Steep Drop Seen in Circumcisions in U.S.

[Fumesucker]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17circ.html?_r=1

Despite a worldwide campaign for circumcision to slow the spread of AIDS, the rate of circumcision among American baby boys appears to be declining.

A little-noted presentation by a federal health researcher last month at the International AIDS Conference in Vienna suggested that the rate had fallen precipitously — to fewer than half of all boys born in conventional hospitals from 2006 to 2009, from about two-thirds through the 1980s and ’90s.

Last week, officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cautioned that the figures in the presentation were not definitive. But they are already stirring a sharp debate on the Internet.

The numbers were presented to the AIDS conference by a C.D.C. researcher, Charbel E. El Bcheraoui. The presentation was not covered by any mainstream news outlets, but a report by the news service Elsevier Global Medical News, along with a photograph of a slide from the presentation, quickly made the rounds of the blogosphere.

More at the link..

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. Yay!

There's more work to be done, though. 50 percent of boys here are still having their genitals mutilated, but it's heartening to hear that the people are getting it.

[damntexdem]

27. I'm glad I was; and happy that we had my son circumcized.

I would encourage any parent of a baby boy to consider it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

39. Sorry, you're way out of touch

And I feel sorry for your son.

[Maru Kitteh]

209. Hell yes. How about we stop mutilating everyones genitaia altogether?

Or at least make sure people are consenting adults first.

[Cronus Protagonist]

254. Absolutely!

I have no problem with adults deciding to do this. I doubt even as much as 0.5% would elect to do this to themselves once reaching adulthood. Much less, in fact.

[Touchdown]

2. Good!

I hope more people come to their senses and the rate drops by half again in the next decade.

[MineralMan]

3. Oh, cool! A Circumcision thread!

I'm glad there's no political news out there. A slow news day is a good thing these days. It lets us discuss more important topics in GD.

I love a good circumcision thread after lunch. Just let me grab something to eat for desert....:popcorn:

[Fumesucker]

4. Variety is the spice of life...

Bon appetit..

:)

:toast:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

29. Ah, I see you have managed to work an insult into even this thread.

Good job! That's amazing.

[Touchdown]

35. Insult? I have no idea what your talking about

I use fucking in every sentence because I can't get over my Army talk from the late 80s.

[Fumesucker]

I was a Marine in the late sixties, early seventies..

Right before Thanksgiving one year the base newsrag had a little thing that said if you're sitting around the Thanksgiving dinner table when you're home on leave and you ask someone to pass the salt.. *don't* describe it..

:)

Some things never change..

[saigon68]

271. I heard that before

[Dr.Phool]

62. Only in his own mind.

He needed an excuse to alert on it.

[Touchdown]

65. I see.

All it takes is a well placed "hint" in a post title and his will be done.

[MineralMan]

75. Ah, but I didn't alert on it.

Someone else did. I prefer to leave such stuff visible.

[Touchdown]

80. You didn't have to.

Well placed words to friends keep your hands clean.

[MineralMan]

91. I didn't do that, either.

As I said, I prefer to keep insults visible. Some disagree with that. I don't control what others do. Insults diminish the person making them far more than they do the one insulted. That's why I want them to remain visible.

[Touchdown]

94. Sure, you didn't.

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

100. It is the truth. Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.

[TroglodyteScholar]

183. Why are you having an exchange with someone called "Ignored?"

Seems silly to me....

[MineralMan]

187. I have exactly zero DUers on ignore. I don't ignore posters.

I prefer to know what everyone is saying.

[dionysus]

238. holy paranoia batman!!!

:rofl:

[Touchdown]

255. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

[Renew Deal]

44. You might not have to see this if there was a Mens Forum

:D

[MineralMan]

79. Well, that's true enough.

Maybe a men's forum would be useful, if it kept discussions about "junk" like this out of GD. Over in the Men's Forum, people could talk about their junk all day long. I'd never see it, so they wouldn't have to deal with my comments.

[Ignis]

48. AGREED! We should only have serious political threads in GD.

Like these ones, for example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=9021852
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8923622
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8934562
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8916103

:P

(Just taking the piss on a Friday; no harm intended. :hi:)

[SoxFan]

54. I'd steer clear of Vienna Sausages

Just sayin'... :yoiks:

[MineralMan]

81. Hmm....The original skinless wiener. You're right.

[Radical Activist]

199. It has been much too long.

These arguments are always the same ugly flamefest but they never disappoint. I wonder how long it will take to get locked.

[donheld]

262. Sorry, I'm late

:beer:

[marmar]

5. A snip dip?

:P

[Fumesucker]

9. Don't get snippy with us now..

Just a tip for the wise..

:P

[kenny blankenship]

10. Just a bit off the top really

not slashed to the bone.

[madokie]

6. I was about 4 when I was circumsized

still remember it well too I might add.
You see I was born at home in march of '48 and I guess it wasn't a big deal then, but in '52 when I was it was a big deal to me anyway.

[Fumesucker]

8. We have been told many, many times that it is virtually painless..

I can't imagine why you would remember something at four years old that was no more traumatic than a haircut..













Yes, It's :sarcasm:

[lumberjack_jeff]

251. I was asked to "help" when it was done to my youngest.

I can tell you, it obviously hurt like a motherfucker.

[palotin]

11. Good News

Circumcision became prevalent outside the Jewish communities in the US as part of early 20th century obsession with a (anti-)sexualized concept of hygiene. Basically it was done because it decreased sensitivity in the area and so was an anti-masturbation device, and as such 'clean'. In a country where condoms are easily attained and their use is standard, we have no businesses using puritanical genital mutilation based only on the excuse that it might help prevent the transmission of certain STDs.

[semillama]

280. You have said all that needs to be said on the topic

I fully expect to never see another circumcision thread on DU!

[Dr.Phool]

12. Would a French Revolution Severence Package be like.

Circumcising a dickhead?

[scheming daemons]

13. So.... you're saying there has been a drastic CUT in circumcisions?

ouch..

[Fumesucker]

18. I think it's actually a *sharp* cut..

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge..

[HughBeaumont]

14. .

Nah . . .

[Fumesucker]

16. You'd rather argue over whether Obama is slapping gays in the face?

Stabbing them in the back or throwing them under the bus?

[HughBeaumont]

21. It's just that the last go-around of this sort of thing . . .

. . . rattled off about four million responses and it just was painful . . . lots of "I'm resentful!" and it went absolutely nowhere and there are far bigger fish to catch.

