New UK Campaign: “Homeopathy: There’s nothing in it”

[HuckleB]

http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/new-uk-campaign-homeopathy-theres-nothing-in-it/

"A few weeks ago I blogged about some very public criticism of pharmacy practice in the United Kingdom. I noted that pharmacies were being publicly criticized for selling homeopathy, and this was causing a public relations disaster for Boots, one of the UK’s leading pharmacy chains, and a proud vendor of homeopathy. The mockery of Boots has continued. And there’s now a new public campaign to raise awareness of the fact that homeopathy is an elaborate placebo system, and has no place in pharmacies.

Cleverly (but somewhat confusingly) called “10:23″ (Remember what that number means?) the campaign has the following goals:

The 10:23 campaign aims to raise awareness of the reality of homeopathy – how it can be proven not to work, how it can be shown to be impossible, and why it’s important to give patients the right information to allow them to make an informed decision on their healthcare.

The campaign starts in a few weeks – and they’ve already posted their open letter to Boots - here’s an excerpt:

We call upon Boots to withdraw all homeopathic products from your shelves. You should not be involved in the sale of ineffective products, because your customers trust you to do what is right for their health. Surely you agree that your commitment to excellent patient care is better served by supplying only those products whose claims can be substantiated by rigorous scientific research? Or do you really believe that Boots should be in the business of selling placebos to the sick and the injured?

..."

------------------------------------------------

More: Boots boss admits they sell homeopathic remedies 'because they're popular, not because they work' ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230925/Boots-sells-homeopathic-remedies-theyre-popular-work.html

And the actual campaign site link: http://www.1023.org.uk/

------------------------------------------------


It's good to see people start to stand up and speak out about such quackery.

:applause:

[DesertFlower]

1. i heard that the royal family

are treated by homeopaths.

[HuckleB]

3. Yup.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100005506/the-royal-familys-support-for-quackery-is-a-national-joke/

[DesertFlower]

7. they seem to be healthy. nt

[HuckleB]

14. I haven't seen in a physician for anything but a check up in years, and I seem to be healthy, too.

:)

[Posteritatis]

18. Modern royalty are usually a wee bit off the baseline healthwise

It's been the rule in that particular family for some time. I don't think it's because they're being given water that claims to be not-water in the last couple of years.

[FLAprogressive]

2. This sums it up:

[HuckleB]

5. LOL!

Nice.

[Salviati]

21. Did you hear about the homeopathic "doctor" who forgot to take their "medicine" ?

They died of an overdose...

[HuckleB]

37. Badda BING! Badda BUM! LOL! (nt)

[Warpy]

4. "There's nothing in it" is a great slogan

because there is really nothing in it, literally and figuratively.

If people want to demonstrate the effectiveness of "memory water," let them try to live on air that contains the memory of food, wear air that contains the memory of clothing, and drive air that contains the memory of a car.

The only thing homeopathy has going for it is that it's not harmful in any way except to the sucker's wallet.

[Posteritatis]

8. I dunno - there's hydrogen and oxygen in homeopathic remedies.

Of course, I suppose if the water's too pure someone taking it would die of an overdose anyway.

And I'd say it's still harmful, as it encourages people to avoid getting real treatment for health issues.

[Warpy]

24. Stupidity kills, period.

Homeopathy isn't directly fatal. Stupidity might be.

[Walk away]

6. They even sell homeopathic remedies for dogs and cats....

The pets can't be duped into purchasing but the owners.....

[BlueJazz]

9. I tried Homeopathy once and it worked great. I had a Horrible Cold...

...took some stuff a woman said was a homeopathy cure ...and Eureka!! ...6 days later I felt fine.

[FLAprogressive]

10. placebo effect.

[HuckleB]

16. I'm presuming that you're being sarcastic.

[BlueJazz]

20. Oh Yes....I've got a degree in Physics and I remember the first time I heard about the Homeopathic ....

...Movement. I think I said something like.."You gotta be fucking kidding" :)

[DesertFlower]

11. when my cat was about 8 months old he kept

vomiting. i tried all different kinds of food. it wouldn't stop. i called the breeder who told me what homeopathic remedy and strength i should give him. within 1 day the vomiting stopped.


my dermatologist who is very well known in the scottsdale/paradise valley area now gives a little jar of arnica cream to use after getting certain procedures, i.e., juvederm.

i had a car accident. i had air bag burns on my chest and arm. my doc gave me arnica orally and arnica cream to put on the burns. within a few days the burns healed.

