"Study links vaccines containing mercury with autism"

[bloom]

...In the late 1980s into the 1990s the CDC expanded the number of TCVs to be given to children. Because of this increase a child could have received as much as 200 micrograms (µg) of mercury during the first six months of life. During the same time epidemic levels of neurodevelopmental disorders (NDs) including autism were observed that, “cannot be explained by immigration, changed diagnostic criteria, or improved identification.”

The authors hypothesized that since thimerosal has been removed from many vaccines that this decrease in thimerosal exposure should be accompanied with a decrease in autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders. “Assuming a 3- to 4- year lag time between birth and diagnosis of an ND, the peak followed by a decline in NDs would be expected to occur around 2002 if thimerosal had a significant impact on NDs.”

Using the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) and CDDS (California Department of Developmental Services) databases, the independent researchers analyzed reports of childhood NDs, including autism, before and after removal of mercury-based preservatives.

From the data the authors determine that, “overall, it appears that the increasing and subsequent decreasing trends in the rates of NDs, observed in both the VAERS and CDDS databases, correlate with temporal periods when the cumulative amount of mercury in the childhood immunization schedule expanded and later contracted.” Continuing the authors note that, “the consistency of the effects observed for the spectrum of NDs, including autism and speech disorders, and the agreement between the observations from two separate databases, support the conclusion that the effect is real and not a chance observation....”

http://www.healthsentinel.com/org_news.php?id=082&title=Study+links+vaccines+containing+mercury+with+autism&event=org_news_print_list_item

[bloom]

1. Medical Quote of the Month (March 2006):

"These researchers confirmed that thimerosal crosses the blood-brain barrier and results in appreciable mercury content in tissues including the brain. They determined the overall half-life of mercury in the brain of the infant monkeys examined was approximately 24 days. In addition, it was determined that the concentration of inorganic mercury in the brains of the thimerosal-treated infant monkeys averaged 16 ppb following the dosing schedule, and the half-life of this inorganic mercury was very long (> 120 days)."

Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons


http://www.healthsentinel.com/index.php

[beam me up scottie]

33. There is no credible link between the MMR vaccine

and any long-term disability, including Crohn’s disease and autism.

Strictly Embargoed until 00:01hours (BST), 19th October 2005

The Cochrane Library publishes the most thorough survey of MMR vaccination data which strongly
supports its use

There was no credible evidence behind claims of harm from the MMR vaccination.
This is the conclusion drawn by the Cochrane Review Authors, an international team
of researchers, after carefully drawing together all of the evidence found in 31 high
quality studies from around the world. They also highlight that the policy of
encouraging mass use of MMR has eliminated the scourge of measles, mumps and
rubella from many countries.

“In particular we conclude that all the major unintended events, such as triggering
Crohn’s disease or autism, were suspected on the basis of unreliable evidence,” says
lead author Dr Vittorio Demicheli who works at Servizo Sovrazonale di
Epidemiologia, Alessandria, Italy.

These findings will be published on 19 October, 2005 in The Cochrane Library¹.

“Public health decisions need to be based on sound evidence. If this principle had
been applied in the case of the MMR dispute, then we would have avoided all the
fuss,” says Demicheli.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/homepages/106568753/PR_mmr.pdf

[depakid]

37. See post #36

Seems we have a fundamental difference in philosophy regarding prudence and regulatory policy.

[beam me up scottie]

39. There are always risks involved in practicing medicine.

I choose to listen to the experts, not emotional activists.

[depakid]

42. I choose to follow the policies that kept Thalidomide

away from pregnant women. I see absolutely NO difference between that issue and this one (other than the fact that there's more evidence in this instance to support banning thimerisol).

Sad that the FDA has become nothing but a politicized and corrupted shell of its former self that goes so far as to suppress the findings of its own lead researchers. And also sad that it's gotten so bad that JAMA has had to call for the creation of a new, independent agency because of it.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/23/MNGSPA04NI1.DTL

[beam me up scottie]

44. Right.

This report was based on a flawed study.

Period.

And just like the rest of the idiotic conspiracy theories, we're expected to take the word of a lot of upset and emotional people and the pseudo-scientists who make their living by scaring them.

Kevin Trudeau would be proud.

[philb]

116. But JAMA, etc. say doctor mistakes/pharms are no. 1 cause of hospitalizati

ons and deaths. So one needs to be very careful of their treatment.

http://www.flcv.com/iatrogen.html

(I think this is the right cite)

[philb]

61. Actually there is documentation to the contrary, that MMR clearly

has caused a lot of adverse effects, including autism, etc. But you are distracting attention again from the issue that was posted.
MMR has nothing to do with the original post, I think, it was related to the effects of mercury thimerosal causing millions of cases of autism and similar I believe. http://www.flcv.com/kidshg.html

But its also a matter of record from the large number of cases of adverse effects and autism documented after MMR in the U.S. CDC data files.

But there is also documentation of a lot of specific cases of leaky gut, measles virus effects, disregulated metabolisms, etc.
caused by MMR by individual doctors treating those affected.


(37) (a)Wakefield A et al, Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia and pervasive developmental disorder in children.

Lancet 1998, 351(9103):637-41; & Kawashima H, Mori T, Kashiwagi Y, Takekuma K, Hoshika A, Wakefield A. Detection and sequencing of measles virus from peripheral mononuclear cells from patinets with inflamatory bowel and autism. Dig Dis Sci 2000 45(4):723-9; & Wakefield A et al, Inflammatory bowel disease syndrome and autism, Lancet, Feb 27, 2000; & (b)Singh VK; Lin SX; Yang VC. Serological association of measles virus and human herpesvirus 6 with brain autoantibodies in autism. Clin Immunol Immunopathol 1998 Oct;89(1):105 8; & G. Bell, Sterling Univ., Evidence of Toxic Metals/MMR connection in Autism, Autism Research Trust, 2002

[beam me up scottie]

62. Nope. They have concluded otherwise. See my other posts.

I'm sure hearing arguments from ignorance and emotional wishful thinking do lead many to believe autism is caused by vaccines.

It just isn't so.

[philb]

84. Not true, I've cited the peer-reviewed studies that document

harm, and if you look at them it is clear that there can be no doubt about it. Any doctor seeing the evidence would conclude the same. These were tests on real people, and the tests were conclusive. I'm not aware that anyone is suggesting otherwise.

You have to be careful with epidemeological studies, besides the fact that its very hard to control or account for
other exposures or factors(if not impossible) there are well known problems with the one you cite.

[MockSwede]

91. Neural Gourmet

Thanks for the signature line - lead me to a new forum.

[ruthg]

2. Whoa....

There it is then. Damn. I have tears of anger in my eyes. What a lot of suffering this has caused.

[havocmom]

3. Not surprised studies find trouble here

and won't be surprised when other studies (funded my Big Pharm) dispute

:popcorn: and get the stopwatch out to time the replies ;)

[Peanutcat]

4. Must kick this for a friend of mine

Her son has autism.

[bloom]

5. If she isn't already...

She might want to get on the emailing list:


Autism Society of America
7910 Woodmont Avenue Suite 300 * Bethesda, MD 20814-3067
Phone: 1-800-3AUTISM (1-800-328-8476)
Web: http://www.autism-society.org/



- They are the ones who forwarded the article.

[Peanutcat]

11. Thanks!

I'm sure she knows about it, she's very well-informed on the subject, but I'll send it to here anyway. That is, if the fucking server there wo0uld quit going down!:argh:

[Peanutcat]

56. Kick again!

:kick: Still can't get this info to her . . . .

[Warpy]

6. If it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...

This has been researched to death by pediatricians, pediatric neurologists, and other real scientists with real educations.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/thimerosal.html

A clearing house for much of the ongoing legitimate research is at:

http://www.geocities.com/issues_in_immunization/

You might want to pay particular attention to this article on the page:

http://www.autisticsociety.org/article496.html

[bloom]

10. Sorry - but it's the Quackwatch people that are the Quacks

the guy in charge of it had his license revoked.

I don't know why I would listen to anything he or his organization had to say.

[Warpy]

12. No, honey, they're SCIENTISTS

I'm afraid that people who cling to the silly and completely disproven, irrational belief that thimerosol in vaccines causes autism are the quacks.

I would strongly suggest you read the sites I posted. You are in error about this and are being misled by hysterics.

[bloom]

13. No, honey - you're wrong

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm


""Quackbusting" - is a Profitable Business...

Frankly, "quackbusting" is a profitable industry, and Stephen Barrett plays it to the hilt.

In a Canadian lawsuit (see below) Barrett admitted to the following:

"The sole purpose of the activities of Barrett & Baratz are to discredit and cause damage and harm to health care practitioners, businesses that make alternative health therapies or products available, and advocates of non-allopathic therapies and health freedom."

Stephen Barrett testifies for money. He claims he's an "expert" in virtually everything. Those "expert witness" fees seem to be a significant part of Barrett's existence.

In a California Court case, former Barrett peer, and fellow Board Member of the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF), William Jarvis PhD, testified, under oath, that Stephen Barrett and Robert Baratz conspired to use the NCAHF, without Board permission, as a Plaintiff in over 40 cases in California, where Barrett and Baratz were to testify as "expert witnesses," and get expert witness fees. The NCAHF Board was never consulted....

And this from a man who is a professional failure.

Records show that Barrett never achieved any success in the medical profession. His claim to being a "retired Psychiatrist" is laughable. He is, in fact, a "failed Psychiatrist," and a "failed MD."

The Psychiatric profession rejected Barrett years ago, for Barrett could NOT pass the examinations necessary to become "Board Certified." Which, is no doubt why Barrett was, throughout his career, relegated to lower level "part time" positions."

[beam me up scottie]

14. You're wrong.

How dare you post a site that exists only to malign a doctor, publishes his address as well as a picture of his house?

That is the same terrorist tactic used by anti-abortionists.

