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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:06 AM
Original message
Fatigued by a Fake Disease
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 10:07 AM by HuckleB
Reading the whole piece is really necessary to get the full story...

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=7775#comments

"One of the realities of being a pharmacist is that we’re easily accessible. There’s no appointment necessary for consultation and advice at the pharmacy counter. Questions range from “Does this look infected?” (Yes) to “What should I do about this chest pain?” to more routine questions about conditions that can easily be self-treated. Part of the pharmacist’s role is triage — advising on conditions that can be self-managed, and making medical referrals when warranted. Among the most common questions I receive are related to stress and fatigue. Energy levels are are down, and patients want advice, and solutions. Some want a “quick fix,” believing that the right combination of B-vitamins are all that stand between them and unlimited energy. Others may ask if prescription drugs or caffeine tablets could help. Evaluating vague symptoms is a challenge. Many of us have busy lifestyles, and don’t get the sleep and exercise we need. We may compromise our diets in the interest of time and convenience. With some simple questions I might make a few basic lifestyle recommendations, talk about the evidence supporting supplements, and suggest physician follow-up if symptoms persist. Fatigue and stress may be part of life, but they’re also symptoms of serious medical conditions. But they can be hard to treat because they’re non-specific and may not be easily distinguishable from the fatigue of, well, life.

This same vague collection of symptoms is called something entirely different in the alternative health world. It’s branded “adrenal fatigue,” an invented condition that’s widely embraced as real among alternative health providers. There’s no evidence that adrenal fatigue actually exists. The public education arm of the Endocrine Society, representing 14,000 endocrinologists, recently issued the following advisory: “Adrenal fatigue” is not a real medical condition. There are no scientific facts to support the theory that long-term mental, emotional, or physical stress drains the adrenal glands and causes many common symptoms.

Unequivocal words. But facts about adrenal fatigue neatly illustrate why a science-based approach is a consumer’s best protection against being diagnosed with a fake disease.

...

Adrenal fatigue shouldn’t be confused with adrenal insufficiency, a legitimate medical condition that can be diagnosed with laboratory tests and has a defined symptomatology. Addison’s disease causes primary adrenal insufficiency and usually has an autoimmune cause, with symptoms appearing when most of the adrenal cortex has been destroyed. Secondary adrenal insufficiency is cause by pituitary disorder that gives insufficient hormonal stimulation to the adrenals. Some liken adrenal fatigue to a milder form of adrenal insufficiency — but there’s no underlying pathology that has been associated with adrenal fatigue. That’s actually a common method of disease invention: take a real disease and claim that it exists in a subclinical form, though of course it lacks a single unambiguous sign or symptom. We are supposed to believe that it’s still a serious problem even though it is, by definition, so mild that it is undiagnosable by any physician.

..."



-------------------------------------------------


In other words, the snake oil out there is more than just the supposed "cures" sold with great hyperbole. It's also diagnoses that don't exist, and which don't help individuals in their quest to improve their health.

:(
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. recommend
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Do you remember
The Body Type diet book? I wonder if this started there? Adrenal types supposedly suffered from 'adrenal fatigue'.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It appears that The Body Type diet book came out shortly after the book noted in the article.
My guess is that there is some overlap. Thanks for sharing. I'd not been exposed to those books yet.

:hi:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Where there's money to be made, any disease can be created.
"I'm tired a lot." Sheesh...who isn't? Life's tiring. If you're depressed at all, you're tired all the time, too. There are a lot of reasons for being tired a lot of the time. In some cases, a lifestyle change can fix the problem...a little more sleep, eating decent food on a regular schedule, eliminating one or two stressors. In others, it's more difficult. Depression is often treatable with medication, but you have to go to the doctor for that and pay for a prescription.

It's tough. So, the "alternative health" folks and others see this and figure they can cash in on it. A big fat niacin pill will make you think you have more energy for a while. Some Red Bull might make you feel less tired, too. So, they invent a product and maybe even a bogus diagnosis to help them sell that product. The product doesn't even have to actually work, since the placebo affect will make folks feel better...for a while, at least. Then, they'll buy a different product, so you might as well create several.