Personally, I'm GLAD I don't have junk that looks like a just-picked root. I'm in the "I was a baby, don't remember it, don't care" camp . . . Someone doesn't want to circumcise their kid, then don't. But should they be straight-up outlawed?

[Fumesucker]

25. There are a million arguments on the naked DU..

This is one of them.

And most of them go nowhere.

[Touchdown]

17. Are those dick grab smileys?

They look like it!:P

[HughBeaumont]

19. Smaller version of this:

[mod mom]

15. My husband wasn't circumcized then had to have it done in his 20's which

was very hard. We elected to have my son's done right after he was born and don't regret it one bit.

[BillStein]

22. are you sure he doesn't? (or won't?)

[Touchdown]

24. Of course he won't regret it

Resent may be another story though. This is why nature makes children the decision makers on nursing homes and psychiatric asylums.

[mod mom]

155. He's a teenager now and doesn't regret our decision.

My point is it's much more serious of a procedure to have done as an adult.

[Touchdown]

164. My point is that it doesn't need to be done at all.

The actual rate of medical neccesity is like .001%.

It's (the foreskin) just not a big danger to men. Stop acting like it's an inevitability. That is spreading untruths.

And give your son the other side of the story, about what he actually lost (you know, the facts you are keeping from him), then come back and see if he doesn't resent you taking his right to his body integrity away from him.

[qb]

20. Lucky boys! (the ones who weren't cut)

:bounce:

[11 Bravo]

23. Keep the tip?

[MineralMan]

33. Save The Turtlenecks?

[damntexdem]

26. Should this trend be nipped in the bud?

;-)

[MineralMan]

28. Why is it, I wonder, that, no matter where the forum,

Someone starts a circucision thread a couple of times a year. Is there some kind of organization that is paying people to start these threads. Is it ploggers who are posting this stuff on all those forums. Even a boating forum I'm on gets one or two of these threads a year.

Uff da!

[Touchdown]

31. ...

[Fumesucker]

34. I think I just hurt myself..

And my dogs are looking at me thinking I've lost my mind..

[Fumesucker]

32. It was a recent news item..

From August 16th of this year.. I just happened to read about it today.

Are you accusing me of being a paid troll?

And besides, the pay is pathetic, I depend on tips.

[MineralMan]

37. What? You're not being paid? My check from this organization

came just yesterday for my work in disrupting circumcision threads: www.eradicatesmegmanow.org

[Fumesucker]

40. The tips are much better..

[MineralMan]

30. I have it on good authority that President Obama is going to

issue an executive order requiring all males in the USA to be circumcised. It's the same good authority that is predicting sharp cuts in Social Security. Very reliable stuff.

[Fumesucker]

36. I appreciate you keeping my thread kicked for the maximum exposure..

That is your aim, right?

[MineralMan]

38. It's what I live for. But, seriously, I get paid to disrupt

circumcision threads.

[Fumesucker]

42. You can't disrupt a train wreck..

Which is what just about every circumcision thread I've seen turns into..

But then I'm a born rubbernecker and a connoisseur of flamewars.

[MineralMan]

52. What?

You write: "Which is what just about every circumcision thread I've seen turns into..

But then I'm a born rubbernecker and a connoisseur of flamewars."

So, you deliberately posted this thread so you could enjoy a flameware? How strange.

[Fumesucker]

55. You would prefer flamewars about Obama's treatment of any number of constituencies?

Gays?

Environmentalists?

The Professional Left?


I thought it was an interesting statistic, it's relatively recent and it distracts a bit from some of the more divisive *political* flamewars which are ongoing.

The fact that it's a subject that attracts flames is just a bonus in my view.

Don't forget that I work for tips.

[Renew Deal]

47. You're officially trolling at this point.

If you don't care for the discussion then leave.

[janx]

51. Well of course he is!

He's being paid! Didn't you read his posts? :rofl:

[MineralMan]

53. The whole thread is in that category.

As admitted by the OP. See #42.

[Fumesucker]

108. No, I just said it was a fringe benefit..

It's actually a valid statistic from a valid news source.

[Catherina]

145. Par for the course

despite the suck up threads.

[Llewlladdwr]

41. Considering that circumcision has been linked to a lesser likelihood of contracting AIDS...

is this necessarily a good thing?

[Touchdown]

43. it's been linked by quacks.

So yes. It is a good thing.

[Fumesucker]

45. Europe has a higher higher incidence of AIDS than the USA?

I'd have to see a link before I'd buy that..

You are aware I hope that the prevalence of circumcision is far lower in Europe than America?

If circumcision were truly a significant factor in the spread of AIDS in western societies then Europe should have a higher incidence of AIDS.

[laconicsax]

279. You can see here--it's way higher in Europe.

Wait...did I say higher? Whoops! I mean lower.

[Renew Deal]

46. Is it worth mutilating millions of boys?

:shrug:

[Lyric]

148. In my opinion? Yes. AIDS kills. Circumcision doesn't.

And changing the glans penis skin from mucous membrane to more normal skin is obviously a good way to shield men from contracting HIV via their penises, simply because viruses cannot pass through normal, keratinized skin in the same way that they can pass through mucous membrane.

And there's absolutely no way to know for sure if circumcision performed during infancy actually diminishes sexual pleasure or not, since we can't interview infants for a controlled study. It's entirely possible that the nerve endings there can sometimes recover by the time the baby becomes an adult. After all...newborns are still pumped full of stem cells. An adult who gets circumcised is not going to experience the same level of nerve healing that an infant does. In fact, it's *possible* that some men who were circumcised as infants have managed to re-route nerve endings and heal in such a way that their sexual pleasure is no less than that of an intact adult man. The human body is an amazing machine--why assume the worst? But even if it *does* mean a slight reduction in the intensity of sexual euphoria, I think that the enormous AIDS risk reduction is still well worth it.

Basically, if you're a circumcised man who abstains from all anal sex (either as a giver OR as a receiver), and who doesn't ever use IV drugs...your risk of contracting HIV is pretty darned low. Consistently using a condom during vaginal sex lowers your risk to almost nil. That is most certainly "worth it" to me. I have a son. Protecting his life means more to me than whether he has Incredibly Amazing or merely Amazing future orgasms. Of course, my son might turn out to be interested in anal sex someday, whether he's gay or straight. That's why I'm still going to stress condom use. Just because he has an advantage in not having a membranous glans penis doesn't mean that he shouldn't take every possible precaution.