[salvorhardin]

16. Not to mention that site -- quackpotwatch

Is run by Tim Bolen who works for Hulda Clark (as her "publicist" according to her) and other quacks. He has a sort of quack emergency PR firm called JuriMed, but seems to be about as honest as Clark. No surprise there.

Barrett addresses these claims on his site quite handily: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/bolen.html

The lawsuit mentioned by the previous poster was also withdrawn: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/negrete.html

[beam me up scottie]

17. Thanks, I just Googled and found all kinds of info on him.

What a dirt bag.

Let me get a shovel to dig through this and I'll post some of it.

[salvorhardin]

18. Good analogy

You'd need a shovel, or more like a backhoe, to dig through all the crap Bolen churns out. Then again, that's the way people like Bolen and Hulda Clark operate. They don't have facts or science on their side so they just make tons of shit up in the hopes that some of it will stick. Hey! Much like Clark's own quackery!

[beam me up scottie]

19. Is it true she's a fugitive?

I've never had a chance to follow that lead.

[salvorhardin]

20. I know that as of late 2004 she's residing in Tijuana

I assume that's because she's trying to avoid the FTC judgement against her and her company requiring her to give refunds to all her Super Zapper customers.
Link to PDF of judgement courtesy of Orac (Respectful Insolence): http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0223051/041203stip0223051.pdf
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2004/12/there-is-justice-in-world-after-all.html

Does that technically make her a fugitive? :-)

[beam me up scottie]

21. Not according to the members of her cult.

Thanks for the link, I adore Orac.

[salvorhardin]

22. Heh. Just another persecuted altie. :-D

G'night DU.

[philb]

117. much of the info on Quackpot watch is accurate- none deliberately

bogus such as the Quackwatch site, which is mostly bogus, not credible, as I've documented before
quoting the leading researchers at 2 Universities.
The Quackpot watch site quotes a lot of judge statements in trials, where the Quackwatch people haven't fared well.
The judges have been less than impressed with their lack of legitimate credentials or science.

[beam me up scottie]

122. Right, according to someone who thinks parasites cause cancer.

You have no credibility.

People laugh at your claims, philb.

[MockSwede]

93. Serious reader

Cannot ever remember how long ago it was that I read the book in which the character appears which you've used for your screen name!

[MockSwede]

92. "Board Certified" versus "Professional Failure"

Many healthcare professionals are licensed by their respective states and do not add 'board certifications' to their resumes. NOT being board certified does NOT mean 'unlicensed' or 'incompetent.' It probably DOES mean EXTRA training/study and to be'held to a higher or more rigorous level of competence'. Think college diploma verus diploma with cum laude or summa cum laude.

[philb]

118. the Quackwatch people are neither board certified nor have successful

practices; and given the non-scientific statements they commonly make,
its hard to believe they passed a college science class.
As has been documented in hearings and court cases, and this forum.

[depakid]

24. For the skeptics, run some pub med searches

thimerosol autism

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=thimerosol+autism&tool=fuzzy&ot=thimerisol+autism

mercury autism

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

Then there's the Greier's work:

http://optimalhealthresearch.com/archives/MERCURY-vaccinations-autism.pdf

Seems to me that there's ample evidence to apply the precautionary principle- and avoid thimerosol containing vaccines, particularly during developmental window periods.

[beam me up scottie]

25. An excellent article:

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html

There are many legitimate sources on the web where information on MMR vaccinations can be found.

Sites that promote disinformation and hysteria are much easier to find, unfortunately.

[depakid]

26. Not a big quackwatch fan

Too agenda driven.

On the other hand, I don't mean to suggest that parents should avoid vaccines.

It's the mercury- NOT the vaccines that present the potential problem.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Check the sources.

He's not making this up.

I have the same agenda, actually.
I also hate greedy vultures who lie to people and steal their money.

[depakid]

28. Not all CAM treatments are shams

and anyone who's not suspicious of the AMA party line (or doesn't recognize that the FDA is a captured agency) is doing themselves a disservice.

Medicine in America is a business- and subject to the same sorts of influences as other businesses.

Safe and effective complentary and alternative medicine doesn't fit their business model- so many practicioners aren't aware of the potential benefits of certain treatments and/or supplements. And legitimate research peer reviewed material is often scarce (if available at all) due to lack of funding).

[beam me up scottie]

30. I don't buy into the big pharma/medical mafia hysteria.

Yes, it is a for profit industry and there are doctors and other professionals who are unethical.

But alternative medicine is ALSO a for profit industry, and it's basically unregulated.

Quacks make billions of dollars from unsuspecting patients every year.

Until and unless they can provide scientific evidence that their "treatments" work, it's all snake oil.

[depakid]

35. That you don't buy into it

Doesn't mean it's not true AND that public health officials (and docs and nurses in MPH programs all across the country) aren't well aware of it.

As far as CAM therapies are concerned- double blind clinical trial are expensive- but there's PLENTY of other evidence available. If there's no patent "incentive" you're not going to get much in the literature about Ginkgo, sylmarin, MSM, glucosamine sulfate, EPA's etc.

Some of the work you'll have to go overseas for- where healthcare is NOT for profit- and treatment (and prescribing habits) aren't based on pharmaceutical marketing tactics and conflicts of interests.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Oh please.

Spare me.

If the proponents of snake oil are so concerned about the cost of studies, they should try spending some of their ill gotten gains on them.

The fact is they CAN'T prove their claims so they flood the market and the internet with fear-mongering propaganda.

[depakid]

43. No, spare ME!

You seem to want to throw out the bathwater with the baby. You're absolutely wrong- and somewhat naive if you believe that allopathic medicine is the only- or even the best- course of treatment for every patient.

Some CAM treatments work- and some don't. Like anything else in the healing professions, it depends- and it pays to do your homework.

[beam me up scottie]

46. Allopathic?

You should have used that buzzword in the beginning and I wouldn't have wasted my time.

[depakid]

50. Should I have used "conventional"

So, now all Osteopath's are quacks, too?

[beam me up scottie]

51. Actually, you should have refrained from calling me names.

We're done.

[depakid]

52. ???

Not sure what you mean- and if we're going to get into bitchiness, It'd be nice if you wouldn't keep throwing out strawmen (and women).

You want to rely on the FDA et al. (despite evidence of their negligence- and worse) be my guest. I choose to be realistic and recognize their limitations.

[philb]

85. I've documented that the Quackwatch people aren't credible several times,

why are we still discussing such. Lets stick to real science, and real reserchers, and real peer-reviewed studies.

[beam me up scottie]

31. Re: Geiers

Monday, February 06, 2006

How vaccine litigation distorts the contents of the VAERS database

Advocates who are convinced of a link between the mercury in thimerosal used in vaccines as a preservative and autism often point to data derived from the U. S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) as "evidence" that vaccines cause autism. For example, Mark and David Geier, the father-son team of Don Quixotes of the thimerosal/autism movement, have made a veritable career of dumpster-diving the VAERS database and then using the results as their preferred lance to tilt at their windmills--not to mention to use as "evidence" in representing parents suing the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VCIP). Publications by the Geiers utilizing the VAERS database are often used by litigants as "evidence" for a link between mercury in vaccines and autism.

Unfortunately, the VAERS database is highly unreliable. The reason is that anyone can submit a report to it, and no one actually verifies the accuracy of the report. Indeed, James Laidler once tested the system by submitting a report that the influenza virus had turned him into The Incredible Hulk. The report was accepted and duly entered into the database. This report was so out of the ordinary that a representative actually contacted him and, amazingly, asked his permission to remove the report from the database (proving that it's not easy being green). If Laidler had not given it, the report of an adverse reaction in which the flu vaccine turned a man into a huge, immensely powerful green monster would still be in VAERS. Now, via Kathleen Seidel, who alerted me to this, comes more evidence of the corruption of the VAERS database. This evidence comes in the form of a study published in the most recent issue of the journal Pediatrics, in which the authors examine the question of how much of the seeming increase in autism related to vaccines reported to the VAERS database over the last several years might be related to litigation. Naturally, I couldn't resist downloading the complete article and reading it.

In the study, the authors, Michael J. Goodman and James Nordin, did something incredibly simple that no one had done before. They took data from the VAERS database from 1990 through 2003 and imported it into SAS data files for analysis. Then they searched the database using key words to look for reports associated with litigation, particularly with regards to autism. They searched for records containing "thimerosal," "mercury," or "autism" in their fields, especially when coupled with terms like "lawyer," "legal," "attorney," or "litigate," while excluding records containing "legal" coupled with the term "guardian" that did not relate to litigation. They also excluded cases related to well characterized allergic reactions to thimerosal. Finally, they compared records from nonlitigation cases to those from litigation cases regarding symptomatology reported.

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2006/02/how-vaccine-litigation-distorts.html

[beam me up scottie]

34. Here's one I like:

Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK.

Department of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital and University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, Colorado 80262, USA.

OBJECTIVE: The issue of thimerosal-containing vaccines as a possible cause of autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) and neurodevelopmental disorders (NDDs) has been a controversial topic since 1999. Although most practitioners are familiar with the controversy, many are not familiar with the type or quality of evidence in published articles that have addressed this issue. To assess the quality of evidence assessing a potential association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism and evaluate whether that evidence suggests accepting or rejecting the hypothesis, we systematically reviewed published articles that report original data pertinent to the potential association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD/NDDs. METHODS: Articles for analysis were identified in the National Library of Medicine's Medline database using a PubMed search of the English-language literature for articles published between 1966 and 2004, using keywords thimerosal, thiomersal, mercury, methylmercury, or ethylmercury alone and combined with keywords autistic disorder, autistic spectrum disorder, and neurodevelopment. In addition, we used the "related links" option in PubMed and reviewed the reference sections in the identified articles. All original articles that evaluated an association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD/NDDs or pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury in vaccines were included. RESULTS: Twelve publications that met the selection criteria were identified by the literature search: 10 epidemiologic studies and 2 pharmacokinetic studies of ethylmercury. The design and quality of the studies showed significant variation. The preponderance of epidemiologic evidence does not support an association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD. Epidemiologic studies that support an association are of poor quality and cannot be interpreted. Pharmacokinetic studies suggest that the half-life of ethylmercury is significantly shorter when compared with methylmercury. CONCLUSIONS: Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342856&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

[depakid]

36. Note that I mentioned something called the precautionary principle

Are you familiar with it?