[Walk away]

13. Sometimes people and animals just get better. Even a stopped clock..

is right twice a day.

[HuckleB]

15. My air bag burns healed in a few days with just normal hygiene.

What "homeopathic remedy" did you give your dog?

[DesertFlower]

26. it was my cat . the remedy was

ipecac.

i have a small homeopathic medicine box with 55 remedies.

[HuckleB]

27. And what was the "strength?"

[DesertFlower]

30. i don't remember. it was 8 years ago.

[HuckleB]

31. Was it liquid or pill form?

[DesertFlower]

32. it was the pills.

[HuckleB]

33. So it's the old "like cures like" routine, even if there's no feasible amount of "like" in the pill.

"If you're vomiting, give a minute amount of an emetic, and that will solve the problem?"

(I though maybe you had actually used a "naturopathic" medication, but...)

Umm.

Umm.

(Checking principles of logic and science.)

Really?

:shrug:

http://www.skepdic.com/refuge/bunk11.html

http://mindblowingdecisions.com/likecureslike.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSKxz1BNU6s

[DesertFlower]

47. if you knew anything about homeopathy,

you would know that "like" is treated with "like". kinda like allergy shots.



that's all i have to say. you started this thread. seems you just like to argue especially when it comes to health topics. next time i see your posts, i'll make sure i don't read them.

[HuckleB]

52. So you have nothing to say.

Since your post is not an actual response to what I posted.

If you were able to discuss this matter, you wouldn't be going to the personal attack.

Run from a challenge to your beliefs! Run from all challenges! Ignore logic! Ignore science! Ignore that which improves the world!

NEVER grow! NEVER learn!

Sorry, but that's not the way to live, IMO.

:eyes:

[trotsky]

19. Do yourself a favor and look up what "homeopathic" means.

Because you clearly don't know.

[DesertFlower]

28. i know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

if you don't want to believe in it then don't, but don't be judgmental of those who think differently than you do.

[trotsky]

41. So I shouldn't be judgmental of racists?

I mean, they just think differently than I do. Same with homophobes and other bigots. Guess the Democratic Party should just fold up the tent and go home if we can't point out where other people are wrong! Sheesh this po-mo shit gets tiresome.

(BTW, the reason for my post challenging you to look up the word was your reference to arnica cream. You do realize that's not a homeopathic product, right?)

[BuddhaGirl]

43. you're equating users of homeopathy with racists?

really? :-(

[trotsky]

44. LOL

Sure. LMAO

[BuddhaGirl]

46. LMAO

whatever.

Typical.

[xchrom]

12. Recommend

[HuckleB]

17. Hello to all the DUers of the homeopathic faith!

Thanks for your unrecommendations! Come again!

:hi:

[FLAprogressive]

22. A lot of DUers believe it's some kind of way to stick it to big pharma when in reality it's a scam.

[tabatha]

34. A lot of big Pharma is a scam.

[FLAprogressive]

35. Never said it wasn't.

[tabatha]

39. Never said you never said it.

It was just a remark.

I have been hurt by big Pharma.

[HuckleB]

36. Please compare and contrast "big pharma" with homeopathy.

Thanks.

On edit, here's a place for you to start: How do we find out about "big pharma" scams, and why do we require published studies from "big pharma" showing effectiveness of the drugs "big pharma sells? (Yeah, we all know the issues with hidden studies, and the many things that need to be changed in terms of regulating pharmaceuticals.) Shouldn't we require the same of homeopathic remedies?

[tabatha]

38. My comment was not a comparison.

I never mentioned homeopathy in my comment.

[HuckleB]

40. The topic of this thread is homeopathy.

If you choose to bash "big pharma" on this thread, then one must presume that you are doing so as a way of distracting from the criticism of homeopathy.

You can cut and run, but I'm not buying your evasion except for what it is.

[tabatha]

45. I have been hurt by big Pharma.

End of story.

