Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Does the flu vaccine matter?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Health Donate to DU
 
Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 09:58 AM
Original message
Does the flu vaccine matter?
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

But while vaccines for, say, whooping cough and polio clearly and dramatically reduced death rates from those diseases, the impact of flu vaccine has been harder to determine. Flu comes and goes with the seasons, and often it does not kill people directly, but rather contributes to death by making the body more susceptible to secondary infections like pneumonia or bronchitis. For this reason, researchers studying the impact of flu vaccination typically look at deaths from all causes during flu season, and compare the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

Such comparisons have shown a dramatic difference in mortality between these two groups: study after study has found that people who get a flu shot in the fall are about half as likely to die that winter—from any cause—as people who do not. Get your flu shot each year, the literature suggests, and you will dramatically reduce your chance of dying during flu season.

Yet in the view of several vaccine skeptics, this claim is suspicious on its face. Influenza causes only a small minority of all deaths in the U.S., even among senior citizens, and even after adding in the deaths to which flu might have contributed indirectly. When researchers from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases included all deaths from illnesses that flu aggravates, like lung disease or chronic heart failure, they found that flu accounts for, at most, 10 percent of winter deaths among the elderly. So how could flu vaccine possibly reduce total deaths by half? Tom Jefferson, a physician based in Rome and the head of the Vaccines Field at the Cochrane Collaboration, a highly respected international network of researchers who appraise medical evidence, says: “For a vaccine to reduce mortality by 50 percent and up to 90 percent in some studies means it has to prevent deaths not just from influenza, but also from falls, fires, heart disease, strokes, and car accidents. That’s not a vaccine, that’s a miracle.”

.............snip...............

Jackson’s findings showed that outside of flu season, the baseline risk of death among people who did not get vaccinated was approximately 60 percent higher than among those who did, lending support to the hypothesis that on average, healthy people chose to get the vaccine, while the “frail elderly” didn’t or couldn’t. In fact, the healthy-user effect explained the entire benefit that other researchers were attributing to flu vaccine, suggesting that the vaccine itself might not reduce mortality at all. Jackson’s papers “are beautiful,” says Lone Simonsen, who is a professor of global health at George Washington University, in Washington, D.C., and an internationally recognized expert in influenza and vaccine epidemiology. “They are classic studies in epidemiology, they are so carefully done.”




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. There is mortality and morbidity to be considered.
I always nagged my kids into getting their flu shots. My two oldest appreciated that the Spring their friends all missed two or three weeks of classes and they stayed healthy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mortality is a statistical thing. Catching the flu is a very
personal thing. I don't get the flu vaccine to protect anyone but myself. After my last case of the flu, which nearly landed me in the hospital about 15 years ago, I have been vaccinated every year and have not had the flu since, even when people around me had it.

On a personal level, it appears to have provided protection against the flu. On a statistical level, I have no idea, and don't really care all that much about those statistics.

Catch a really bad case of the flu, and you'll be lining up for the shots, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "Catch a really bad case of the flu, and you'll be lining up for the shots, too."
Absolutely true. I never got a flu shot until I had a terrible case once. I've gotten the shot every year since. If there's even only a chance of avoiding it, why the hell not?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. The herd effect helps as much as anything from vaccines -
particularly for those with weaker immune responses. If no one around you gets ill - you probably won't either
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. the whole point is
There is no evidence that they work at all. Yes, deaths are 50% less among the elderly that get flu vaccines, but it is likely due to the least ill people getting the vaccines. There have been no controlled studies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's funny to see this old article posted right after I posted about poor science journalism.
Edited on Sat Jan-23-10 09:41 PM by HuckleB
This was debunked way back in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x77046 (Go to the link and listen to the H1N1 update podcast. It's very informative. It explains exactly how this reporter misread the information she was using.)

But there's plenty more to chew on:

Journalists sink in The Atlantic article on vaccines
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/10/journalists_sink_in_the_atlant.php

Flu Vaccine Efficacy
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2040

Vaccination for H1N1 "swine" flu: Do The Atlantic, Shannon Brownlee, and Jeanne Lenzer matter?
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/10/when_methodolatry_strikes_over_h1n1_influenza.php

BTW, I've been a subscriber to The Atlantic for more than a decade, and the publication of this piss-poor article was the first time I seriously pondered canceling my subscription.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Health Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC