiency, until the immune
competence of the potential vaccine recipient is demonstrated.
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

[salvorhardin]

41. I'm pretty sure

That there aren't many pregnant girls or kids with gammopathy and AIDS entering kindergarten when they would be required to have had their first course of vaccines.

[LeftishBrit]

50. Quite so. There are some children who should not get the vaccinations

Which is all the more reason why most people should be vaccinated: it protects those who cannot get the vaccination, those whose vaccination does not fully 'take, and infants who are too young to have been vaccinated (I know someone who is physically disabled because she got whooping-cough at the age of one week).

[flyingobject]

35. MERCK MMR PACKAGE INSERT: WARNINGS -

FROM MERCK'S INSERT, WARNINGS.

WARNINGS
Due caution should be employed in administration of M-M-R II to persons with a history of cerebral
injury, individual or family histories of convulsions, or any other condition in which stress due to fever should be avoided. The physician should be alert to the temperature elevation which may occur following vaccination (see ADVERSE REACTIONS).
Hypersensitivity to Eggs Live measles vaccine and live mumps vaccine are produced in chick embryo cell culture. Persons with a history of anaphylactic, anaphylactoid, or other immediate reactions (e.g., hives, swelling of the mouth and throat, difficulty breathing, hypotension, or shock) subsequent to egg ingestion may be at an enhanced risk of immediate-type hypersensitivity reactions after receiving vaccines containing traces of chick embryo antigen. The potential risk to benefit ratio should be carefully evaluated before considering vaccination in such cases. Such individuals may be vaccinated with extreme caution, having adequate treatment on hand should a reaction occur (see PRECAUTIONS).45

However, the AAP has stated, "Most children with a history of anaphylactic reactions to eggs have no
untoward reactions to measles or MMR vaccine. Persons are not at increased risk if they have egg
allergies that are not anaphylactic, and they should be vaccinated in the usual manner. In addition, skin testing of egg-allergic children with vaccine has not been predictive of which children will have an immediate hypersensitivity reaction...Persons with allergies to chickens or chicken feathers are not at increased risk of reaction to the vaccine."44
Hypersensitivity to Neomycin The AAP states, "Persons who have experienced anaphylactic reactions to topically or systemically administered neomycin should not receive measles vaccine. Most often, however, neomycin allergy manifests as a contact dermatitis, which is a delayed-type (cell-mediated) immune response rather than anaphylaxis. In such persons, an adverse reaction to neomycin in the vaccine would be an erythematous, pruritic nodule or papule, 48 to 96 hours after vaccination. A history of contact dermatitis to neomycin is not a contraindication to receiving measles vaccine."44
Thrombocytopenia Individuals with current thrombocytopenia may develop more severe thrombocytopenia following vaccination. In addition, individuals who experienced thrombocytopenia with the first dose of M-M-R II (or its component vaccines) may develop thrombocytopenia with repeat doses. Serologic status may be evaluated to determine whether or not additional doses of vaccine are needed. The potential risk to benefit ratio should be carefully evaluated before considering vaccination in such cases (see ADVERSE REACTIONS).

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

[salvorhardin]

42. I'm pretty sure

That doctors of kids with cerebral injuries or who have anaphylactic reactions to egg products are hip to the fact that vaccination might not be the best thing for these kids and would happily write a medical exemption so they can be admitted to school.

Are there kids who have anaphylactic reactions to egg products that are undiagnosed? Sure. But how many? And how could you know beforehand?

[flyingobject]

36. MERCK MMR PACKAGE INSERT: ADVERSE REACTIONS

MERCK SAYS REPORT ADVERSE REACTIONS TO THE VAERS:

ADVERSE REACTIONS.
Patients, parents, or guardians should be instructed to report any serious adverse reactions to their
health-care provider who in turn should report such events to the U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), 1-800-822-7967.47
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

ITS REAL, AND WE CAN DO BETTER. ONCE CORPORATIONS DON'T GUARD THE HENHOUSE.

[salvorhardin]

43. I have no idea what you're talking about

What is real? Please be specific.

[uppityperson]

57. "ITS REAL, AND WE CAN DO BETTER. ONCE CORPORATIONS DON'T GUARD THE HENHOUSE."? What is "real"?

[flyingobject]

37. Safety and effectiveness of measles vaccine in infants ... 6 months have not been estab

FULL SENTENCE FROM MERC MMR PACKAGE INSERT:

Safety and effectiveness of measles vaccine in infants below the age of 6 months have not been
established

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

[Orrex]

38. I'd have thought that four cut-and-paste posts in a row would constitute spamming

But, hey, that's just me.

[flyingobject]

45. The disclosures are Merck's butt cover, along with Vac Injury Fund

you wouldn't get it, that is exactly right.

[Orrex]

46. What would be really refreshing

Would be to see two consecutive posts by you that weren't 100% cut-and-paste and didn't contain a personal attack.

I know. Too much to hope for.

Since you antivaxers don't have facts on their side, you tend to flail around until they find something else.

[flyingobject]

52. please get out the bovine excrement detector

or not, just keep up the personal attacks.

When you have nothing else, stick with what you are used to.

[flyingobject]

53. here:

if facts are posted, you whine. if facts NOT posted, you whine.

[uppityperson]

56. I think they would have to be the same one over and over, or

have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Somehow posting inserts to vaccinations are related to peanut butter.

[trotsky]

40. Which is why the first dose isn't generally given until 12 mo.

Really, I have to wonder what you're hoping to accomplish by spamming and screaming?

[LeftishBrit]

51. Yes. Also measles vaccination is likely to be ineffective if given too early

I understand that you need to have reached a certain age (late first year, I think) for immunity to measles to develop properly. The same is true of the actual disease. Babies who got measles in their first year often got it again later, because they didn't develop adequate immunity from the first time. My father had measles at 6 months, and then again at about 5 years.

[salvorhardin]

44. As trotsky pointed out

Infants younger than 12 mos. are not given vaccinations. You're just being nonsensical now.

[semillama]

47. To clarify on your post: MMR is not given to infants under 12 mos.

Rotavirus, HepB, DTaP, Hib, PCV, and IPV are all given under 12 months.

:hi:

[salvorhardin]

54. Good catch

Thanks for the correction.

[LeftishBrit]

55. Then don't give it to infants under 6 months

But as a matter of fact, they don't get it that young anyway. Babies too young to be vaccinated are protected by the fact that their older siblings and other children in the community have been vaccinated.

[uppityperson]

58. Which is why they don't recommend it to infants under 6 months.

It probably hasn't been established for dogs either. Or elephants.

[flyingobject]

49. strangley, you are so predictable

and same old shit, different day.

[uppityperson]

59. Congratulations. It took 3...

ITS REAL, AND WE CAN DO BETTER. ONCE CORPORATIONS DON'T GUARD THE HENHOUSE.