It's one of the worst rackets that modern society has come up with. Lots of money. Cheap crap you can sell for big bucks, and consumers with something common to almost everyone. What could be better? So, the quacks jump on this kind of thing with both feet, every time. And P. T. Barnum's slogan is proven true once again.
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BuddhaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. Big Pharma creates disease so they can cash in
it's a big racket :puke:


Big Bucks, Big Pharma
Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs

"Big Bucks, Big Pharma pulls back the curtain on the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry to expose the insidious ways that illness is used, manipulated, and in some instances created, for capital gain. Focusing on the industry's marketing practices, media scholars and health professionals help viewers understand the ways in which direct-to-consumer (DTC) pharmaceutical advertising glamorizes and normalizes the use of prescription medication, and works in tandem with promotion to doctors. Combined, these industry practices shape how both patients and doctors understand and relate to disease and treatment. Ultimately, Big Bucks, Big Pharma challenges us to ask important questions about the consequences of relying on a for-profit industry for our health and well-being."


http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=224
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. What diagnoses "created" by BIG PHARMA have ICD-9 codes?
What diagnoses have been "created" by BIG PHARMA period?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Adrenal Fatigue Is A Common Symptom of Morgellon's Disease /nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Um, adrenal fatigue IS adrenal insufficiency. It's caused by both low
thyroid and hormonal imbalances which always have a direct effect on the adrenal cortex. This bullshit article is attempting to create a controversy where there is none. All three conditions are treated simultaneously. I know this because I'm undergoing treatment for all three through one of the top endocrinologists in the State. Adrenal insufficiency isn't treated with "B-vitamins", as this bit of tripe suggests, it's treated with lifestyle changes that don't require any drugs whatsoever. There is no "snake oil" here, as the author suggests. Big pharma DOES stand to profit by pushing this "it's all in your head" bullshit though; untreated hypothyroid, adrenal and hormonal imbalances cause a massive number of symptoms which usually get treated with expensive anti-depressants, pain killers and other medications that cause side effects which demand more treatments and more medications. Big pharma wins again by faking a fake disease story.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Nope.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 11:13 AM by HuckleB
Please read the article, check the links, and respond to the actual content of the article. Your post makes no sense as a response to the actual content of the article.

Further, as the article noted, adrenal insufficiency is a real diagnosis, while adrenal fatigue is not. There is some very real quackery going on, and the quacks are pushing a false diagnosis.

For more on the matter:

Hormone Foundation Warns on ‘Adrenal Fatigue’ and ‘Wilson’s Syndrome’
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2010/09/16/hormone-foundation-warns-on-adrenal-fatigue-and-wilsons-syndrome/

Fake Diagnosis Fatigue
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2244
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. exactly
This is a fake issue. There is adrenal insufficiency, which is only called adrenal fatigue when the doctors fail to diagnose it. It can be borderline, and the standard tests don't show it, but often the expensive and little used tests do. But insurance may not pay for those. So there are a subset of physicians who know the symptoms so well that they see the hints of problems in the testing that other physicians may ignore. As an example, the reference ranges for the testiing are very wide, and physicians may either ignore the tests in the lower 25% of the range, which are technically normal, but do in fact often cause symptoms.

It all has to do with how aggressively physicians decide to treat borderline results, along with symptoms. There are various treatments for this, and they often work pretty well.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Nope.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 11:43 AM by HuckleB
See the article, it's links and the links in post seven.

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Current Status of Salivary Hormone Analysis
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/54/11/1759

For specific investigations, particularly in psychiatry, stress research, and pharmacokinetics, saliva analysis may deliver equivalent or even better results than blood analysis. The predominant advantage of salivary hormone analysis is the noninvasiveness of collection procedures, enabling samples to be obtained from patients afraid of venipuncture, especially children and phobic patients, without an unwanted adrenal stress response. A disturbing influence of stress-induced adrenal activity is less likely in saliva samples, making salivary glucocorticoid values, for example, very reliable compared to serum values in stress research, pediatric applications, and the diagnosis of Cushing syndrome.


I like to go to the source, peer reviewed literature, rather than relying on blogs.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Nice try.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 02:55 PM by HuckleB
You actually think that something that is barely peripherally related to the possibility of this fictional diagnosis offers something to the discussion?

Come on.

Try again.

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. not at all peripheral
One of the main objections to "adrenal fatigue" diagnosis is the use of salivary hormone levels, which have not *yet* become officially approved by the powers that be (like the high dose flu vaccines, by the way). The difference is that I am not arguing for insurance or Medicare to cover the cost of them, only that people be aware that this type of testing and treatment exists.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank you for proving my point.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 04:05 PM by HuckleB
You have to have something to diagnose in the first place. There is nothing there, and quacks who think they can fool people by talking about some possibility of a salivary diagnostic tool for something that has no clinical basis doesn't change that, You are getting way ahead of yourself in thinking that this offers any evidence of this imaginary diagnosis.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. well, that is just plain wrong
but, like the high dose influenza vaccines, yet to be officially accepted.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Goodness.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 03:59 PM by HuckleB
You are saying it exists because you say it exists. As the OP, and the other articles, with links, show the evidence to back up this claim is just not there, but you just have to keep making the claim over and over again, as if repeating the claim will somehow make it real.