(I recognize that it's one of those Canadian and European things).

[beam me up scottie]

41. Note that medicine always has risks.

I recognize that requiring evidence is a skeptic thing.

[depakid]

45. Not a very persuasive argument

for incurring potential (and largely unneccessary) risks.

Bet the people who took Cox-2 inhibitors wish they'd considered that....

[beam me up scottie]

47. Right, let's all stop taking medicine and listening to the scientists.

Because people like Hulda Clark and Kevin Trudeau will tell us everything we need to know.

[MockSwede]

94. COX-2

ANOTHER overblown issue. Relative to the numbers of people HELPED, those that were 'harmed' and some were, is smaller than a percentage. Potential liability analysis rather than actual cause and effect and 'reasonable man' risk analysis did, and DIDN'T occur, respectively. When it's you, I know it's a 100% effect, but if it's helping 10,000 others, isn't that worth it? Relative benefit/risk assessment and informed consent, etc.

[MockSwede]

90. Greiers

They are so discredited, I would not have listed them as support.

http://photoninthedarkness.blogspot.com/

[philb]

64. I've documented before that the Quackwatch people are the quacks

they actually are worse it appears to me. They appear to be people who post and publicize known disinformation,
even when its been discredited and they are aware of it. And it seems that distribution of this disinformation provides their
main income- since they don't appear to have credible credentials to support a medical practice, from what I've seen.

I've previously posted statements by the 2 most prestegious Chemistry Department researchers at 2 universities that points out
that what the Quackwatch spokesman says about the mercury issue is either based on incompetance or dishonesty.

such as:

Review of FDA witness Dr. Robert Baratz testimony before the Florida Dental Board by 2 distinguished Chemistry Professors and Researchers
******************************************************************************

snip from review of Dr. Baratz testimony before the Florida Dental Board by Dr. Ralph Dougherty, Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Florida State Univ.
850-644-5725

“I have qualified as an expert witness in chemistry and toxicology in both federal and state courts. I have conducted extensive research in analytical toxicology. I have more than 100 papers published in refereed journals.”

“To allege that there is no mercury in mercury amalgam as Dr. Baratz has done in his sworn testimony before the Florida Dental Board is either a reflection of ignorence, or intent to deceive.”
Sincerely,

Ralph Dougherty
*****************************************************************************
Dr. Boyd E. Haley
Chair, Department of Chemistry
University of Kentucky
www.altcorp.com

3 January 2002

The following is my comments on the content and specific statements made in the Sept. 29th Florida Dental Board where the FDA presented “Amalgam Related Material” to support their proposed rule. Please feel free to share it with whomever you wish and especially the Florida Dental Board (FDA). Sincerely, Boyd Haley





With regards to statements made by Dr. Baratz. First, to be an esteemed academic as claimed one should hold an academic position and publish articles in refereed journals on his subject of expertise. I have been unable to find a single research article on mercury or amalgams or about anything authored by Dr. Baratz. I further could not find any source of academic appointments in tenure leading positions. With my personal knowledge of numerous outstanding and productive academic research scientists available to the FDA for consultation I am somewhat perplexed that they would select someone with such weak credentials---unless they were searching for someone who would adamantly support their preconceived position of amalgams being totally safe. Dr. Baratz is evidently well known for taking that position. Finally, statements made by Dr. Baratz concerning amalgams and chemistry in general are so pathetic that they almost defy sensible analysis. I WOULD CHALLENGE THE FDA TO TRY TO GET THE DEPARTMENT CHAIRS OF CHEMISTY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY TO AGREE WITH DR. BARATZ’S COMMENTS REGARDING THE CHEMISTRY OF AMALGAMS AND MERCURY. However, knowing this is unlikely I will deal as best I can with Dr. Baratz’s statements one at a time in order of presentation. (he has a long review of Baratz testimony- in which he points out the many obsurdities in Baratz testimony-
which are also included on the Quackwatch website- seems they don't learn- even from embarassment)

I could post the details of the testimony, and of the rebuttal. The rebuttal side obviously was the more credible and won.

Also, people should be careful about posting from such sites whose purpose seems to be to mislead. I assume that when statements have been discredited by credible scientists in hearings and court, that the misinformation would be taken from the web site. This doesn't appear to happen. Why? I think its obvious. Even a good high school science student student could see obvious disinformation on the Quackwatch site. If people really want to debate the crediblity, I can go into specifics about info on the site- with peer-reviewed doc. to the contrary.

[trotsky]

71. philb, you use the word "quack" differently than everyone else.

To most of the world, a quack is someone who (knowingly or unknowingly) promotes a false and/or unproven claim regarding a health issue.

To you, a "quack" is someone who disagrees with you.

[beam me up scottie]

74. That's not the only word he uses differently from everyone else.

What do you expect from someone who thinks the plural of anecdote is 'data'?

:rofl:

quip courtesy of NG

[MockSwede]

95. Anecdote

Man, I've been stomping that 'anecdote' into the ground so long my feet hurt. Thanks for the 'plural of datum', to give me a smile while continuing to stomp.

[philb]

86. Actually the word quack originally had to do with dentists who use

mercury in dental work. Dentists who would use a well known extremely toxic substance, that isn't stable and is constantly vaporizing at room temperature, and also subject to galvanic currents that pump metals into the body continuously was called a Quack- which came from the German word for mercury.

The AMA was set up for the purpose of promoting quackery- that is the use of mercury in dentistry, and I would admit that they've been pretty successful at it. But now given the obvious major harm caused to people and the environment by amalgam, its clear that things have to change and amalgam has to be phased out. So the common use should go back to what it originally was- quackery is those who promote use of mercury and the spread of mercury in the environment- since it is a universal poison currently affecting everyone worldwide, and with amalgam being the source of mercury that most effects the most people- which again has been fully documented in the medical literature and by Gov't agencies.

Though many of the people on this forum don't seem to be aware of whats going on in the world, the tide has turned,
and countries, states, people are learning the truth that mercury is affecting huge numbers of people, and amalgam is the largest source of exposure in most people with amalgam, this is documented with certainty:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr1.html

anyone disagree???

and commonly causes adverse health effects and major effects on the environment, thus again on people

http:/www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html
http://www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html

anyone disagree?
why?

[trotsky]

88. What's absolutely hilarious...

is that the "professional" dentists and organizations that you now rail against WERE the frontline against amalgam when it was first introduced. They hated the idea that dentistry could be cheap and effective, they wanted to make lots of money.

Isn't it funny that you're on their side?

http://www.doctorspiller.com/mercury.htm

[philb]

120. It was documented by studies, clinical experience prior to 1900 that

mercury amalgam commonly caused adverse health effects, which is why dentists who used amalgam were called quacks.
I could post documentation using peer-reviewed articles prior to 1900 that makes the case that amalgam commonly causes harm.
ADA was organized to promote amalgam by pro-amalgam groups and they've been very effective at it- though they've caused harm to millions of peoples health.

But the case is even stronger now,
since its been documented by medical labs that dental amalgam is the largest source of both organic and inorganic mercury
in those with several amalgams- who have approx. 10 times higher exposure than those without.
www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr1.html

and that those with amalgams commonly have serious adverse health effects
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr3.html
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html

and that dentists and dental staff at offices that use amalgam commonly have adverse health effects of
the high mercury levels in such dental offices
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/dental.html

and that due to the large amounts of mercury into sewers from dental offices and those who have amalgam fillings,
dental amalgam is the largest source of mercury in sewers, and a major source of mercury in water bodies,
fish, and the atmosphere- since high levels of mercury outgas at sewer plants and from where sewer sludge is landspread
or landfilled. ORNL has found that soil bacteria methylate inorganic mercury to methyl mercury and both elemental mercury vapor and methyl mercury outgas when the sun shines. Plus high levels of emissions from crematoriums from those with dental amalgams.
http://www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html

Over 30% of water bodies and most bays now have warnings to limit fish consumption.
Its documented that the mercury in one amalgam filling is enough to contaminate all fish in a 10 acre lake to the extent
that eating them would be dangerous. See the paper above.

[beam me up scottie]

15. That's a lie spread by quacks who have been sued by Dr. Barrett.

Dr. Barrett did not have his license revoked, he is retired and can reactivate his license any time.

You really should do some research before you slander people.

Just so you know, websites that exist only to slander and encourage others to attack him are not credible sources.

[philb]

66. I hear Dr. Barrett was not competant enough to pass the Board Exam in his

field, and apparently couldn't maintain a serious real practice. Though its possible he retired because of
other difficulties not in the record, it doesn't matter. It seems he had to fall back on spreading disinformation
for pay to make a living. And he obviously hasn't fared very well in court- where his incompetance and lack of
knowledge have been evident, including from statements by the presiding judges. see Quackpot Watch court documentation

But his cohort, Baratz is similar- see the other post regarding Baratz, whose statements have also been discredited in Hearings, court.

Since you don't seem to have much personal knowledge about the issues being discussed here, based on the lack of
credible support or documentation for your positions in your posts- other than from highly questionable sites, what is the reason for your active interest in these issues?
Is this a personal thing based on personal experience, or are you connected to the Quackwatch people?

[beam me up scottie]

67. I know how much you love hearsay, but again, that story isn't true.

If I ever find myself in need of an alleged engineer's opinion on medical science, I'll look you up.

[philb]

87. I've written books with doctors, write articles in medical newsletters,

am quoted by a lot of doctors, have lots of article that have been peer-reviewed and translated into many languages, I've had web pages of my papers on several university web sites in other countries, am internationally known, and some of my papers have been used as part of the curiculum in med schools in more than one countries. I can document that. I can also cite a lot of extremely respected experts. But lets stick to science, since you can find an expert to say almost anything if you have enough money. I have 3 MDs and several PhDs in my family and have discussed much of this with them and my own MDs, though we don't perhaps totally agree on everything, they mostly don't have major problems with much in my papers, and are in general agreement with me on most things.

