USING THE FIFTH AMENDMENT

[Gregorian]

I found this while doing some searching on the fifth amendment. It's title has very little to do with why I find this article of interest. I'm not able to put it into words very well. But having gotten a driving license back in 1972, and experienced the "freedom" we had, and the subsequent ratcheting down into what we have today, I come away from this article with a newly found understanding of something that has been bothering me. Not just driving laws, but drug laws, and many other things, even unrelated to law. Just a sentiment in this country. One that is founded in fear and weakness. There is a basic concept about freedom that is in this writing that is controversial. That's partly why I'm posting it. But I think we've simply given away our freedom, and succumbed to a more or less authoritarian style of law. And after all we've let them have, are we any safer? All of the DUI's that are just barely over some limit. All of the pot smokers who just forgot to hide their pipe. Or even going three miles per hour over the speed limit. Anyways, I'm beat from a long day, and probably making nonsense. Read this. I think it's good. It flies in the face of what almost all of us have taken for granted as common sense.



http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:FN9TnlFpxwAJ:mhkeehn.tripod.com/Secur5th.PDF+%22using+the+fifth+amendment%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

snip-

"A drunk driver, while I don’t condone, support, or sympathize, is
still a person who has harmed no one. And being true to the foundational principles of law, it is
unlawful to cause this person injury through the use of the ‘common force’ that law represents when
that person has not harmed anyone. In doing so we are punishing someone because ‘they might be
going to harm someone’. How ugly can we be? How ugly that an ‘advanced civilization’ would
imprison someone because they might harm someone"

[GodlessBiker]

1. How about shooting a gun into a crowd of people and

not hurting anyone? Does the same rationale apply?

[happyslug]

2. What the police should have done was arrest him

It is ILLEGAL to operate a car without a License. If you do NOT produce it, the Police, upon finding you operating a Automobile, can arrest you. The officers then takes you to the Local Justice of the peace, who will jail you unless you post a bond equal to the punishment of driving without a License. The bond is set to insure your appearance at trial (Roughly the cost of the fine). If Jail time is involved, a higher bond can be required.

That has been the law since Driver's License were introduced. It is based on the same concept involving Discharge Papers. If you served in the Military, and do NOT have Discharge Papers, anyone can arrest you on suspicion of Desertion. You have to show you were separated from the Service. You do that by producing your Discharge Papers. No discharge papers, you can be arrested and charged with Desertion. This policy had been adopted in 1778 as one of the reforms of the Continental Army by Baron von Steuben. Von Steuben transferred the Prussian Military Doctrine to the Continental Army. Notice this was nine years before the Constitution was adopted, 14 years before the Bill of Rights were Passed. The Army did NOT change it policy when both passed for it saw no conflict with either documents with its policy of presumption of Desertion unless you had discharge papers.

Blacks had the same problem in the South Prior to the Civil War. Blacks were presumed, in the South, But not the North, to be Slaves unless they had papers that they were free. No papers, the local Sheriff could arrest them and if no one claimed them, sold to pay the cost of the Arrest. I do NOT know if this was adopted before von Steuben introduced the same policy as to discharge papers, but the similarly is striking.

This person lucked out, the Police Officers involved did NOT want to take this person to the local Justice of the Peace and jail him. The officers were out to give out tickets NOT to arrest people. Many police Departments pay their officers a flat rate for tickets. IN Pennsylvania the State Police Officers are given 1 1/2 hours for each ticket they write. No matter how much time is involved. This is to cover the writing of the ticket AND the Subsequent court hearing. Thus to arrest you and take you to the Justice of the Peace to be jailed till the Hearing, takes up valuable time from writing tickets. That appears to be the case here, the Officers wanted to continued to write tickets NOT drive you to the local Justice of the Peace to be booked till the hearing. Furthermore the hearing in such cases are heard quickly (No one wants you in Jail to long) so you are looking an an Officer coming to one hearing only, instead of the Justice of the peace scheduling ALL of the Tickets at once so the Officers can spend the minimum time in court.

As Whole I would NOT recommend this. All it will get you is an Police Officer mad at you do to lost of income. Sorry pay the ticket. The fifth does NOT apply, for you signed that right away when you agreed to permitted to Drive A car. Remember it is ILLEGAL to drive without a License. No License you can be ticketed and even Jailed. The Officer does NOT need to prove anything more than you were Driving. You have to prove you were licensed to drive. That is why you have a License.