:wow:


PS: Is there such a thing as adrenal fatigue?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adrenal-fatigue/AN01583
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. quibbling about terminology
Adrenal fatigue is adrenal insufficiency, but at a level that is not all or nothing. Basically the same tests are used to diagnose it as adrenal insufficiency, but if there are symptoms they do use lab results that may technically fall into the 95% normal ranges, but still be lower than something like 75% to 80% of people. Additionally they use (usually several, spread throughout the day) saliva tests rather than blood tests, mainly because they are accurate, do not themselves cause stress, and because a patient can use them at home.

There are hospitals that recognize the condition, eg

http://www.huntsvillehospital.org/womenchildren/womenscenter/newsletter/2007/jul07.html

Again, it is a case of where you draw the line as to whether someone needs treatment or not. Some doctors don't treat a person who has symptoms of adrenal problems until they are too ill to stand up. Others don't wait until the patient is that bad off, and would rather nip a problem in the bud.

It is really that simple.

There is adrenal insufficiency-severe, and adrenal insufficiency-milder. The range of testing yields something like a normal curve, as in most tests. Doctors just draw the treatment line on different places on the graph.

Call it whatever you want.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yes, there are quacks out there.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 06:51 PM by HuckleB
How many times does it have to be pointed out to that this is not a viable diagnosis by any standard of research, and is not recognized by professional organizations for that reason?

There is no argument here, except among a few who want to push BS and sell a worthless "cure."

Even the Woo Docs note the reality of this scam:

You Docs: Adrenal fatigue? Addison's disease is much more likely
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2010/10/you_docs_adrenal_fatigue_addis.html

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. ............
http://thyroid.about.com/b/2010/10/28/hormone-foundation-endocrine-society-adrenal-fatigue-controversy.htm

Richard Shames, MD, a graduate of both Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania, and trained extensively with the National Institutes of Health, and is a well-respected integrative physician and hormone expert in private practice for more than three decades. Dr. Shames is also co-author of the books ThyroidPower, and Fat Fuzzy and FrazzledI asked him to comment on the controversy.

Richard Shames, MD: I don't agree with what the Hormone Foundation is saying about adrenal fatigue. Their main point is that "adrenal fatigue" is not a real diagnosis and is not proven by medical science. This is to me is either a deliberately deceptive quasi-truth, or a medically uninformed political turf statement. Any doctor worth his/her salt understands that the term "adrenal fatigue" means mild adrenal insufficiency. The Hormone Foundation statement readily admits that adrenal insufficiency IS a real diagnosis. To me, they seem to be denying the possibility that some people might have a mild form of a real diagnosis. That's short-sighted and excessively arbitrary.

Mary Shomon:One of the issues the "fact sheet" discusses is that there isn't a test that can detect adrenal fatigue.

Richard Shames, MD: If the current adrenal insufficiency blood tests were more sensitive, we might not be having this conversation. Current blood tests are good at diagnosing severe forms of adrenal insufficiency, one of which is called Addison's disease. They are not as good at diagnosing the milder forms. Certain people in authority, for whom everything is either black or white - without shades of gray -- have evidently been tempted to state publicly that the diagnosis of mild adrenal insufficiency is "not a real diagnosis."
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. And you found another quack.
This guy is even selling quack books! Do you get it? Of course not.

:rofl:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. The unrecs are here!
:)

I can't quite figure out why anyone at DU would want to support what amounts to a very sick ultra-capitalist scam.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. I am constantly amazed at how many people
are really invested in seeing themselves as sick with some obscure, hard-to-diagnose and impossible-to-treat disease.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. adrenal fatigue is none of those
It isn't obsucre, it isn't hard to diagnose, and it is not impossible to treat.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. It doesn't exist!
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. sure, if you have blinders on
it definitely doesn't exist.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. .
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. A quick perusal of any given message board
Edited on Fri Oct-29-10 08:24 AM by Codeine
will demonstrate that roughly 80% of Americans have Aspberger's, significant thyroid imbalances, and can gain 50 lbs a week while on a strict diet in violation of every known law of thermodynamics. And they've all been assured by the best doctors in the state that these are real conditions, so don't you dare judge them. :crazy:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mayo Clinic: Is there such a thing as adrenal fatigue?
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 04:01 PM by HuckleB
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adrenal-fatigue/AN01583