It should be obvious I've done a lot of research on how the body works, health, medical conditions, etc. and
If you can find someone you think is an expert, I'll be glad to discuss the mechanisms by which mercury is known to cause over 30 chronic conditions, which are fully documented and explained in my papers that I've cited, and that many experts have
read and we've discussed. My papers represent almost 30 years of research, and if you find a problem with one I would be very interested in discussing the problem.

There seems to be a lot of talk but no science to the contrary being posted.
If I get time, I'll try to look again. I try to answer any credible question, and many that aren't as well.

[trotsky]

89. That's libel, philb.

The smear campaign against Barrett and other truthtellers on the Internet is exposed here:

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/bolen.html

In November 1999, Bolen began distributing false and defamatory statements to the effect that I am arrogant, bizarre, closed-minded, emotionally disturbed, professionally incompetent, intellectually dishonest, a dishonest journalist, sleazy, unethical, a quack, a thug, a bully, a Nazi, a hired gun for vested interests, the leader of a subversive organization, and engaged in criminal activity (conspiracy, extortion, filing a false police report, and other unspecified acts). Bolen also began claiming that Terry Polevoy, MD (a Canadian pediatrician who operates anti-quackery Web sites) is dishonest, closed-minded, emotionally disturbed, professionally incompetent, unethical, a quack, a fanatic, a Nazi, a hired gun for vested interests, and engaged in criminal activity (conspiracy, stalking of females, and other unspecified acts) and has made anti-Semitic remarks. In 2000, after Attorney Christopher Grell, of San Francisco filed a suit on behalf of a former Clark patient who accused her of fraud, Bolen issued defamatory message charging that Grell is professionally incompetent and had filed a false report with the FBI.

In 2001, after learning that the Florida Board of Dentistry had asked Robert S. Baratz, MD, DDS, PhD, to provide expert testimony against Dr. Phillips, Bolen issued a series of libelous reports claiming that Baratz was emotionally unstable, had committed perjury, and had misrepresented many of his credentials in order to market himself as an expert witness. Most of these messages were republished by Clark supporters on Web sites, in news group postings, and in other e-mail messages. In 2003, Bolen began "helping" Dr. Kadile's defense by issuing further lies about Dr. Baratz.

None of us are thin-skinned or care when people attack our ideas. But unjustified attacks on our character or professional competence are another matter. As Bolen's campaign unfolded, my colleagues and I have notified him and many of the people spreading his messages that libel is a serious matter and that they had better stop. Some did, but it soon became clear that others would not. To defend ourselves, several of us have filed suit for libel...

Funny. You'd think with the volume of truth on your side, philb, that your cohorts wouldn't have to resort to lying all the time.

[beam me up scottie]

121. No, I do this for free. I just hate quacks, liars and wanna-be experts.

If I need medical advice, I'll get it from a professional, not a quack who has no credibility because he thinks parasites cause cancer and Zappers cure it.

[truedelphi]

7. Politics make strange bed fellows

Interestingly enough, one of the top spokespeople of
this issue is none other than Sen Dan Burton of Indiana (Rep)

Don't know if he is still in office. But in Spring of 2000
he assembled a world-class panel of experts on the autism-vaccine issue.

It included Andrew Wakefield and his MMR vaccine study.

Waxman a Democrat and member of the House (from California) was
totally contemptuous of the panel. He apparently had been bought out by the Big Pharama side... He also opposes our ability to go to health food store and buy those
"killer" vitamins.

[truedelphi]

8. And the panel showed that it is NOT genetics

Burton had as one of the participants and witnesses on the panel
a woman who had identical twin boys.

One of the twins was sick on a day when she took the kids in for the
routine "well baby" clinic.

The boys were both vaccinated.

The twin who was sick became autistic. The other boy developped into
a normal healthy child.

[Odin2005]

23. Actually, it IS genetic.

They have isolated the gene wose mutant form causes autism on the X chromosome. A dopamine receptor gene, IIRC.

[truedelphi]

70. Okay But Think About It

They now find Genetic indications for so many diseases.

But think about it.

I'll give you the statistics on breast cancer (as those are the
statistics that I am most familiar with)

In Japan in 1900 only one woman in 65 had breast cancer.

Now of course, cancer was a disease that was considered embarrassing.
So let's say that maybe twice as many women had the disease as admitted to having it.

SO let's say for the point of discussion that two out of sixty-five women came
down with breast cancer over their lifetime.

Now if you follow Japanese women who moved here to the USA and adopted our lifestyle,
all of a sudden, within one generation, the Japanesse women have the same statistics that
we Western culture individuals have - one in eight.

How is that possible? Genetic material cannot possibly go haywire in so short a time.

Except for environmental influences.

here in the West we have food that is contaminated with pesticides, our air in our cities
is heavy with petrochemicals from our cars and busses.

And our diets do not have the protective factors that the Japanese diet - high in
such things as seaweed etc have.

So the spread of cancer or other disease (the auto-immune system diseases like fibromyalgia,
Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, autism, etc those things are increasing in numbers so high
that they are off the charts)must be considered to have an environmental factor that when
blended with the given genetics of an individual drives the individual's body into getting sick.
component as well as genetic.

[Orrex]

72. Did Japanese women wear underwire bras prior to coming to the US?

They're not listed as a cause of breast cancer, but some correlation has been noted. Something to do with constriction of the lymph system, I believe.

Of course, as soon as they got to the US, they probably had amalgam fillings installed in all of their teeth, so I suspect that mercury is to blame.

[Orrex]

73. Damn Thimerosal--screwing with those innocent genes! (nt)

[RedOnce]

9. FYI, here is a link to a PDF of the full study text...

http://www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol8no1/geier.pdf

[beam me up scottie]

32. See post #31

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=5604&mesg_id=5672

[RedOnce]

53. I am aware of the controversy. Here are links that explore both sides:

Background

In 1999, the mercury-based preservative thimerosal was removed from most childhood vaccines as a “precautionary” measure, but vaccines were not recalled and could be used up until their expiration date, as late as 2003. The total mercury dose that children under 5 years of age could have received from childhood vaccines declined from around 240 micrograms in 1999 to nearly zero in 2003, but could now increase to nearly 60 mcg if new recommendations to require annual influenza vaccine between the ages of 2 and 5 years are followed.

Proof of a causal relationship between thimerosal and neurodevelopment disorders could have serious repercussions for government agencies and drug companies. California and five other states have passed laws banning the use of thimerosal in vaccines for pregnant women and children, except in a public health emergency. Eleven other states are considering similar legislation, which is meeting stiff opposition.

Because of an immunity provision tucked into a must-pass defense appropriations bill last Christmas, trial lawyers say it will be nearly impossible for persons injured by a vaccine to force manufacturers to compensate them.

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. http://www.aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday265.php

This Study Is Controversial

Part of the controversy is related to possible problems with the data bases used.

Analysis of two independent government databases shows that the alarming increase in reported cases of autism not only slowed but actually reversed since thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines, according to the lead article in the spring 2006 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.

“This study is exactly the kind of thing people have been waiting for for three years now,” stated Richard Deth, a neuropharmacologist at Northwestern University (MetroWest Daily News 3/2/06).

Dr. Robert Davis, director at the immunization safety group at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) disagreed: “I don’t think this study can really be taken to provide any evidence one way or the other” (ibid.).

According to a study by HealthPartners Research published in Pediatrics, February 2006, 25 percent of reports in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) that correlate thimerosal and autism were filed by lawyers, rather than “healthcare providers.” Thus, authors claim that VAERS data are biased because of litigation (MarketWire.com.)

The other government database relied upon in the J P&S article, from the California Department of Developmental Services (CDDS), has been called “skewed” because of a change in diagnostic criteria. CDC director Julie Geberding said that the autism rate reported by CDDS “sort of like the stock market bounces around a little bit.”

Columnist Dan Olmsted writes that the theme song of the CDC as it struggles with concerns over thimerosal and autism should be “Pretzel Logic,” as from the Steely Dan album.

According to two databases, rates went up steadily as thimerosal dose increased, then turned around and started to decline as thimerosal was removed, “but so what, say the CDC and others who are on record (and, let’s face it, on the line) backing thimerosal to the hilt” (Dan Olmsted, “The Age of Autism: Pay No Attention,” RedOrbit 3/2/06).

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. http://www.aapsonline.org/nod/newsofday265.php

Autism Rates Decline as Mercury Removed from Childhood Vaccines

An article in the March 10, 2006 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons shows that since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines, the alarming increase in reported rates of autism and other neurological disorders (NDs) in children not only stopped, but actually dropped sharply – by as much as 35%.

The numbers from California show that reported autism rates hit a high of 800 in May 2003. If that trend had continued, the reports would have skyrocketed to more than 1000 by the beginning of 2006. But in fact, the Geiers report that the number actually went down to only 620, a real decrease of 22%, and a decrease from the projections of 35%.

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. http://www.aapsonline.org/press/nr-03-02-2006.php

The Study Abstract:

In this study, we evaluated doses of mercury from thimerosal-containing childhood immunizations in comparison to US Federal Safety Guidelines and the effects of increasing doses of mercury on the incidence of neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease. This study showed that children received mercury from this source in excess of the Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of methylmercury. Our analyses showed increasing relative risks for neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease with increasing doses of mercury. This study provides strong epidemiological evidence for a link between mercury exposure from thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders.

Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons http://www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol8no1/geier.pdf

The Study Conclusion:

This study provides strong epidemiological evidence for a link between increasing mercury from thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease. In light of voluminous literature supporting the biologic mechanisms for mercury-induced adverse reactions, the presence of amounts of mercury in thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines exceeding Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of mercury, and previous epidemiological studies showing adverse reactions from such vaccines, a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders and heart disease appears to be confirmed. It is to be hoped that complete removal of thimerosal from all childhood vaccines will help to stem the tragic, apparently iatrogenic epidemic of autism and speech disorders that the United States is now facing.

Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons http://www.aapsonline.org/jpands/vol8no1/geier.pdf

NOTE: The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is the peer-reviewed quarterly journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), a non-partisan professional association founded in 1943.

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. - A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943

[beam me up scottie]

58. Thanks for the balance.

Most skeptics abhor the frauds who make money from desperate patients, but as skeptics we must never claim absolute knowledge.

[RedOnce]

68. You're welcome. Btw, infants and toddlers are the patients!

They are our children and our grandchildren! Let's get to the bottom of this, one way or another.

[beam me up scottie]

29. More info

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/06/thimerosal-and-autism-two-questions.html

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/07/if-you-think-its-just-about-mercury.html

[beam me up scottie]

38. This is based on a flawed database without verification of the reports.

Monday, February 06, 2006
How vaccine litigation distorts the contents of the VAERS database

Unfortunately, the VAERS database is highly unreliable. The reason is that anyone can submit a report to it, and no one actually verifies the accuracy of the report. Indeed, James Laidler once tested the system by submitting a report that the influenza virus had turned him into The Incredible Hulk. The report was accepted and duly entered into the database. This report was so out of the ordinary that a representative actually contacted him and, amazingly, asked his permission to remove the report from the database (proving that it's not easy being green). If Laidler had not given it, the report of an adverse reaction in which the flu vaccine turned a man into a huge, immensely powerful green monster would still be in VAERS. Now, via Kathleen Seidel, who alerted me to this, comes more evidence of the corruption of the VAERS database. This evidence comes in the form of a study published in the most recent issue of the journal Pediatrics, in which the authors examine the question of how much of the seeming increase in autism related to vaccines reported to the VAERS database over the last several years might be related to litigation. Naturally, I couldn't resist downloading the complete article and reading it.

In the study, the authors, Michael J. Goodman and James Nordin, did something incredibly simple that no one had done before. They took data from the VAERS database from 1990 through 2003 and imported it into SAS data files for analysis. Then they searched the database using key words to look for reports associated with litigation, particularly with regards to autism. They searched for records containing "thimerosal," "mercury," or "autism" in their fields, especially when coupled with terms like "lawyer," "legal," "attorney," or "litigate," while excluding records containing "legal" coupled with the term "guardian" that did not relate to litigation. They also excluded cases related to well characterized allergic reactions to thimerosal. Finally, they compared records from nonlitigation cases to those from litigation cases regarding symptomatology reported.

Not surprisingly, beginning in 2001, they noted a dramatic increase in the number of non-Lyme disease VAERS reports related to litigation, from only 7 in 2000 to 213 in 2002 and 108 in 2003. (They attributed the decline in 2003 reports to processing delays in creating public use files.) Next, they examined symptom sets related to symptom sets. For autism, they observed a dramatic increase in the percentage of litigation-related reports from 0% of the reports related to litigation in 1999 to over one-third (35%) in 2002. For records mentioning thimerosal that weren't related to allergic reactions, the rise was even more dramatic, from 0% of these reports related to litigation in 2000 to 87% in 2002.

This study once again hammers home the inherent unreliability of the VAERS database as a tool for longitudinal studies of the rate of vaccine-related complications. Not only can anyone access it and enter reports without verification, but there is no denominator, which means testing for causality is not even possible with VAERS. Worse, as the authors point out, the rate of reporting of autism as a complication of vaccines is easily influenced by numerous external factors. For example, the authors pointed out that 75% of the autism reports in VAERS between 1990 and 2001 were received not long after the the publication of the the now utterly and completely discredited Wakefield study that claimed to find a link between the MMR vaccine and autism and that 2/3 were received after the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation that thimerosal be removed from vaccines. And it's not just autism. For example, in 2002, half the reports to the VAERS database about mental retardation were related to litigation. The authors conclude:

The findings raise an important question about possible misuse of VAERS in the litigation process. When a study is being used to influence important public health decisions, it is important that reviewers and editors fully understand how the data were constructed and their source. Until now, no one has described the magnitude of litigation-related reporting and how these reports might potentially change the results of studies using VAERS data. Longitudinal studies using VAERS data should explicitly take into account changes in reporting sources like the one described in this article.

It is impossible to determine the effect of these reports on existing analyses because the existing literature does not describe carefully inclusion and exclusion criteria. For the conditions reviewed here, it is apparent that a large enough percentage of reports are being made related to litigation that failure to exclude these will seriously skew trends. This is important for vaccines that contain thimerosal, and specifically for the MMR vaccine because of the controversy surrounding its relationship to autism. It therefore is incumbent on the authors who use VAERS data to provide detailed methods sections that describe their inclusion and exclusion criteria. To that end, we are making our SAS code available to interested parties. It is not sufficient simply to reference extraction of the VAERS data set.

Indeed it is not. Computer programmers have a famous saying: "Garbage in, garbage out," meaning that the quality of the results of an analysis can be no better than the quality of the data upon which the analysis relies. Without correction for factors such as the ones for which the authors of this study tried to correct, the VAERS database definitely qualifies as "garbage in" when used to try to follow the incidence of vaccine-related complications over time. The VAERS database may serve a very important function as an early warning system for potential vaccine-related complications that were not picked up in initial clinical trials used to gain FDA approval, but it was never intended to be a means of following the rates of these complications in a longitudinal fashion. Even if it had been, the ease with which the rate of entry of various complications can be influenced by media hype and activists, as well as the indiscriminate use of the database by litigants, long ago destroyed any usefulness that VAERS might have had for such a purpose.

Indeed, it's even worse than described. The authors themselves recognize that they very well may have underestimated the effect of litigation-related VAERS reports:

Our results are probably conservative. Discussions with VAERS staff at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about reports that are generated from the VICP indicate that we may have missed some litigation-related cases because our code identified only a subset of these cases (John Iskander, personal communication, August 6, 2004). We tested code to identify VICP cases but were unable to find a way to identify them. Underascertainment of cases that are related to litigation, however, only strengthens our point. The influence of the litigation process on longitudinal analyses is a serious matter and emphasizes the importance of interpreting VAERS data cautiously.

In other words, the distorting effect of litigation-related cases on reports to the VAERS database is almost certainly worse than this first study suggests. I'm betting that it would be even worse still if the authors had been able to analyze the complete data sets from the years 2004 and 2005, given the firestorm that erupted last year due to the publication of David Kirby's much hyped conspiracy-mongering "expose" Evidence of Harm and the thoroughly dishonest scaremongering scandal piece by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. published last summer. Perhaps the authors of this study will update their analysis when VAERS data for 2004 and 2005 become available. I might be going out on a limb here (not really), but I'd predict a huge jump in litigation-related VAERS entries for cases alleging that that vaccines caused autism in the year 2005. I'm also hoping that the authors manage to ovecome the difficulties they encountered and figure out a way to crossreference their data from the VAERS database with the list of litigants going before the VCIP. I predict that the results of such a study would be most illuminating. However, this is a study that, because of HIPAA regulations, will most likely never be done because it would probably require doing what Mark and David Geier once tried to do: Merging data sets in such a way that could risk patient confidentiality.

In the meantime, whenever someone tells you that the VAERS database shows that cases of autism related to vaccines have been rising, just remember two things: (1) garbage in=garbage out; and (2) the VAERS database, sadly, has evolved into a trial lawyer's best friend.

Just ask Mark and David Geier.

http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2006/02/how-vaccine-litigation-distorts.html

[depakid]

48. Welp, that's what peer review is for

and it seems to me that the Institute of Medicine has reviewed the matter extensively, and finds the potential connection plausible. Maybe that's why the Greier's research gets published....:think:

Thimerosal and autism? A plausible hypothesis that should not be dismissed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15082108&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum

[beam me up scottie]

49. That's all you've got? Name calling?

Color me surprised.

[trotsky]

54. KILLER info, bmus.

That should put to rest any conclusions drawn from VAERS. The gov't tried to do the anti-vaccine brigade a favor, and it ends up getting abused to the point of being useless.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Thanks! I love the part about the guy who reported he was turned into Hulk

Indeed, James Laidler once tested the system by submitting a report that the influenza virus had turned him into The Incredible Hulk. The report was accepted and duly entered into the database. This report was so out of the ordinary that a representative actually contacted him and, amazingly, asked his permission to remove the report from the database (proving that it's not easy being green). If Laidler had not given it, the report of an adverse reaction in which the flu vaccine turned a man into a huge, immensely powerful green monster would still be in VAERS.

[trotsky]

55. As has been so expertly pointed out,

using the VAERS database to come to any sort of conclusion is impossibly flawed. I'm afraid this "study" does absolutely nothing to support the anti-vaccine position.

When the crusaders can explain why autism rates continued to increase in Canada and Denmark AFTER thimerosal was completely banned, they might just have a case.

'Til then, this does nothing but put children at real risk of catching harmful and sometimes fatal diseases.

[philb]

59. The mechanisms by which vaccines cause autism have been documented

in the medical literature, by hundreds of peer-reviewed medical studies. And there are many thousands of cases of recovery-
most who do the proper treatment(metals detox/nutritional support) by clinics such as the Pfieffer Clinic in Illinois,

and the Autism Treatment Clinic in Baton Rouge, and similar throughout the country- because it usually works.

The treatment that is used by these clinics is that supported by most of the main autism parent organizations and non-profits
that deal with such conditions, like the Autism Research Institute.