And I have no issue with those who disagree and have chosen otherwise. I just don't feel guilty or ashamed of the choice that *I* made, and I don't care for people who demand that I *should*. I'm a lesbian. I've lost too damned many of my gay male friends (and one or two straight friends) to AIDS over the years, and unlike a lot of "average" people, I've SEEN firsthand the horrible, painful, prolonged death that is often the result of an HIV infection. If I can do something to make my son less likely to go through THAT, then I don't feel one tiny SHRED of guilt or shame. Not. One. Shred.

[Touchdown]

161. Average of 230 infant deaths occur from circumcisions

Hospital self reporting in the US is over 174 deaths per year from circumcisions.

By contrast in the US..

22 deaths from all children from choking on non food objects.
73 deaths from choking on food.

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/death-from-circumcision.html

The BS quackery that this HIV in Africa study clearly stated that the rate of HIV infection in intact men is a lot lower than deaths caused by routine infant circumcisions, and a HELL of a lot less than tribal ritual circumcisions of teenagers in South Africa & Kenya.

You would have guilt if you had one tine SHRED of facts in your post. I am a gay male, and I find it disgusting that you would pass off wives tales and quackery as medical fact.

[phleshdef]

152. Its funny because it looks less like mutilation than sporting a wrinkly ass hoody.

[Touchdown]

162. I was 12 years old at one time too!

... but I grew up.

[SarahB]

198. If we remove newborn's appendix's they will have a 0% chance of appendicitis.

Let's cut those kids open!

[SoxFan]

49. I'll take "Slow News Days" for 500, Alex...

[Renew Deal]

50. That's because the pro-mutilation crowd is out to poison the well.

:hide:

Who's unreccing this thread?

[CBGLuthier]

56. Thanks for reminding me

Almost forgot to unrec.

[JuniperLea]

59. Maybe Jews are?

Perhaps they find this discussion insulting?

[MineralMan]

61. +1

And never mind the rest of us who are circumcised, for whatever reason.

[JuniperLea]

70. Yep... I think those are personal reasons...

I really hate seeing personal views foisted upon everyone else. Religious or otherwise. Hands off my rights! But I'm going to tinker with yours until you have none... but what's really important here are my rights and my views.

Sort of like the "I have mine, to hell with you" ideals of the GOP.

[Touchdown]

63. Why? Jews are, what 8-15% of the population, and 50% are still circ'd?

It seems that a lot more non Jewish boys are being circumcised for what is supposed to be an exclusive covenant with God. Christians aren't supposed to be doing this.

But, I suppose your right. I'm an anti-semite bigot because I want my foreskin back.:eyes:

[JuniperLea]

67. So, minorities in uber small numbers should cave to the will of everyone else?

I'm pretty sure that's unconstitutional... just like Prop H8... just because a bunch of people think something should be so, they can't take away someone else's rights with a vote.

[Touchdown]

71. Who said anybody must cave?

I wish it never happened, but I'm not about to dictate how a group of people decide which blood sacrifice they make to their diety.

What I will say is that it should not be done for dubious "health" reasons.

[Fumesucker]

74. Absolutely not..

Unless of course it's female circumcision, at which point even a token "nick" gets overwhelmingly condemned and the Constitution flies out the closest window.

You gotta love the double standard, it's certainly better than no standard at all.

[MineralMan]

85. The two procedures are not equivalent in any way.

"Female Circumcision" is a euphemism for complete removal of the clitoris or clitoridectomy. If you want an equivalent for that in males it would be a penectomy. Those are not performed, except in very rare circumstances.

In some cases, however, clitoral circumcisions are performed as a medical procedure. It's not at all a common surgery, but you can look it up on Google if you're interested.

Educate yourself, and you won't make such mistakes in posting.

[Touchdown]

89. Actually, your wrong. There are 4 general types of fgm.

And the one you described is the most brutal and least prevalent. Labiaplasty is the most prevalent. Nicking, excising the clitoral hood (the most equivalent to male circ) are the other 3.

You should educate yourself, Bud.

[Fumesucker]

96. That's not true and you know it..

This has been discussed many times here and the facts have been posted repeatedly, there are different levels of FGM and they do not all involve clitoridectomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting#Female_circumcision

When it is important to distinguish between the variations of Type I cutting, the following subdivisions are proposed: Type Ia, removal of the clitoral hood or prepuce only (which some view as analogous to male circumcision and thus more acceptable);

And I was talking about a token nick if you'll read my actual words.

[SoxFan]

72. Oh look, Thomas Aquinas showed up

When did you become a theologian, Touchdown?

[Touchdown]

77. When the idea of...

When I see a bronze age tribal rite of manhood twisted into a "medical" justification, then mis-interpreted by a religious person to think any questioning of that means I'm no different than a pro-Hezbolah and a holocaust denier.

[JuniperLea]

90. What religious person would that be? eom

[Touchdown]

93. You.

[JuniperLea]

103. Hahahaha!

You extrapolated me being a religious person from that post?

:rofl:

That is so fucking rich!

:rofl:

[Touchdown]

106. Oh'. I get it now. Your just being helpful to the Jews then.

Sort of a "HATE IT FOR YA!" type of concierge.

If their not outraged themselves, then you just decided to nudge them a little for their own good.

[MineralMan]

110. Some of us who are non-religious, still believe that freedom to

practice one's religion is an important right. When you equate a Mohel with a butcher, you appear not to respect that right. Now, maybe I'm wrong, and you may be a great supporter of religious freedom. I don't know, but it doesn't sound that way to me, given your intolerance of this ancient Jewish ritual.

[Touchdown]

115. I'm an atheist. My post to you down thread should've made that obvious

I have no power or voice on how the religious practice their faiths. All I do know is that Jewish babies feel pain too.

Whether or not it's worth it is up to the baby when he's old enough to understand what was done to him, and decide if the reasons behind it were worth the loss of body integrity and the ownership of his own body choices.

Circumcision is a bronze age rite of manhood tribal ritual that the Hebrews adopted and sanctified. That is history. That cannot be changed. I find circumcision barbaric and a form of Age of Taurus butchery. If you think that makes me a bigot, then bring back trepanning to purge the demons from the Christians.

[MineralMan]

117. I wasn't talking about you, to be quite frank.

I don't care about your beliefs or non-beliefs regarding religion.

[Touchdown]

124. Uh. Yeah you were talking to me.

I was the one who said "Butchery tools" down thread, which led you to put words in my mouth to pretend that I said mohels are butchers, so you can try to bait me into saying something so you can get me banned from DU.

[MineralMan]

175. Well, I'd hate to see you banned from DU. I don't want to see anyone

banned from DU. You called the tools that only Mohels use "butcher tools." If only Mohels use them, then the implication is quite clear, indeed. That site was specifically selling tools for Mohels. Surgeons use different implements to perform circumcisions. So, what did you mean? Here's your chance to clarify your post.

[Touchdown]

191. When you chop up meat, what do you call the practice?

Butchery. A cleaver for spare ribs, or a crushing tool and a knife for a foreskin. Meat is meat, and butchery is cutting meat.

[janx]

225. When you cut into a woman's lower belly to deliver a child,

what do you call that?

[Touchdown]

231. A C section. What else?

[janx]

233. MAJOR SURGERY n/t

[Touchdown]

235. I agree

What does this have to do with male genital mutilation?

[janx]

237. delete

[dionysus]

239. good lord, paranoia runs DEEEEEEP

[Touchdown]

256. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

[JuniperLea]

123. I hardly think they need my help...

And I've not run to any of the Jews I know in outrage... so your point is?

[Touchdown]

127. "So your point is?"

Is that you must have amnesia, because it was you who said you were sure that Jews were offended.

Now, you just either admitted that you didn't poll any Jews to know for sure, so you may have just pulled that out of your ass to flame... but if you do have amnesia, maybe you did poll the Jews on DU and just forgot you did, so you got a convenient excuse.

Either way. Your argument is done.

[JuniperLea]

131. Are you not familiar with punctuation?

I did include a question mark (upright hook with a dot beneath it), meaning, it was a question, as in, I was asking. It wasn't a statement at all, as you are claiming. "Is that you must have amnesia, because it was you who said you were sure that Jews were offended."

No amnesia here, clearly.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

140. Wow...

Just when I thought you'd already hit as low as you could go.

[Touchdown]

141. If you want to continue playing dumb

than who am I to stop you? I'm not any lower than when I started in this thread. You just admitted that you have no idea what Jewish people in DU think of this thread, but pretended that you did, and in posting that, you implied a charge that anybody who is against circumcision must be an anti-semite.

You are the one who is low.

[SoxFan]

149. MY GOD! IT'S FULL OF WORDS!

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

240. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray:

[Touchdown]

257. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

128. Oh' you are just so clever, I bet you just giggle at your own snark.

I validate you. :applause:

[SoxFan]

129. Thank you

I'll be here all week. Try the buffet, and tip your bartender.

[Name removed]

253. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

264. They are 1/4 of 1 percent. You are real enlightened. nt

[Touchdown]

265. Then you proved my point more.

Thank you. I really did not know, which is why I framed that in the form of a question.

[LostinVA]

273. More like 2-3% last I read

[laconicsax]

278. Try ~2%

The percentage of the US population that is Jewish is around 2%, not 8-15%. Not that it affects the rest of your comment.

[Fumesucker]

68. There are plenty of conversations on DU that I *could* find insulting..

I choose not to click on those that I think may offend my delicate sensibilities.

Choice, ain't it wonnerful?

ETA: And, for the record, a great many Muslim males are circumcised also, I suspect far more than Jewish males.

Interesting that you didn't care if Muslims found this thread insulting.

[JuniperLea]

78. I had no knowledge of Muslim circumcision practices...

Interesting that you think someone shouldn't speak up unless they know it all.

[Fumesucker]

83. For someone as interested in circumcision and religion as you seem to be..

It strikes me as a bit odd that you didn't know circumcision is highly prevalent among Muslims.

It's not like this subject hasn't been discussed before on DU and I'm pretty sure I've seen you posting on those threads (please correct me if I'm wrong about this).

[JuniperLea]

87. This is the first time I've ever discussed a Muslim's penis in any respect at all...

So, I'm thinking you're mistaken.

I'm not sure why it would be odd that I don't know about their practices. Quite frankly, I think it's odd that you would think it's odd.

[Fumesucker]

99. You haven't posted on any of the circumcision threads here before?

I'm too lazy to go and search but I think you have posted on circumcision threads on DU before, you're certainly interested in arguing about the topic.

[JuniperLea]

102. Did you read what I wrote at all?

Did I ever say I never wrote in a c. thread?

:eyes:

All these fumes are making me dizzy.

[Fumesucker]

104. The point being that Muslim circumcision has been discussed on these threads before..

Which is why I phrased things the way I did, if you have read many of the previous circ threads you would know that Muslim men are very often circumcised.

Now we have established that you have indeed read some of the previous threads on this subject so your ignorance is not particularly understandable.

[JuniperLea]

122. I wouldn't say I've read "many" of them...

And I've already told you I've never read anything, discussed anything, or have known anything about Muslim practices in this regard. Yet you are somehow wanting that not to be so. I don't take kindly to being called a liar... and I'm really offended by this thread and your disregard for not only your fellow DUers, but for Jews... and since you mentioned it, and I'm now fully aware, I'm offended on behalf of Muslims now as well.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

142. I was going to post something along similar lines--

you beat me to it! ;-)

[Touchdown]

143. And you'd be just as wrong as she is.

So it's a good thing you didn't.

[janx]

150. I disagree. n/t

[Touchdown]

169. How do you disagree? Wanting my foreskin back makes me an anti-semite?

Is that the disagreement?

[MineralMan]

180. That's way too much information, I think.

We don't want to know the state of your foreskin. Thanks.

[Touchdown]

184. Then leave the thread.

I am going to talk about it in here, as it's thread appropriate. You don't like it, then go away.

[MineralMan]

189. I don't think so. I'll stay in this or any other thread, as I see fit.

You do not get to tell me in which threads I may or may not post. I will also feel free to comment on any post in any thread. Thanks for your patience.

[Touchdown]

192. Likewise, you don't get to tell me what I can and cannot say in this or any other thread.

Thanks for your paternalism.

[MineralMan]

197. You're welcome, son...

:rofl:

[dionysus]

241. !!

:toast:

[Touchdown]

258. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

[JuniperLea]

151. So, now you speak for all Jews?

Wow...

[Touchdown]

158. Are you on a planet where it's customary to put words in people's mouths?

If so, call me when your shuttle lands.

[SoxFan]

57. *

[SoxFan]

58. !

[MineralMan]

64. LOL!

Prickly Sensations? Needles and Pins Twinges? Ask your doctor about ThornBGone Today!

[Lucian]

60. Condoms slow the spread of HIV, so infant males don't need to be circumcised anymore.

Especially in the US.

[Touchdown]

66. Yeah, but if a baby is going to have unprotected sex in Africa with a prostitute

then he better be snipped before teethes.
:sarcasm:

[iamthebandfanman]

76. yeah, everyone wears a condom. duh. n/t

[Touchdown]

97. At least it's his or his partner's choice.

Not a parent's who's been fed a line of "hygiene" BS by a quack looking to pad the hospital bill.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

69. I dont really understand how that has a correlation to AIDS

And why dont we see this as an extreme religious body modification? Getting a tattoo! How horrible why would you want to do that to your body? But do please cut the skin off your penis. For God.

[Evasporque]

116. Why....

AIDS infection rates are shown to be higher in uncircumcised men. Due to the ability for fluids and blood to be retained under the foreskin. Thus if a man has multiple partners in the same day...without fully pulling back and cleaning under the foreskin, body fluids can still contain viable virus. It is analagous to reusing a needle. Though the same occurs for circumcised males there is simply a better chance of fluids being trapped there. Also it is the receiving partner that generally is infected. So after penetration micro tears in the intestinal lining and the folding back of the foreskin during intercourse exposes those fluids to the bloodstream.

[Touchdown]

134. No they do not.

The studies you are getting that from were meta studies that measured nothing related to any actual biological lab work. The reasons given about fluids and Langerhans cells are mere educated guesses and are now being debunked, one by one.

All they did was circumcise more than 500 men and did not circ the other bunch. What they also did was instruct the circ'd men on condom usage and not the uncircumcised men. What they also did was start the study right after the mass circumcision, when the healing period for the freshly circumcised men would be six weeks without sex, and let the uncircumcised men go at it uneducated and ealier than the circ'd men. When the study was mid way through they found approximately 23 circumcised men contracted HIV and about 56 intact men contracted it. Pretty low numbers considering the large study group, and not very convincing. So they just divided the two and came up with "near 60%" weasel statistic and called their publicity agents.

[LostInAnomie]

73. Well, I hope the younger generation of ladies are big fans of turtlenecks...

... because it's going to be awfully hard to convince their men to change when they get older.

[Mariana]

88. The ladies in Europe have managed to accept the fact

that most of their men are intact. I'm sure the ladies in the US will do so, too.

[Crunchy Frog]

234. It's all cultural conditioning.

If it's something that they're used to seeing (which it apparently will be) they will probably see it as normal and not have issues with it, just like in the rest of the developed world.

[Codeine]

275. Every woman I've ever been with

has been adamant; "If it's not cut it is NOT going in my mouth!" ;)

[MineralMan]

82. A source for Mohel Supplies...for those interested in this

subject.

http://www.hasofer.com/page.pl?p=prosupplies

[Touchdown]

84. A sales pitch? You get a finder's fee for butcher tools?

Why don't you get a hot dog cart and earn an honest living?

[MineralMan]

86. Butcher tools? Those are only used by mohels to perform

a religious ceremony. Are you suggesting that that religious ceremony should be banned? Really?

When performed on non-Jewish infants, other surgical tools are used by physicians.

[Touchdown]

92. Did I stutter? BUTCHER TOOLS!

I'm not suggesting anything but the halting of the use of flowery language to describe barbarism.

[MineralMan]

95. I suspect that a lot of people would reject your description.

Check in Israel for a bunch of them. As for your stuttering, I can't hear you from here.

[Touchdown]

98. They may. But many more agree with me.

And it's not going the other way.

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

[MineralMan]

101. How many people do you suppose are on that site's mailing

list? And how many of those are Jews? I don't believe there is a serious movement to stop circumcision amongst Jews. Anyone can put up a website. I can create one in less than an hour. A website does not a movement make. It's just a website.

BTW, are you equating a Mohel with a butcher? Really? That's pretty interesting, if it's true.

[Touchdown]

105. It's the truth. Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant.

A mohel performs a bronze age blood sacrifice to a deity that decided to not show one shred of proof of his existence. It is a covenant of the Jew accepting belief is said sky fairy. Since the religion would die out if this blood sacrifice were only to be performed on those personally making the covenant themselves as adults. The practice was moved to 8 day olds, and the religious justification was altered in the Greek era to allow the covenant with the sky fairy by parental proxy instead. Making sure that the cycle of barbarism is continued.

[MineralMan]

107. Well, I always prefer to let people practice their religious

superstitions as they choose. I was circumcised as an infant. I don't consider it much of an issue. I can't see that it harmed me in any way, and it was common practice in 1945, when I was born, in keeping with the medical opinion of the day. No persistent effects.

If people believe that they should do this, and it has no permanent deleterious effects, then that's their belief and their choice.

[Fumesucker]

109. So as long as body modifications on children have no "permanent deleterious effects"..

Then you are fine with those modifications?

How about tattoos?

Should parents be allowed to have their infants tattooed?

[MineralMan]

112. If it is a religious requirement, sure.

I don't know of a religion that specifically requires that children be tattooed, though. I believe there have been cultures where such was the practice, but I'm not sure which ones. I'll go see if I can find one.

A quick search doesn't turn up any cultural tattoos of children. However several Pacific Island cultures, including the Maori, used tattoos as a marker of the transition from childhood to adulthood as a cultural ritual.

Here in America, that practice seems to be continuing, since tattooing generally begins during adolescence, although it's not done by parents to their children.

However, in Judaism, tattoos are forbidden. So, they don't do that.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

121. I haven't noticed any Rastafarians failing to partake of their

sacrament. Nor have I heard of any being arrested for doing so. Do you know any Rastafarians? I do.

[Fumesucker]

133. So Rasta's sacrament is legal in the USA?

Not according to Obama's spokesman on the drug war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Kerlikowske

In a May 22, 2009 interview on KUOW radio, he said any drug 'legalization' would be "waving the white flag" and that "legalization is off the the charts when it comes to discussion, from my viewpoint" and that "legalization vocabulary doesn't exist for me and it was made clear that it doesn't exist in President Obama's vocabulary." Specifically about marijuana, he said, "It's a dangerous drug" and about the medical use of marijuana, he said, "we will wait for evidence on whether smoked marijuana has any medicinal benefits - those aren't in."