(Note: This is from the Mayo Clinic, which has a big reputation among those who promote science based medicine for pushing plenty of SCAM therapies, and yet, even Mayo notes that adrenal fatigue is not a viable diagnosis.)
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. You Docs: Adrenal fatigue? Addison's disease is much more likely
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 06:24 PM by HuckleB
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2010/10/you_docs_adrenal_fatigue_addis.html

"Today's hot ailment? Adrenal fatigue, a mash-up of symptoms: sleep problems, digestive upsets, nervousness, aches and pains, sugar or salt cravings, tiredness and more. True believers say it's what happens when chronic stress exhausts the adrenal glands, which sit atop your kidneys, and the glands can't produce enough hormones to keep your systems ticking. The alleged cure: desiccated bovine adrenal gland. Yes, they're from cows. While adrenal glands may fail and not respond to stress or not be able to produce enough hormones, endocrinologists -- experts in all things glandular -- recently dismissed common adrenal fatigue as an "Internet disease." We've seen no scientific evidence that chronic stress damages the adrenal glands and certainly no proof that taking dried cow glands cures it."
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. From that description
it sounds like a unhealthy lifestyle leads to being tired.

Well, yeah.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. As the OP noted, that can be the issue for such vague symptoms.
The point is that this is not a diagnosis recognized by anyone but a few quacks who probably have something to sell, and there is no evidence that it exists.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. I believe Mary Shomon on this one.

There are plenty of people who are misdiagnosed or ignored when they have a dead thyroid or fatigued adrenals. The adrenals and thyroid work together. Most people in the society are so stressed out that eventually their adrenals fail. Thousands of people on the internet talk about their symptoms and how they get dissed by the doctors if they are fat, grumpy, and pass the lab tests for a normal thyroid, but still have fatigue and coldness and tiredness symptoms.

My doctor and NP have ignored my complaints about adrenal insufficiency, and so has an endocrinologist. They just don't want to hear about it. The feeling when you hit the wall, is "I can't deal with reality anymore. I can't deal with people. I can't deal with my job."

I hit that wall over twenty years ago with a physical crash into the hospital with pneumonia. Bacterial pneumonia that was caused by normal flora. That's how run down my immune system was. I was married to a constant nagger. It took only four years of his crap before my body crashed. I was in and out of hospitals and ERs with pneumonia, bronchitis, and all that for about eight years after that. I thought I was going to die, several times. My doctor vacuumed my lungs out four times in five years, because I was literally drowning in my own pus. My lungs were bright red and full of pus, according to the doctor (sorry for the grossness). He said my lungs were full up to the larynx. He saved my life that way. The gunk just solidified, it wasn't breaking up, I wasn't coughing anything up. I'm glad I was unconscious during the procedure!!!

The respiratory techs just could not understand how somebody could be that sick from normal bacteria. They didn't understand how depressed my immune system was.

If medical doctors don't understand a syndrome, or don't want to understand it, they say it doesn't exist.

I'm old enough to remember these authoritative statements from the medical establishment, from the 1960s and 1970s. They have since been proven wrong:

1) Male impotence is strictly psychological, never physical.

2) Little children cannot get depressed. They are not old enough to be depressed.

3) Feeding your babies on a strict schedule is fine. Ignore their cries for hunger! Ignore their cries for attention! They're just trying to manipulate you. They are just scheming little devils trying to get your attention. They'll turn out just fine.

4) Menstrual cramps are all in your head. There's no physiological reason for them.

5) Autism is caused by neglectful parents.

6) Homosexuality is caused by weak fathers and strong mothers.

7) Armour Thyroid is inconsistent in the dosage and should not be given to patients who need thyroid. All thyroid patients only need T4. (They are still spewing this lie in medical schools. Thirty-five years ago I had a board-certified endocrinologist tell me Armour was not consistently dosed. My answer: "I read the label. It says 'United States Pharmacopoeia, Biologically Assayed.')

That means it was tested by an independent laboratory for potency and consistency, like all drugs sold in the United States.

Big shot Board Certified Endocrinologist's answer: Silence.

========
The OP is the biggest pile of steaming medical bullshit I have seen in a while.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com






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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. You can believe whatever you want to believe.
I go with evidence, and the evidence shows that adrenal fatigue is not an actual diagnosis.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Your evidence and mine are different.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Indeed.
I look at plausibility and the actual evidence. I'm not sure what you're looking at besides the claims of someone who's out to make money.
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