Science can find little evidence for alternative therapies

[HuckleB]

http://www.somdnews.com/stories/02192010/indymor173133_32233.shtml

"While they might be popular, many alternative therapies have no evidence to support them, according to Dr. Val Jones, a physical medicine and rehabilitation doctor in Vienna, Va., and owner of www.getbetterhealth.com, a group of medical blogs.

For instance, Jones attributes any purported successes of "energy therapies," which seek to balance or enhance energy flow in a person's body, to the power of suggestion.

"I'm honestly not aware of any scientific evidence that supports anything beyond the placebo effect with the energy healing modalities, including Reiki," Jones said.

"There is nothing we can measure that suggests there is a special force that needs to be balanced. That's not a measurable phenomenon, but I'm certain people say they feel better after experiencing these modalities."

..."


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A related piece on this issue:

Applying Science to Alternative Medicine
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/health/research/30tria.html


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I was so shocked to come across a story that actually covered this reality that I just had to post it. WOW!

:hi:

[stopbush]

1. There's no such thing as "alternative" medicine or therapy.

It's either medicine, or it isn't. It's either testable, provable, predictable and can be duplicated consistently or it's hokum.

[HuckleB]

2. Exactly.

[tabatha]

4. "Medicine" defined as extracts often from natural sources,

that would work just as well by using the natural source.

[HuckleB]

13. The Plant vs Pharmaceutical False Dichotomy

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6

[tabatha]

20. I know about that site, and I am a believer in nutrition.

I also know that many plants are toxic and have undesirable side effects.
I also know that just about every pharmaceutical has undesirable side effects; the ads promoting them even say so.

But, meandering through this plethora of good and bad information, I have developed certain guidelines about what to eat and what not. It has been a frustrating journey, because in one decade meat is good, and in another meat is bad, and then once again it could be good, etc.

I look for certain things that have been confirmed from more than one source, and especially if there have been scientific tests, such as this:

http://www.physorg.com/news139054245.html

And when I first married, my husband pooh-poohed my healthy eating and supplements. Some decades later after we split, he has cancer, I do not. I also look about a decade younger than I am.

So, the proof is in the pudding.

[HuckleB]

21. Apparently the "proof" is in the anecdote, for you.

Your description regarding thoughts on meat changing over time doesn't wash with me. Those who look at the full spectrum of evidence, rather than responding to single studies wouldn't fall into the trap of such drastic changes in one's outlook on such a matter.

And your anecdote about you and your ex is "not very scientific."

[tabatha]

23. If you knew a little more about it, it would be obvious to you...

but decency prevents me from saying more (regarding ex).

The full spectrum of evidence sometimes takes decades to uncover --- as it does with any scientific undertaking. It may not "wash" with you, but you have probably missed the eternal debate about whether the Atkins diet is correct, or the Mediterranean diet is correct, or the paleo-diet, etc. There is still ongoing debate, so the full spectrum of evidence is not yet in.

Here is someone doing her own research on her own special circumstances:
http://michellestype1diabetes.blogspot.com/

So if you can point me to the full spectrum of evidence regarding food, body types, etc, that would be useful where all of the food requirements is 100% known. But, I can guarantee, that it is not yet in.

Very shallow answer.

[HuckleB]

24. The only thing shallow here is the constant use of anecdotes on your part.

That's not science.

[Odin2005]

25. If we got only natural asprin willows would be extinct in a week.

[tabatha]

3. I believe in chemical alternatives

found in natural foods, because I have used them and they have worked, where two doctors had failed.
After the two-doctor failure, I embarked on a voyage of discovery, and learned what they should have told me.

[HuckleB]

15. Science-Based Nutrition

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=58

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

7. Meh.

:beer:

[kestrel91316]

6. I had a client years ago whose cat developed hyperthyroidism.

She flat out refused to treat with methimazole or consider curative I131, and opted for acupuncture. I got to hear the drama for months from her son who was my neighbor - the poor cat was doing "great", except she had developed heart failure, and wasn't that a pity since nothing could be done for it, and the acupuncture continued. Until the cat mercifully died. Of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy secondary to untreated hyperthyroidism.

People, acupuncture might help where pain or neurological problems exist, but under no circumstances does it do jack shit against hyperthyroidism.

I still get angry thinking about it. How that cat suffered unnecessarily........

[HuckleB]

9. Poor cat. Ugh. -nt-

[kestrel91316]

22. Yeah. Stupid people really piss me off.

[MineralMan]

8. And here are the other "arguments"

1. Science doesn't know everything.
2. I have a friend whose cousin's co-worker swears by...
3. I've been using homeopathetic remedies for years, and haven't been sick a day in my life.
4. I read on the internet that...
5. My aunt died of cancer, and the doctors didn't help at all.
6. The only medicine you need is...
7. How about them vaccines...they're killers.
8. A gluten-free diet will cure that.
9. I love homeopathetic remedies. They can't hurt you like big pharma drugs always do.
10. I went to several doctors and they couldn't tell me what I had, but this naturopath diagnosed me on the first visit. Now, I take several herbal medicines I buy from her, and I think I'm starting to feel better.

[HuckleB]

10. Thanks for getting those out of the way for us!

:toast:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

16. That's very kind of you.

Thank you, again.

[stopbush]

11. You forgot "the ancients had all kinds of knowledge that has been lost to the ages

and alternative medicines tap into that knowledge."

[MineralMan]

12. I think that's a corollary of "Science doesn't know everything...."

Besides, how long did those ancients live, anyhow? Discounting the Bible fables, I'm thinking it was into their early fifties, at best. That stuff didn't work all that well, I guess...

[laconicsax]

26. They lived for hundreds of years. The Bible says so!

And it's just as reliable as most alt-med treatments.

[tabatha]

18. I am a scientist, a chemist.

There is a lot of crappy pseudo-scientific stuff out there, but there are good alternatives that do work.
Those 10 items do not disprove the stuff that works.

I think Thom Hartmann has to follow a gluten-free diet. He gets physically ill if he does not.

And check out this blog, where a natural diet has actually worked ---- by scientific numbers:

http://michellestype1diabetes.blogspot.com/

I really dislike the tendency to paint everyone with a broad brush ---- it is SO unscientific.

[Newest Reality]

17. Darn those placebos!

Oh wait, that's a well-documented effect concerning major pharmaceuticals, too. Antidepressants, anyone?

Or has the psychosomatic aspect of disease no longer valid?

Well at least we can be sure that there is science and should accept no substitutes, from this information, because it is not biased.

Are we then supposed to lump all alternatives to the ensconced medical profession together and tacitly reject them from here-on-in? Was that the point being made, exactly? That was a rhetorical question.

And yes, I understand that the article is citing evidence and that the perceptions and mindset of a patient is considered a separate factor here.

[HuckleB]

19. We should hold all therapies to the same standards of proof, IMO.

Some good reading on the placebo issue...

The Placebo Effect
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=24

Studying Placebo Effects
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=90

The Placebo Myth
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=158