Since you don't see fit to answer my questions I see no reason to answer yours.

[Touchdown]

137. Rasta also says to kill homosexuals (they're part of Babylon)...

since it's based on an Ethiopian form of Christianity. That's pretty illegal in America too.

[Fumesucker]

144. Eh, one thing infringes on the rights of another...

The other thing does not..

And besides, all good Christians know that according to Leviticus homosexuals are an abomination and should be slain also.

I just wish they wouldn't quote Leviticus while eating at Red Lobster in their polyester/cotton blend clothes. ;)

[MineralMan]

203. No. Marijuana is illegal in the United States. However, that does

not stop its wide use by many here. Generally, users are not busted for smoking it in most jurisdictions. Most arrests for marijuana are for large quantities or for growing the plant for illegal sales.

That's all changing, but not nearly quickly enough. Even though I quit smoking it in 1974, I'm still interested in following enforcement as it actually is done.

Rastafarians smoke it quite freely, and arrests for its use are very, very low in that group. The cops seem to have better things to do than go looking for Rastafarians smoking a spliff.

I did answer your question, but I'm happy to answer it in more detail. People who only smoke marijuana aren't at much risk for arrest in most places. Nobody gives a crap, really.

[MineralMan]

182. You refer to children as "crotch fruit?"

Goodness, that's offensive as it gets. Shameful, I think. Everyone here was a child, including yourself, and many DUers have children of their own. That's just a disgusting term.

[janx]

220. What term would that person use to descibe old people?

Foot rot?? Mouth rot?

[Touchdown]

111. See, it does have permanent deleterious effects.

And it isn't their choice. It's the choice of their temporary guardians/stewards.

The Jewish practice and the entire meaning behind Jewish circumcision is blood sacrifice. As in it should be something important lost. It should be painful. It should be diminishing. Otherwise the bond between the Jew and Yahweh have no meaning.

You being done in the 1940s was about curbing masturbation and lack of daily bathing. Not disease prevention.

[MineralMan]

114. Well, if it was about

curbing masturbation, that didn't work well at all on me when I hit puberty. And we bathed daily in our house. I still do, thanks.

In any case, I'm going to have to cut my participation in this thread short. I have a meal to prepare.

[Touchdown]

119. Exactly.

It does not curb masturbation, so it should not be done.

Wasn't such a long walk to agreement there, was it?

[phleshdef]

153. LOL. Seriously. Curb masturbation. At 9-10 yrs old, I thought I had INVENTED masturbation.

The fact is, if you aren't cut and you aren't kept clean enough down there, you can get urine and other things trapped in the hood, which turns your penis into a cesspool waiting to get infected.

[janx]

154. That's basically what my father told me when I asked

him about the subject shortly after his grandson was born.

[Touchdown]

159. Cesspool waiting to be infected.

Must be sad that you were taught that it was sinful to play with your cock in the shower.:eyes:

[phleshdef]

165. Cleanliness is an issue from the moment of birth. I had no urge to wank it when I was 2-3 or even 5.

And little kids can not, in general, be trusted to keep themselves as clean as they should. So unless mommy is gonna wipe your penis out for the first 6-7 years of your life, you are better off getting a little snip.

[Touchdown]

167. Not there, it isn't.

The foreskin is fused to the glans in childhood, and only separates between the ages of 5 and 9. Nobody should forcibly retract an infant's penis. The foreskin protects him from fecal matter and urine in diapers. No special treatment is needed.

The open wound of a fresh circumcision is a huge cause of infection in the first weeks on life.

And it isn't a fucking "little snip". It's the skin surface of a 3x5 card and 70,000 erogenous nerve endings he may want to have when he discovers playing with it.

[phleshdef]

171. There are plenty of valid scientific studies that say just the opposite.

I really don't care about the health reasons for myself anyway. I'm just GLAD I was circumcised. I'm glad it was done when I was a baby so that I wouldn't have to worry about deciding to do it myself later in life. And most of all, I'm glad my penis doesn't look like a slimy corn dog with the top ripped off.

[Touchdown]

173. No there isn't.

Every one of those studies you call "valid" are riddled with flaws so that all of the conclusions have qualifiers to their language.

"May help" "Could stop the spread of" "Possibly indicate that" etc. Go ahead, read them.

No medical, pediatric, or urological society in the modern world recommends routine infant circumcision. Not even the doctors who did the Africa HIV study went so far as to recommend it. If you want to bring up the UN or CDC, then You bring up orgs. run by political appointees, not doctors.

And I'm not talking about you. You can justify your dick all you want. It's too late for me as well. I'm talking about boys born today, so that they don't have to resent it like me, or search for bullshit justifications to be happy about it like you.

[phleshdef]

174. LOL. You resent your own cock. You got issues.

I don't have to search for any bullshit justifications. My penis works like champ.

[Touchdown]

181. I didn't say that's what I resent. You don't get it.

It isn't about your cock. Bully for you. Works like a champ.:eyes:

I resent that a part fo me was ripped from my body, without my consent, violating my rights to ownership of my own body, my automony of my person and the theft of my property, all before I was able to protest or fight it.

This is why it's done to infants, so that the violation is forgotten. If it was done to 16 year olds without their consent, there would be a lot of Menendez brothers around. It's not parental rights. It's control of infants and cultural pedophelia.

[phleshdef]

185. Cultural pedophelia? Seriously?

Ok, I'm admittedly poking the bear on this topic for my own amusement. But you are going WAY over the top. It wreaks of someone inventing a reason to feel sorry for themselves.

[Touchdown]

188. Yes. Cultural Pedophilia.

There is no medical justification for this. None.
There is only cultural routine and habit, and as you admit about your corn dog, aesthetic reasons for it.

Aesthetics in sexual terms is called fetish. Much like pircing, tattoos and other body amputations. Since this "It looks prettier that way" fetish is performed largely on new borns, then this fetish falls under the category of pedophelia.

[dionysus]

243. do you hate your parents for this?

[Touchdown]

245. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

:hi:

[dionysus]

247. i'm just trying to understand all the lashing out at ppl you're doing in this thread

:hi:

[Touchdown]

248. Ummm. No. You're not.

:hi:

[Touchdown]

259. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me. Thank you.