(7) A.S. Holmes, M.F. Blaxill and B.E. Haley, Reduced Levels of Mercury in First Baby Haircuts of Autistic Children; International Journal of Toxicology, 2003; www.safeminds.org/

(8) Andrew Hall Cutler, PhD, PE; Amalgam Illness:Diagnosis and Treatment; 1996 , www.noamalgam.com/

(9) Autism Treatment Center, Baton Rouge, La, Experience from Treating 300 Mercury Toxic Autism Patients, http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm#wethink

(12) Metal Metabolism and Autism: Disablement of Metallothionein Proteins
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/metal-metabolism.htm

((14) Walsh, WJ, Health Research Institute, Autism and Metal Metabolism,www.hriptc.org/autism.htm , Oct 20, 2000; & Walsh WJ, Pfeiffer Treatment Center, Metal Metabolism and Human Functioning, 2000, http://www.hriptc.org/metal_metabolism.html ;
& Metal-Metabolism and Autism: Defective Functioning of Metallothionein Protein, Amy Holmes, MD; http://www.healing-arts.org/children/metal-metabolism.htm

[bloom]

60. The link/article I posted was sent out by the Autism Society

http://www.autism-society.org

Which is quite a reputable organization. Around for 40 years.

I don't know who these people think they are that they think they know so much more than the Autism Society people.


It would be nice if they would stop mucking up the threads with their Quacky nonsense. If I wanted to read that crap I know where to find it.


And like RedOnce mentioned:

These studies are what are recognized by ->

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is the peer-reviewed quarterly journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), a non-partisan professional association founded in 1943.

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. - A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943

-----

P.S. I've put all of the Quackwatch nuts on ignore because I am tired their nonsense. They obviously live on a different planet than the rest of us.

[Orrex]

65. If you're ignoring this message, then it really makes no difference

You've proven yourself again and again wholly impervious to evidence and rational argument. Here's what I propose--go ahead and rip out all of your amalgam fillings, undergo whatever version of nonsensical chelation therapy that you think will cure what ails you, and by all means use your best judgment, such as it is, regarding future vaccinations of yourself and anyone in your care.

Evolution is not kind to fools; I am confident that in just a few generations the vaccine nay-sayers will have weeded themselves out.

Best of luck to you.

[Orrex]

63. That's a flat lie--the "mechanisms" are poorly understood

If you wish to maintain your lie that Factor X causes autism, then you should realize that you're doing a great disservice to people who suffer from autism or whose loved ones suffer from autism, and also to everyone whom a vaccine would otherwise have protected from disease. The causes (not cause) of autism are subtle and as yet poorly understood. Your endless repetitive and self-referential citations do not change this.

The bullshit that you spew in this forum is truly overwhelming. Post whatever the hell you like from this point on--I'm done with you and your nonsense. Others have advised me not to waste my time on you, and I see now that I should have heeded that advice.

You're so far removed from reality and from any understanding of empirical science that I have no confidence that you can ever be brought to rational thought.

[philb]

69. actually the mechanisms are documented in the peer-reviewed studies that

I cited, and have been likewise by lots of credential, prestegious researchers as well, whom I've also cited.
http://www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
Pfieffer Clinic, Dr. W.J. Walsh, Dr. Amy Holmes, Dr. C. Cave, autism treatment clinics, Dr. Blaylock, ARI, etc. etc.

If you don't want to read my review of the studies that document the mechanisms, thats up to you, I can't make you.
You can find abstracts of the articles cited, and the articles themselves on medline, www.nlm.nih.gov/

Actually I've taught Science and Logic at universities, and was valedictorian in high school and Summa Cum Laude in college,
and received an award from the graduate faculty as the best applied researcher, so unless I've had an extreme relapse there shouldn't be any question about my logical ability. I'll be glad to match mine against yours in the IQ test available on the web,
which contains a bit of logic I believe. I think we could figure out a way to have it refereed.

So, stick to facts, I never make a statement that I can't support by peer-reviewed medical studies. And a lot of clinical case
evidence that I've also posted. If you disagree with some of the peer-reviewed documentation, please make your point so we can see
where the truth lies. Don't just continuously make statements with no support provided.

[Feron]

105. There is no cure for autism

You can chelate till the cows come home ,but the autism isn't going away. Frankly these quacks that claim to cure autism are nothing more than scam artists and child abusers.

One experience at a clinic that claims to "cure" autism:
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2795

[RedOnce]

75. Good post bloom! Controversial...so what. It Just means that you

have two news worthy stories to cover, one is the study and the other the controversy. You might want to remind some of your critics that you didn't do the study, you're just reporting it.

[beam me up scottie]

76. Right and by posting bogus info, YOU aren't RESPONSIBLE

for any harm that might come to people who believe them.

[RedOnce]

77. Let Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons know...

how you feel: http://www.jpands.org/ [e-mail]

They published it before bloom did!

NOTE: The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is the peer-reviewed quarterly journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), a non-partisan professional association founded in 1943.

[beam me up scottie]

78. Thanks. I'll have Doc do it.

Or Warpy.

Any medical professional in this forum will do, actually.

Did I miss anyone?

[RedOnce]

79. Enjoy.

[bloom]

80. Thanks

It's really just so much more pleasant to read the posts that aren't by people who live and die by Quackwatch. AFAIC - they are just disruptors. There is a reason why I post here instead of somewhere like Freeperland.

But thank you for reminding them. :hi:

[RedOnce]

81. You're welcome.

[RedOnce]

82. National Autism Association Supports Congressional Action...

National Autism Association Supports Congressional Action to Investigate Vaccine/Autism Link; CDC Considered Poor Choice to Conduct Thimerosal Research

PRNewswire - March 20, 2006

The National Autism Association (NAA) today expressed support for a Congressional request that the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) conduct research on the connection between vaccines containing mercury and the epidemic of neurological disorders plaguing children in the U.S. In a letter to NIEHS director David Schwartz, MD, eight Congressional and Senate leaders stated that any relevant studies conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) could be viewed with "much skepticism."

The letter to NIEHS was released to the public following a study by Mark Geier, MD and David Geier published earlier this month in the peer-reviewed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons showing that reduced exposure to mercury through pediatric vaccines in recent years corresponds with decreased rates of neurodevelopmental disorders including autism.

Despite this most recent study further confirming the devastating effects of vaccines containing thimerosal (mercury), last month the CDC re-intensified mercury exposure by injection, recommending flu shots for children two through five years of age. In 2004, as most pediatric shots became available without thimerosal, the CDC recommended the influenza vaccine for pregnant women and infants aged six through 23 months. Most flu vaccines contain 12.5 to 25 micrograms of mercury, considered safe by the Environmental Protection Agency for adults weighing between 275 and 550 pounds.

"The CDC has ensured an annual bolus dose of mercury for children from womb to kindergarten," said NAA board chair Claire Bothwell. "Deliberately increasing exposure to a known neurotoxin calls this agency's motives into question. The NIEHS is a much preferable choice for conducting the relevant studies. Not only is the CDC unable to objectively research injuries to children from mercury-containing vaccines, they themselves should be the subject of an investigation for dereliction of responsibility in allowing an entire generation of American children to be grossly overexposed to mercury by injection. Every parent in this country should be outraged at this medical and moral travesty."

http://www.medadnews.com/News/Index.cfm?articleid=324049

[bloom]

96. "safe... for adults weighing between 275 and 550 pounds"

So if you're not obese - you're not safe. (I don't know how tall a person would have to be to not be in the obese range for that weight - but it's seems like it would have to be pretty tall). IOW - there are no safe limits for pregnant women and children.


From what I had researched before - it was noted that it costs $4. a dose to not have Thimerosal in a vaccine. Not much.

[philb]

106. Two autism cases tested for autoimmunity to thimerosal were positive

Two case reports from patients referred for MELISA® testing by Dr. Jan Croonenberghs, Centre for Child and Adulthood Psychiatry, University of Antwerpen, Belgium.

Summary of findings :

The results of MELISA® testing indicate allergy to thimerosal, methyl mercury and aluminium in the autistic children below. Since the children were exposed to many mercury and aluminium-containing vaccines and exhibited post-vaccination side-effects, it is plausible that they have been sensitized to mercury through vaccinations. The clinical relevance of these findings for the development of autistic behavior remains to be seen.
http://www.melisa.org/autism.php

[RedOnce]

107. See supporting Medline studies:

A generalized reaction to thimerosal from an influenza vaccine.

2005 Jan;94(1):90-4.
Lee-Wong M, Resnick D, Chong K.

Division of Clinical Immunology and Allergy, Department of Internal Medicine, Beth Israel Medical Center, New York, New York 10003, USA.

BACKGROUND: Thimerosal is a preservative commonly used in ophthalmic solutions, otic drops, and vaccines because of its bactericidal property. OBJECTIVE: To report a case of a generalized reaction to thimerosal in a patient who received an influenza vaccine. METHODS: We describe a patient who developed a generalized maculopapular eruption after receiving a thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine. Patch testing was performed to determine if there was an allergy to thimerosal. RESULTS: Patch testing confirmed a T-cell-mediated sensitivity to thimerosal. CONCLUSIONS: Physicians need to be aware that thimerosal is found in many products, including vaccinations. Clinicians should also be aware that allergic reactions occur with exposure to thimerosal even in vaccines. To our knowledge, this is the first case report in the literature of a generalized reaction to thimerosalfrom an influenza vaccine.

Publication Types:
Case Reports

PMID: 15702823

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15702823&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Contact sensitization in 1094 children undergoing patch testing over a 7-year period.

2005 Jan-Feb;22(1):1-5.
Seidenari S, Giusti F, Pepe P, Mantovani L.

Department of Dermatology, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Italy. [e-mail]

Contact sensitization in children is frequent. However, because exposure to sensitizing agents varies rapidly, it is of utmost importance to perform a periodic evaluation of patch test results. Our purpose was to compare our data on contact sensitization in children during the past 7 years to our previous 1988-1994 findings, in order to identify emerging allergens and update our pediatric series. From 1995 to 2001, 1094 consecutive children were examined. Of these, 997 patients were patch tested with our pediatric series, which includes 30 allergens, whereas 97 underwent patch testing with 46 allergens. A total of 570 children proved allergic (52.1%). The highest sensitization rate was observed in children under 3 years of age. No differences between atopic dermatitis patients and nonatopic ones were observed in the sensitization rate. Neomycin, nickel, wool alcohols, thimerosal, and ammoniated mercury gave most of the positive responses. With respect to 1988-1995 data, allergy to substances such as neomycin, nickel, wool alcohols, thimerosal, ammoniated mercury, propolis, potassium dichromate, and thiuram mix proved more frequent. In conclusion, as sensitization rates to different allergens show great variations over time, periodic evaluations of patch test results in children is necessary in order to update the test trays.