[HuckleB]

50. Therefore you can excuse yourself from responsibility for everything you post.

Nope. Sophistry is sophistry is sophistry.

[tosh]

23. LOL!

(It wasn't me. Really! But that was funny.)

[jgraz]

25. Luckily, their unrec's will be diluted in a flood of K&Rs

See what I did there? :D

[HuckleB]

29. Nice!

:applause:

[laconicsax]

42. I'll take any excuse to post this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqOAVCE_Z1c

Homeopathic Accident and Emergency Department

[HuckleB]

49. One of my favorite bits of all time.

[peacetalksforall]

48. Homeopathy is fabulous. Take care of your self through prevention - there

are few products that compare to homoeopathic ones.

Leave the serious pharma prescriptions for acute problems that you didn't or couldn't prevent.

No pharma prescriptions cover prevention.

Be your own best doctor.

Prevention first. But if you didn't act in time or something hits fast - go to the doctor and git pharma'd up.

If western doctors cared about prevention, they wouldn't have to whine about someone else doing it.

If western doctors did do something about prevention, they would probably use the same plant or bark or root or whatever.

If western doctors don't like homoeopahy, what the heck to they say about India(n) and Chinese solutions.

If western doctors rant against homoeopathy, they are ranting against European originators. The practice doesn't come from cannibalistic practices or shamans - it comes from mostly Greeks and German.

Yeah!!!!!!! for Homoeopathy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HuckleB]

51. Drink water.

Homeopathy prevents nothing. Well, perhaps it does prevent thought, though that is just a theory.

[laconicsax]

53. !

:rofl:

[Confusious]

70. Homeopathywas an invention

From the 19th century.

It has nothing to do with the greeks or western medicine today.

Western doctors -> prevention -> sewer systems, cleanliness

Cure the source -> small pox, malaria, measles

P-p-p-please!

Homeopathy is crap.

[SidDithers]

54. Shit and Sugar...

Obligatory poster from The American Institute for the Destruction of Tooth Fairy Science.

:hi:

Sid

[peacetalksforall]

55. It works and it is affordable. If all the naysayers use one line. I can also do it.

But, I will add a few more lines.

Naysayers, keep on running to the doctor and the pharmacist - make the usual pharma companies rich so that they can pay their lobbyists to pay our Congresspeople.

There is a time to go to a doctor of costly medicine - there is a time to help yourself stay healthy and take care of little sneezes and aches before they become 10 day colds, for example. Bringing balance.

Many people change their bodies with sports pills not obtained from their doctor. That it probably OK with the naysayers of h. on this list.

Makes a person wonder if ALL lobbyists have their paid naysayers here at DU.

If yes, it makes DU very important to them.

I assume the same people would scoff at all forms of healing.

Too bad for them. Great for the pharmas! They are using the systems the way it was designed so that some people enjoy great riches.

Homoeopathy was used in U.S. wars. There are books on it. In the naysayers world - our soldiers should have stayed away from it. BUT HOLD ON - there weren't big pharmas then. What's a medic to do?

I am amazed at this thread - so riddled with naysayers. A shining example of intolerance? Or an organized put down of a helpful, very low cost remedy and path to helping the body?

Hope none of the naysayers are big smokers and drinkers - that would disturb their purity.

[HuckleB]

56. So you'll buy into something that does not work, and then you'll run from science...

... using baseless conspiracy theories.

That is sad and funny.

[peacetalksforall]

61. Listen, knucklexxxx, IT WORKS FOR ME. Who the heck are you to tell me

it doesn't work for me. Who are you anyway? What is your angle? What are you selling or killing? You've done a poor job of convincing anyone. Just put-down one liners.

[HuckleB]

73. I'm pro-science.

You're pro-BS.

That much is clear.

[Confusious]

71. Homeopathy = faith healers

I have contempt for both,

They both take advantage of people,

Giving nothing and taking.

[Celebration]

57. Yawn

Seriously, who cares?

Contact me when they arrange a boycott of Kroger because they sell Fritos, because, uh, it is claimed that is actually food.

Which is the greater public health threat?

The consumption of highly salted corn chips with hydrogenated fat, purchased in grocery stores around the world?

Or energetically imprinted water?