[Bonobo]

266. It's a valid question.

You obviously have "mommy/daddy issues".

That's why I say you sound like a very non-advanced person emotionally.

I think you should look into getting some help with your very obvious issues before you do further harm to yourself or someone else.

Rage is not good for you. Worse even than circumcision!

[Touchdown]

268. Now you are starting to stalk me.

First the abusive pop psychology, and actively seeking out my posts to fuck around with.

And for the record. This is the way I talk on DU. Whether it's being a gay "pony wanter", an "Apple Fanboy", an "Obama hater", an electric car defender or other issues I care maybe a bit too much about. One thing that sets me off is bullies. Making pop psychological assessments of strangers is bullying. Repeating it 3 times to the same person is stalking.

You said your peace. See you later.

[Bonobo]

272. You can always put me on ignore.

Otherwise, boo hoo, too bad.

You talk the way you talk, so do I.

Actions have consequences. So do big mouths.

[Touchdown]

274. You can always find a hobby.

like skinning cats.

[Crunchy Frog]

227. Amazing how ignorant about this stuff people are

when they've never had one themselves and never taken care of a child who had one.

[Mariana]

269. The same thing could be said for females, of course.

Gunk accumulates just as rapidly if it isn't thoroughly washed away. And as you say, little kids can not, in general, be trusted to keep themselves as clean as they should.

I wonder how often women and girls who have had their labia and/or clitoral hoods removed get yeast infections, compared to those of us who are intact.

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

246. I respectfully ask that you stop stalking me and asking about my penis size.

I am not interested in your advances. Thank you.

[Renew Deal]

208. You might be right about "butcher tools." Check out this image from the Mohels site!

http://www.hasofer.com/html/img/ProSupplies/68601.jpg

[nemo137]

218. That's an *actual* butcher's tool

The paged linked includes tools for all kinds of ritual work, not just mohels, including items for copying the Torah, and slaughtering animals in keeping with Jewish dietary laws.

[jgraz]

113. Meh... it's no skin off my ... um...

:hide:

[SoxFan]

130. ...

:spray:

[AnArmyVeteran]

120. I guess that means penises will now have a 'longer' life expectancy :)

[SoxFan]

125. Damn it, you've persuaded me!

But I have a question. How should I take the appropriate corrective action?

[Fumesucker]

147. I would go with a hot melt glue gun..

[geardaddy]

132. There's gotta be a funnier headline to use...

"Rate of Circumcisions Cut Dramatically in U.S."

"Circumcision Market Flaccid"

Huh? Huh? :D

[Touchdown]

138. Sort of like "The gays received a blow from The Obama Administration Today..."

;)

[Fumesucker]

146. You didn't read the thread...

Sharp Cut In US Circumcisions Noted

:)

[potassiumnitrate]

136. Circumcision is wrong, any way you look at it

I don't really care that it may be part of a certain religion or religions. Many religions make women second class citizens, and they're not right either. I don't mean to compare circumcision with female mutilation or condoned rape or any other thing, but the analogy that just because it's in a religion doesn't make it right still stands.

Nobody has the right to remove another person's foreskin without his consent. Period. It's wrong.

[tjwash]

139. ...

[TK421]

156. Finally! Great news for the economy....

[Vehl]

160. i consider infant circumcision as a form of child abuse, cos the child has no say.

I'm glad to see the decline of this practice

:)

[janx]

168. The child has no say in anything at that point.

The child can't talk. Parents have to do what in their opinion is best for the child. So your analogy isn't true.

[Touchdown]

176. That is the crux of the issue.

That parental responsibility should not extend to permanent body modification of a healthy body part for cultural or even dubious "preventative" reasons. This is a cultural habit, not a dire medical emergency.

[janx]

177. It is neither one.

Are you a parent?

[Touchdown]

186. It is.

I am not a parent, but I do not have the complete genitals I was born with. Who's fault is that?

Do you still have all of your genitals, American Woman? If so, then you need to steop down from the high horse and stop telling me I should be appreciative that some butcher hacked me up as a baby.

[janx]

201. I didn't tell you anything of the kind.

If you are unhappy with the lack of foreskin on your penis, I suggest you take this up with your parents instead of some anonymous people on a message board.

[Touchdown]

213. You don't get it.

It's too late for me. I want this barbaric prcatice ended in our so-called enlightened country. I am quite happy that les and less people are doing it, but I am not going to shut up until it hits zero. It's about future children, not me.

And you asked me if I was a parent, as if that is the ONLY POSSIBLE direction this argument should take. You and your intact female genitals, protected by law can sit high and mighty lecturing me on this issue is beyond insulting.

[janx]

221. You know nothing about me, let alone the state of my genitals or body.

Being a parent is not the only argument, but it is an important one.

Again, please don't talk to me about my body. As a female, I'm tired of that.

[Touchdown]

222. Do me and other males the same courtesy.

It's our dicks. You and other TEMPORARY GUARDIANS leave them alone.

The parents should have no right to butcher a child. It's his body. It's his choice.

[janx]

223. Again: If you are upset or discouraged about the nature of your penis,

then please talk to your parents, not people who post on an anonymous message board.

[Touchdown]

229. Again, I am not.

I Told you that before. This is a human rights violation, as I see it, and thus a human rights issue. Your attempt to belittle it as a personal problem of mine is obfuscating the actual issue.

[janx]

236. No, it is a very personal matter.

Take it up with your folks.

[Touchdown]

244. Why do you want this to continue?

[Vehl]

250. Thats exactly the reason why we should not take liberties with the child

Just because the Child cannot talk does not mean it foreswears the right to parts of its body.

If your line of reasoning has any say..then one could also extend it to include any part of the child....
Where does one draw the line when it comes to body parts?

making judgments about the future of a child without its consent is a form of child abuse.
let them decide later on if they want to do it or not.

[Touchdown]

260. Forget it. She refuses to acknowledge that argument

To her it's all about "Mommy issues" and everything is beautiful and wonderful in genital mutilation land.

But this is good news, and people like her are a dying breed, so it seems that it is worth talking about.:toast:

[handmade34]

163. Oh good

an opportunity to share this great picture I got of an uncircumcised

[MineralMan]

200. Musrooms! I love mushrooms.

Morels especially. Who'd think that something that grows around dead trees could be so delicious. We're blessed with lots of morels here in Minnesota.