PMID: 15660887

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15660887&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Frequency of contact allergy in German children and adolescents patch tested between 1995 and 2002: results from the Information Network of Departments of Dermatology and the German Contact Dermatitis Research Group.

2004 Sep;51(3):111-7.
Heine G, Schnuch A, Uter W, Worm M.

Klinik fur Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Campus Charite-Mitte, Universitatsmedizin, Berlin, Germany.

Allergic contact dermatitis (ACD) affects approximately 7% of the general population. To evaluate the frequency of ACD in children, we analysed patch test results collected by the Information Network of Departments of Dermatology between 1995 and 2002. Data of 285 children (6-12 year) and 2175 adolescent patients (13-18 year) were analysed to determine the frequency of sensitization to the 30 most common contact allergens, adjusting for age and sex. As control group, we defined adult patients (60-66 year, n = 7904). The top allergens in children were thimerosal, gentamicin sulphate, nickel-II-sulphate, ammoniated mercury, cobalt-II-chloride, fragrance mix, bufexamac, Compositae mix, propylene glycol and turpentine. The overall proportion of sensitized patients according to the patch test results was 52.6% in the children group compared to 49.7% in the adolescent group. These findings were similar in the adult group at 52.2%. The detailed analysis regarding sex, occupation, atopy, site of eczema and age showed distinct patterns in each group indicating age-specific exposures. Atopy-related diseases were more common in children compared to adults. On the basis of the data of this study, the relationship between atopy and the risk of development of ACD, at least in children, needs further investigation.

PMID: 15479199

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15479199&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Contact dermatitis to metals.

2004;17(4):321-7.
Garner LA.

Department of Dermatology, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, USA. [e-mail]

Metals are in close contact with skin and mucous membranes on a repeated, if not constant, basis. Nickel and mercury, well-recognized causes of contact dermatitis; gold and palladium, recently gaining acceptance as patch test allergens on standard screening trays; and cobalt are reviewed in this article. Sensitization to nickel, the most frequently identified allergen on patch testing, is associated with ear piercing. Contact with this potential allergen is ubiquitous. Mercury may be encountered as organic mercury in thimerosal, used as an antiseptic and a preservative in topical medications and vaccines, and metallic mercury found in dental amalgam and thermometers. Both forms may cause contact dermatitis. Gold, recognized as a frequent sensitizer, has been implicated in some cases of eyelid, patchy diffuse and oral lichenoid dermatitis. Cobalt allergy, found frequently in patients who are nickel allergic, also has been associated with ear piercing. Palladium sensitivity is often associated with nickel allergy. However, the incidence of clinical relevance is yet to be established.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 15327477

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15327477&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Oral lichenoid lesions (OLL) and mercury in amalgam fillings.

2003 Feb;48(2):74-9.
Wong L, Freeman S.

Skin and Cancer Foundation, Darlinghurst NSW, Australia.

84 patients with oral lichenoid lesions (OLL) were seen in the contact dermatitis clinic. All these patients had reticulate, lacy, plaque-like or erosive lichenoid changes adjacent to amalgam fillings. Patch testing to metallic mercury, 0.1% thimerosal, 1% ammoniated mercury, 0.1% mercuric chloride, and in some cases 0.05% phenylmercuric nitrate and amalgam discs was undertaken. 33 (39%) patients had positive patch test findings. 30/33 patch test positive patients had replacement of their amalgam fillings, with 28 (87%) patients experiencing improvement of symptoms and signs within 3 months. This confirms that mercury allergy is a factor in the pathogenesis of OLL in some cases. In cases where patch test negative patients improve with amalgam replacement, mercury may be acting as an irritant in the pathogenesis of OLL.

PMID: 12694209

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12694209&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum

[trotsky]

108. What is this showing, other than that some people are allergic?

Seems to me these studies all just further show that yes indeed, some people are allergic to mercury, mercury products, or other types of metals. I am not aware of anyone having denied that.

But just as some people are allergic to penicillin, and most are not, that doesn't mean we stop using penicillin.

[RedOnce]

109. Medline studies summary:

1) Thimerosal is one of the Top 10 allergens in children.

2) Contact sensitization in children is frequent, with the highest sensitization rate observed in children under 3 years of age.

3) Both organic mercury as in thimerosal and metallic mercury found in dental amalgam cause allergic reactions.

4) Clinicians should be aware that allergic reactions occur with exposure to thimerosal even in vaccines.

5) A group of patch test positive patients with oral lichenoid lesions had replacement of their amalgam fillings with 87% experiencing improvement of symptoms and signs within 3 months.

To use your wording; "...yes indeed, some people are allergic to mercury..."

Well, maybe we shouldn't be giving mercury to people are allergic to it. We don't give penicillin to people who are allergic to penicillin!

[trotsky]

110. Hey, guess what? We don't.

A mercury allergy makes itself known with a reaction at the injection site. If you've ever gotten a flu shot (about the only thing that still has thimerosal anymore), they ask you if you're allergic.

Geebus, the anti-vax crowd makes it sound like docs just go around jabbing everyone with a gallon of mercury.

[RedOnce]

111. So, people with a mercury allergy don't have dental amalgam? And...

apparently you have to get at least one thimerosal shot to even know how to answer the allergy question. Probably not a great idea if you happen to be 2 years old at the time.

Btw,I'm not part of the "anti-vax crowd".

[RedOnce]

83. Documents Surface Showing CDC's Refusal to Reduce Mercury

Documents Surface Showing CDC's Refusal to Reduce Mercury Exposure Through Routine Shots in 1999, Says NAA

National Autism Association Calls for Senate Investigation of CDC Malfeasance in Extending Use of Mercury in Kids' Vaccines

PRNewswire - March 02, 2006

The National Autism Association (NAA) today joined other advocacy organizations in calling for Senate investigations of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) regarding its failure to remove thimerosal (mercury) from pediatric vaccines when given the opportunity in 1999. This comes following a study released this week showing reduced autism diagnoses coincide with the reduction of mercury-containing vaccines given to children.

In July of 1999, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) and American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued a joint statement advising mercury be removed from childhood vaccines "as soon as possible." Newly uncovered documents reveal that just weeks after the PHS/AAP recommendation, vaccine maker Smith Kline Beecham (now GlaxoSmithKline) wrote to the CDC suggesting a significant reduction of mercury exposure to children through use of the thimerosal-free DTaP vaccine, Infanrix, which could meet the U.S. demand at least until mid- 2000. The CDC's refusal to accept this offer has left many in the autism community outraged.

"Hundreds of thousands of children were denied access to thimerosal-free shots because of the CDC's inexplicable decision to leave the mercury in," stated NAA President Wendy Fournier. "This dereliction of responsibility to our children's health is unacceptable. Congress must ensure this agency is held accountable for its role in the autism epidemic."

Joining the call for Senate hearings regarding CDC's handling of the issue, environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. stated in an article this week, "It's time for the CDC to come clean with the American public. Its tactics of deception and obfuscation are jeopardizing the credibility of the entire vaccine program, and therefore posing an enormous danger to public health."

http://www.pharmalive.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=319925&categoryid=10#

[bloom]

97. "It's time for the CDC to come clean..."

So many decisions to protect industry are made by "Cost Benefit Analysis" - I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't what happened here. People who think that it's to the public's "benefit" to be vaccinated - who don't think that $4 a dose is worth the money to keep some people from suffering from adverse affects.

[trotsky]

98. $4 a dose times how many million doses

and pretty soon you're looking at real money.

Seriously though, if the choice you face is:

1) Vaccinating the largest number of people, in particular the eldery and immune-compromised

or

2) Vaccinating far fewer people for lack of funds, just to eliminate a preservative that still hasn't been shown to cause any harm in non-allergic persons.

What do you do? There are few easy choices in life.

[RedOnce]

99. I'd spend a little less on Depleted Uranium.

[trotsky]

102. Yeah, and if I were dictator things would be different, too. n/t

[Celebration]

100. this choice seemed easy enough

Kind of like buying inferior body armor for our troops. So what do we do? Supply everyone with inferior body armor so all will be protected, or supplying only the foot soldiers with the better armor, protecting far fewer troops. Keep in mind, most of our troops aren't even shot. What a waste.

[trotsky]

101. No, it's not "kind of like" that.

A soldier with inferior body armor is clearly at greater risk of injury in combat.

A vaccine with thimerosal has yet to be shown to be more dangerous than one without, except in the case of rare allergy.

No, our government doesn't put as much money into vaccination programs as it should. But there are a LOT of things I don't think the government funds adequately. We don't have enough money to make this a perfect solution for everyone, but I think the risk of a flu epidemic due to inadequate vaccination is demonstrably more serious than the risk thimerosal poses.

[HuckleB]

103. Other sources on this:

Autism Rates Drop After Mercury Removed From Childhood Vaccines:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=38784

American lawmakers initiate mercury probe for vaccines:
http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com/news/ng.asp?n=66601-cdc-vaccines-thimerosal-world-health-organisation-merck

Thimerosal linked to immune system ills:
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=AUTISM-03-22-06

First evidence that dendritic cells show unprecedented sensitivity to thimerosal:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=16816

[RedOnce]

104. Interesting Information - using your last link:

First the disclaimer: "Our findings do not directly implicate thimerosal as a single causative agent for triggering neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism," Pessah said.