[HuckleB]

58. Thanks for the red herring.

Is anyone claiming that Fritos can cure what ails ya?

Didn't think so.

Next.

-----------

And, please, be my guest. Start a campaign against "faux food."

[Celebration]

60. where does the homeopathic manufacturer

Claim that it can cure what ails you?

Seriously there are so many restrictions on health claims, I doubt if you can come up with anything.

However, it is hard to stop free speech (consumers saying it helped, etc.).

Anyway, the overconsumption and promotion of junk food actually IS a threat. Homeopathy is not harmful, and is used by relatively few consumers anyway. People waste a lot of money on bottled water as well, when it has been shown not to be any better than municipal water.

Believe me, the answer is NOT trying to ban the sale of everything that you personally wouldn't buy. But, when going down that route, you can make a lot better argument for cigarettes, high fructose corn syrup, Big Macs, than you can for bottled water in any form.

[HuckleB]

63. Have you been to a store that sells homeopathic products?

http://www.hylands.com/products/migraine.php

http://www.hylands.com/products/teething.php

It's far too easy to meet your request.

[Celebration]

64. well that makes it easy

Someone can probably get their money back if it doesn't work. It looks like they have a couple of happy customers.

[HuckleB]

65. So you think there should be no regulation of "big pharma" then, too?

If not, thanks for the hypocrisy.

Bye.

[Celebration]

67. if they try to market water

I would say, let them go for it!! And, all sans FDA approval process.

After all, we don't regulate bottled water, do we? Just because it comes in small bottles and is expensive does not mean that such an innocuous product should be regulated.

I would much prefer that Merck and Pfizer, et. al. try to make up for expiring patent drugs by trying to market water, rather than paying off generic firms not to produce generic drugs.

Pfizer Water--Homeopathic Version of Prozac. Since Prozac doesn't seem to be much better than a placebo anyway, this makes sense to me. And keep the stinkin' FDA out of it. Of course, the FDA wouldn't be likely to give big Pharma much trouble anyway.

I rather like this idea.

[HuckleB]

69. Excuses. Excuses.

Every excuse you try to push has been shown to be crap, yet you keep offering more excuses, and you fail to answer the legitimate questions asked of you.

BYE!

[BuddhaGirl]

74. Hylands make some great remedies

their Calms Forte works great - I use it pretty regularly!

Thanks for posting! ;-)

[HuckleB]

75. You can throw away your money, though, it's mind boggling why Hylands is allowed to be in business..

You'd probably do more good to put your money toward improving the lives of others, but...

[BuddhaGirl]

85. it's not mind boggling, really

many find benefit from those remedies...but go ahead and bash, I don't really care :-)

[HuckleB]

86. Many could find the same benefit if told to eat a blade of grass as a cure.

But don't let that stop you from throwing your money away.

[BuddhaGirl]

88. you're entitled to your opinion

:-)

[HuckleB]

89. Opinions are meaningless.

The evidence speaks for itself.

[BuddhaGirl]

92. the evidence speaks for itself

yes - I've seen it when I use homeopathy, and so have many others. It works!

[HuckleB]

93. At best, it works as a placebo has been shown to work.

That's not viable treatment. You know it. I know it. And it's time to stop the snake oil sellers.

[BuddhaGirl]

94. your truth is your truth

and my truth is mine. I know what works for me. You can continue to deride, so have at it if you must :-)

[HuckleB]

95. You can live by the anecdote, and you can die by the anecdote.

I am trying to stop snake oil from negatively affecting myself, my family, my friends and my fellow citizens. You can choose to support snake oil, but I find that to be truly unethical.

O8)

[BuddhaGirl]

96. yes, because homeopathy is killing millions

millions, I say!! :rofl:

"I am trying to stop snake oil from negatively affecting myself, my family, my friends and my fellow citizens. You can choose to support snake oil, but I find that to be truly unethical." ummmmm...okay.

[HuckleB]

98. And yet another BS red herring from you.

:eyes:

Homeopathy: A Warning from Africa
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/09/homeopathy-warning-from-africa.html

[HuckleB]

100. Homeopathic malaria advice 'risks lives'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/5178122.stm

What's the harm in homeopathy?
http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

[HuckleB]

59. Homeopathy and the nocebo effect

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/28/homeopathy-placebo-bad-science

[peacetalksforall]

66. What is your interest in shooting one liners at h and its users.? Are you on the pharma payroll?

Tell us where you're coming from - it's obvious you are passionate about it.