[handmade34]

204. watch out for the

false ones

these are the only wild ones I dare eat

[MineralMan]

206. False morels are easy to identify. Once you've seen one,

you know it immediately.

I don't care for puffballs all that much. I've eaten them, but they leave me cold. The only 'shrooms I actually collect to eat are morels. They're plentiful here if you know where to look, and I do. I have a wooded area within walking distance of my house that always produces a good crop and is never picked by anyone. Paradise.

[handmade34]

217. I feel that way about

fiddleheads yummm... pickeled fiddleheads, sauted fiddleheads, steamed fiddleheads, stir-fry fiddleheads... I used to have a great area of fiddleheads all to myself before I became homeless...

[HopeHoops]

166. Hell, we decided 20 years ago that we wouldn't mutilate a boy that way.

We ended up having 3 daughters (eldest is 19 and going into her 2nd year of college). Still, we wouldn't have done it and our doctor agreed with us.

[cynatnite]

172. Our daughter and her husband broke from family tradition...

They did not have their son circ'd. My mother was appalled. I have no idea why, though.

Our son is circ'd. If we knew then what we know now, we wouldn't have done it.

I'm not convinced that it slows the spread of AIDS.

[Desertrose]

190. Same here...I wouldn't have either.

Knowing what is known now, I wouldn't have had it done for him.

[Confusious]

178. I am so glad we've solved all the other problems in the world.

Now onto the big stuff, like this.

[Touchdown]

193. Yeah, human rights is so petty and minor.

:eyes:

[Confusious]

194. Seriously, I don't really see it

I'm circumcised, never really bothered me one bit. Wasn't till I was 30 that I heard some guy whining about missing a little skin on his pecker. That guy needed mental help, not a foreskin.

I really don't have much of a problem with sensitivity either. Before the anti-depressants, I could have done with a little less.

And it really doesn't compare to female circumcision either.

Much addo about nothing.

[Touchdown]

195. Way to be dismissive.

Nice of you. "Seek help". Perfect answer for everything you don't understand. How liberal.:eyes:

[Confusious]

196. I call it like I see it.

Sometimes the nicest thing to to do is to put things blutly, otherwise people don't get the point, or they ignore it.

Dancing around the issue just causes the problem to continue. That's not very "liberal" to allow someone to continue to suffer.

That not only goes for other people, I expect that from my friends. You seek help, I'm there for you. You don't, I might not be.

[Touchdown]

210. Uh'huh.

But allowing barbarism to continue on American infants while we smugly tell the rest of the world how to be civilized is not insanity. Gotcha.:eyes:

Now, seeing a shrink may be good for the man you knew, but the doc is only going to tell him that his resentfulness is valid. He's only going to learn how to channel it properly. So your dismissiveness was most likely helpful to him... just not in the dismissive condescending way you hoped. Depending on how long ago, he probably pities you now.

[Confusious]

263. I guess I should have said it was an article I read

His resentment was valid? How can you miss something you never realized you had? I can remember events from when I was 3 years old, which is a hell of a lot better then any friends I've had in 40 years. I can't remember being circumcised. Since memory doesn't form until 3 years old, saying I blocked it out is bullshit.

My father had grey eyes, my mother blue. I have brown eyes. Should I be resentful because I never had grey or blue eyes?

No, I seriously doubt that. Americans substitute serious introspection with physical comforts.

This guy saw he was missing a little skin, and decided it was the solution to his problems. Right now I bet he's still wondering what is missing in his life.

[Renew Deal]

214. Ummmmm

[Confusious]

179. Dupe.

[LiberalAndProud]

202. Does anyone besides me remember the

Dr. Laura / Dr. Dean wars on this topic?

Dr. Dean said, unless for religious reasons, no need to circumcize.
Dr. Laura said, hygiene and health and Dr. Dean don't know nothing.

Days and days of it. It was funny. Having never given birth to a boy, I never had to make this choice for my son. When my grandson was born, I sided with Dr. Dean when asked, because I agreed with his general world view.

It isn't an easy decision for a parent to make these days. I am glad that it is no longer routine procedure and some thought goes into the snip.

[janx]

205. I find it hard to believe that Howard Dean would engage

a radio talking head on any topic. What rag told you that this happened?

[LiberalAndProud]

207. Oh dear!

:rofl:

Sometimes I forget that all our personalities are political.

No I meant Dr. Dean Edell. It was in the days when I still listened to talk radio. I heard it myself.
Sorry for the confusion.

[Renew Deal]

212. You tell Howard Dean to keep his hands off my penis!!!!

:rofl:

[Radical Activist]

215. Well that's a phrase you'll never hear coming from

...oh nevermind. :evilgrin:

[Touchdown]

216. Actually Dean doesn't want to touch you.

It's Laura that wants her hooks on it.

[krabigirl]

211. that's good. i guess my son won't be a freak then.

[SoxFan]

219. Could be worse

http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-carpenter-hack-job-and-12-other-penis-accidents/

[Crunchy Frog]

224. I'm proud to have contributed to that drop

when my twin boys were born last year. :toast:

[janx]

228. CRUNCHY!

:loveya:

Congratulations!

[Crunchy Frog]

230. Thank you!

[wicket]

226. WOO HOO!

[xchrom]

232. I think of uncircumcised dicks as having lace curtains.

Who doesn't like lace curtains?

All in all I'm glad I'm circumcised.

[Orrex]

276. No you're not.

You're traumatized and emotionally scarred by this savage butchery inflicted upon you by your cruel parents.

You're just lucky that your friends on DU are so eager to help you realize the depth of your psychological injury.

[Bonobo]

249. This issue tells more about how many judgmental fucks there are than anything else.

Why do so many people care about other people's business?

Bunch of morally bunged up judgmental fucks.

Some people need to get a microscope and find a life.

[lumberjack_jeff]

252. But whatever you do, don't call it genital mutilation. People might then think it's a bad thing.

[Touchdown]

261. Yeah. They might even post their own pity thread

crying that somebody called their peenee "mutilated".:rofl:

[Name removed]

267. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

270. More abuse and stalking.

I am under no obligation to serve you with anything.

[Renew Deal]

277. Figures this gets moved to the dick dungeon

:evilgrin:

[xchrom]

281. dick dungeon? i need to spend more time in here. nt