First evidence that dendritic cells show unprecedented sensitivity to thimerosal

Medical Studies/Trials
Published: Wednesday, 22-Mar-2006

"This is the first time that thimerosal has been shown to selectively alter the normal functions of dendritic cells," said Isaac Pessah, a toxicologist with the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, director of the Children's Center for Environmental Health and Disease Prevention and senior author of the study. "Dendritic cells play pivotal roles in overcoming viral and bacterial invaders by coordinating the immune system's overall combat response." One dendritic cell can activate as many as 300 T-cells - white blood cells that help find and kill external agents that attack the immune system - making them the most effective immune system activators. The study shows how intricate connections between calcium channels in dendritic cells change when exposed to thimerosal.

"The slightest fluctuation in how calcium channels 'communicate' can alter the growth, maturation and activation of dendritic cells," explained Pessah. "Thimerosal dramatically alters how two key calcium channels, code-named RyR1 and IP3R1, found in dendritic cells function as a team by 'garbling' the normal signaling system between them."

When thimerosal, at a concentration as low as 20 parts per billion, alters the fidelity of normal calcium signals, dendritic cells show abnormal secretion of IL-6 cytokine - a potent chemical signal that initiates inflammatory responses. Higher concentrations - 200 parts per billion - causes programmed death of dendritic cells, preventing them from maturing and doing their primary job of activating T-cells. Without proper feedback to guide its response, a normal dendritic cell can quickly become "a rogue, producing misinformation that could activate aberrant and harmful immune responses," Pessah explained. "Even one rogue dendritic cell can activate many inappropriate immune responses."

The UC Davis study indicates that in addition to being a direct neurotoxicant, thimerosal may also be an immunotoxicant, leaving the immune system vulnerable to microbes and other external influences.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=16816

WOW!

[philb]

119. lots of studies show extreme toxicity of thimerosal at very low exposures

http://www.flcv.com/kidshg.html

And thousands of kids have recovered from autism,ADHD, learning disabilities, developmental conditions after
detox at clinics treating such kids

for example Pfieffer Clinic and www.flcv.com/autismc.html

[RedOnce]

112. Interesting supporting Medline studies:

Immunological findings in autism.

2005;71:317-41.
Cohly HH, Panja A.

Department of Biology, Jackson State University, Mississippi 39217, USA.

The immunopathogenesis of autism is presented schematically in Fig. 1. Two main immune dysfunctions in autism are immune regulation involving pro-inflammatory cytokines and autoimmunity. Mercury and an infectious agent like the measles virus are currently two main candidate environmental triggers for immune dysfunction in autism. Genetically immune dysfunction in autism involves the MHC region, as this is an immunologic gene cluster whose gene products are Class I, II, and III molecules. Class I and II molecules are associated with antigen presentation. The antigen in virus infection initiated by the virus particle itself while the cytokine production and inflammatory mediators are due to the response to the putative antigen in question. The cell-mediated immunity is impaired as evidenced by low numbers of CD4 cells and a concomitant T-cell polarity with an imbalance of Th1/Th2 subsets toward Th2. Impaired humoral immunity on the other hand is evidenced by decreased IgA causing poor gut protection. Studies showing elevated brain specific antibodies in autism support an autoimmune mechanism. Viruses may initiate the process but the subsequent activation of cytokines is the damaging factor associated with autism. Virus specific antibodies associated with measles virus have been demonstrated in autistic subjects. Environmental exposure to mercury is believed to harm human health possibly through modulation of immune homeostasis. A mercury link with the immune system has been postulated due to the involvement of postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a preservative added in the MMR vaccines. The occupational hazard exposure to mercury causes edema in astrocytes and, at the molecular level, the CD95/Fas apoptotic signaling pathway is disrupted by Hg2+. Inflammatory mediators in autism usually involve activation of astrocytes and microglial cells. Proinflammatory chemokines (MCP-1 and TARC), and an anti-inflammatory and modulatory cytokine, TGF-beta1, are consistently elevated in autistic brains. In measles virus infection, it has been postulated that there is immune suppression by inhibiting T-cell proliferation and maturation and downregulation MHC class II expression. Cytokine alteration of TNF-alpha is increased in autistic populations. Toll-like-receptors are also involved in autistic development. High NO levels are associated with autism. Maternal antibodies may trigger autism as a mechanism of autoimmunity. MMR vaccination may increase risk for autism via an autoimmune mechanism in autism. MMR antibodies are significantly higher in autistic children as compared to normal children, supporting a role of MMR in autism. Autoantibodies (IgG isotype) to neuron-axon filament protein (NAFP) and glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) are significantly increased in autistic patients (Singh et al., 1997). Increase in Th2 may explain the increased autoimmunity, such as the findings of antibodies to MBP and neuronal axonal filaments in the brain. There is further evidence that there are other participants in the autoimmune phenomenon. (Kozlovskaia et al., 2000). The possibility of its involvement in autism cannot be ruled out. Further investigations at immunological, cellular, molecular, and genetic levels will allow researchers to continue to unravel the immunopathogenic mechanisms' associated with autistic processes in the developing brain. This may open up new avenues for prevention and/or cure of this devastating neurodevelopmental disorder.

PMID: 16512356

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16512356&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

Mercury exposure, malaria, and serum antinuclear/antinucleolar antibodies in Amazon populations in Brazil: a cross-sectional study.

2004 Nov 2;3(1):11.
Silva IA, Nyland JF, Gorman A, Perisse A, Ventura AM, Santos EC, Souza JM, Burek CL, Rose NR, Silbergeld EK.

The Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health, 615 N, Wolfe Street, Room E6642, Baltimore, Maryland 21201, USA. [e-mail]

BACKGROUND: Mercury is an immunotoxic metal that induces autoimmune disease in rodents. Highly susceptible mouse strains such as SJL/N, A.SW, B10.S (H-2s) develop multiple autoimmune manifestations after exposure to inorganic mercury, including lymphoproliferation, elevated levels of autoantibodies, overproduction of IgG and IgE, and circulating immune complexes in kidney and vasculature. A few studies have examined relationships between mercury exposures and adverse immunological reactions in humans, but there is little evidence of mercury-associated autoimmunity in humans. METHODS: To test the immunotoxic effects of mercury in humans, we studied communities in Amazonian Brazil with well-characterized exposures to mercury. Information was collected on diet, mercury exposures, demographic data, and medical history. Antinuclear and antinucleolar autoantibodies (ANA and ANoA) were measured by indirect immunofluorescence. Anti-fibrillarin autoantibodies (AFA) were measured by immunoblotting. RESULTS: In a gold mining site, there was a high prevalence of ANA and ANoA: 40.8% with detectable ANoA at > or =1:10 serum dilution, and 54.1% with detectable ANA (of which 15% had also detectable ANoA). In a riverine town, where the population is exposed to methylmercury by fish consumption, both prevalence and levels of autoantibodies were lower: 18% with detectable ANoA and 10.7% with detectable ANA. In a reference site with lower mercury exposures, both prevalence and levels of autoantibodies were much lower: only 2.0% detectable ANoA, and only 7.1% with detectable ANA. In the gold mining population, we also examined serum for AFA in those subjects with detectable ANoA (> or =1:10). There was no evidence for mercury induction of this autoantibody. CONCLUSIONS: This is the first study to report immunologic changes, indicative of autoimmune dysfunction in persons exposed to mercury, which may also reflect interactions with infectious disease and other factors.

PMID: 15522122

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15522122&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

[trotsky]

113. First study is completely and utterly FALSE.

A mercury link with the immune system has been postulated due to the involvement of postnatal exposure to thimerosal, a preservative added in the MMR vaccines.

The MMR vaccine does not, and never did contain thimerosal. Ever.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-thimerosal.htm#11

Hard to trust the study when they don't even get a basic fact right.

Second study, like many that alarmists use to attack thimerosal, equates methylmercury exposure with elemental and/or ethylmercury. Common error.

[RedOnce]

114. Yes, you are right. It is "hard to trust the study...

when they don't even get a basic fact right." Thank you for pointing this out. I attempted to track down the full study text without success. I was hoping to find out what the authors meant. The fact that a 2005 text isn't available online even for a price is a little bit suspicious.

Regarding the second study:
This study is about mercury exposure. Mercury in any form is toxic. The authors selected this method "To test the immunotoxic effects of mercury in humans". Methylmercury is the form of mercury that is most easily bioaccumulated in organisms. This and the availability of a "population exposed to methylmercury by fish consumption" simply makes it easier to study "the immunotoxic effects of mercury in humans".

The study conclusions were interesting: they report "immunologic changes, indicative of autoimmune dysfunction in persons exposed to mercury".

Autoimmune dysfunction is suspected in Autism.

The UC Davis study also sites immunologic changes "in addition to being a direct neurotoxicant, thimerosal may also be an immunotoxicant, leaving the immune system vulnerable to microbes and other external influences".

So, we have people with immunologic changes due to exposure to methylmercury and mice with immunologic changes due to thimerosal exposure.

Make of it what you will. It seems a bit suspicious to me.

[philb]

115. Thimerosal has ethylmercury; similar in toxicity to methyl mercury

The adverse effects from MMR are mainly from exposure to live viruses in triple vaccines- measles especially, as documented
by medical study and clinical experience, and CDC records.

(but also note that some do get thimerosal exposure from vaccines that don't need and are made without thimerosal, because thimerosal is commonly used to prevent cross-contamination in vaccines kept in multiple use vials- due to less cost of multiple use vials although the thimerosal is used due to multiple use over time)

But elemental mercury vapor causes developmental effects at lower levels of exposure than the other forms
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr13.html

and because of the dangerous nature of elemental mercury vapor, the Gov't health standards are lower(more strict)
than for the other forms. OSHA and EPA and ATSDR

Vaccines have caused adverse healt effects including deaths, autism, ADHD, learning disabilities,ezcema, and other develomental conditions to millions of kids, as documented by CDC, studies, and DAMS
http://www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html

[beam me up scottie]

123. As soon as you get a degree in medicine let us know.

'Cuz right now, you're just a poser with an agenda.

[trotsky]

124. But not at all similar in how it sticks around the body.

That's why it is completely dishonest to compare the two. In other words, it fits right in with your tactics.