We've told you we are users. What's your personal interest in shooting us down?

[HuckleB]

68. How is a link a "one liner?"

I am pro-science, and I am against people who want to scam other people.

Get it?

[Confusious]

72. Are you a shill

For the funeral homes when homeopathy fails to cure?

I haven't seen any proof you're not, so I will assume you are.

Otherwise, a person COULD think that some of us just have a hatred of snake oil salesmen, but that would take too much thought.

[Tumbulu]

78. He must be a shill, he's plenty rude

and I have used homeopathic remedies for years now and remain grateful for them.

They are cheap, work often and so what is the problem?

Arnica is the most amazing one, though. I keep arnica and apis (for stings) in my purse at all times. I get about 20 wasp stings a year and if I take the aphis right away they hurt for maybe 10 minutes. Otherwise it is days of pain.

Only true unscientific fundamentalists have the opinions of these rude posters.

[HuckleB]

79. The truth is rude?

However cheap your homeopathic medications are, they are still not worth a penny you've spent. You have no actual ability to discuss these matters because there is no defense for homeopathy. Thus, you go to the personal attack, and then you call me rude

That's pitiful and disgusting.

BTW, are you using a truly homeopathic dose of arnica? Or do you not understand what that means?

[Tumbulu]

80. I will only respond to polite discussion

so try again if you would like to discuss this with me.

[HuckleB]

81. You referred to me as a shill, but you want "polite discussion?"

WOW!

:crazy:

[HuckleB]

84. ...

http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/108

http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/pdf/SenseAboutHomeopathy.pdf

[woo me with science]

62. Good for the UK.

I wish they would do that here. It is increasingly upsetting to see homeopathic snake oil/water mixed in with the genuine medicine on store shelves in the US. People who haven't been educated about what homeopathy actually is (or more accurately, ISN'T) have no way of telling the difference.

Exposing this fraud should be part of basic science education in this country.

[HuckleB]

76. Indeed. I love the video connected to this short rant.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/back_to_the_golden_age_before_modern_med.php

[Peregrine Took]

77. I've had success with it - for bladder related issues such as burning

and urge/frequency and these problems are huge when you have them.

[HuckleB]

82. I am certain that those problems are huge...

I've had them, and they've usually gone away over time. A good part of it for me, was psychological... speaking of psychologica...

Placebo effect behind many "natural cures"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33833275/ns/health-alternative_medicine/

[HuckleB]

83. The facts...

http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/108

http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/pdf/SenseAboutHomeopathy.pdf

[bemildred]

87. Actually placebos can be very effective.

Nothing with a good dose of hocus pocus can work great, and MDs do it all the time.

[HuckleB]

90. Yes, but that brings a whole load of ethical issues in itself.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188891/pdf/jpn00074-0011.pdf

For some reason, homeopathy doesn't wrangle with such ethical matters.

[bemildred]

91. True.

There is still an "ethical problem" with selling nothing at high prices. But OTOH you gotta be convincing, or the placebo effect does not work, and MDs do it too.

I remember having it explained to me back in the 70s that it was essential for people to pay a lot for Transcendental Meditation "training" or it wouldn't work. I think pretty much all health care providers and self-help "providers" will resort to a little bullshit if the situation is right. I've never really been able to sort that issue - the ethics of selling nothing - out, I just know it's a very prevalent practice.

FWIW, I don't care for homeopathy or that sort of stuff, I think it's mostly bullshit, but if somebody thinks it works for them, in most cases I don't care.

[HuckleB]

97. Homeopathy: A Warning from Africa

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/09/homeopathy-warning-from-africa.html

[HuckleB]

99. David Mitchell and Dara O'Briain on Homeopathy & Psychics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZemJD-9IIqk

[HuckleB]

101. Sceptics to put alternative remedies to the test with national homeopathic overdose

http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2010/01/sceptics-to-put-alternative-remedies-to.html

A good piece on the campaign.