Illegal Immigration

[iquiring mind]

As I read the enclosed linked article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27detain.html?scp=5&sq=illegal%20immigration&st=cse

I was bothered by the fourth paragraph:
In this mostly Latino city, hardly anyone had realized that in addition to detaining the accused drug dealers and mobsters everyone heard about, the jail held hundreds of people charged with no crime — people caught in the nation’s crackdown on illegal immigration. Fewer still knew that Wyatt was a portal into an expanding network of other jails, bigger and more remote, all propelling detainees toward deportation with little chance to protest.

By definition,isn't illegal immigration a crime?

This leads me to ask for help in understanding viewpoints that differ from mine:
1. What leads an individual to feel they are more entitled than the next individual who wishes to come to the United States? Why do they not have to go through the same legal process? (admittedly, this process needs vast improvements, but; it is what it is)

2. Why aren't more first generation (legal) immigrants (and those wishing to become citizens by trudging through the legal labyrinth) more upset and vocally outraged at those who have entered and remained in this country illegally? It's like I'm standing in line for 12 hours for a concert ticket to my favorite band when a group of people simply walk straight up to the ticket window and cut in line. (now multiply this example by 1,000+ to reach the magnitude of what would be my outrage)

Please don't address all the heart felt stories of those who came here to be with their families or who will be torn apart from their families. I'm sure there are many people with similar reasons who have and are currently trying to go through the system to become citizens. I honestly feel for their plight but they are no more special than the next applicant.

[pinqy]

1. Some answers

What leads an individual to feel they are more entitled than the next individual who wishes to come to the United States? Why do they not have to go through the same legal process? (admittedly, this process needs vast improvements, but; it is what it is)

It's not a sense of entitlement but of desire conflicting with ability. The vast majority of illegal immigrants either cannot go through the legal process, or figure their chances (such as in a lottery) are slim. It's not easy for unskilled labor to immigrate to the US, and competition overall is fierce. So some people decide, rightly or not, that their situation in their home country is so poor that even living illegally in the US is better. And for a large number, they're correct. So if you're better off in the US regardless of legal status, and don't think you can get legal status, you might well decide the risk is worth it.

Why aren't more first generation (legal) immigrants (and those wishing to become citizens by trudging through the legal labyrinth) more upset and vocally outraged at those who have entered and remained in this country illegally?

But they are. I've never met a legal immigrant who had sympathy for the illegal immigrants. They do get pissed.

[iquiring mind]

2. More questions

One thing I am trying to learn on this site is to be more clear in my statements.

I can understand somebody trying to get into this country to improve their lives, what I can't understand is why they're are so many groups (including local governments) helping them to both get here and stay here illegally.

The vast majority of illegal immigrants either cannot go through the legal process, or figure their chances (such as in a lottery) are slim. It's not easy for unskilled labor to immigrate to the US, and competition overall is fierce.

1. I want this 'legal process' to filter out those who are criminals in their home country.
2. These unskilled workers entering the US labor market depress the wage rate. This keeps the unskilled workers currently here struggling to earn a decent wage. It also keeps the unemployment rate higher than it otherwise would be.

There are many other reasons why I am in favor of strict immigration and border protection enforcement: healthcare, education and insurance expenses as well as homeland security; but, other than sympathizing with their plight I do not understand why people push for less restrictions.

[Summermoondancer]

3. No, by definition it is a civil violation

which isn´t much different than a speeding ticket. Deportation isn´t the punishment so they say it is administrative.

However, I think that we should reflect on why this occurs...depression, economical breakdown, jobs, and so forth...these are all reasons we pick up and move elsewhere...regardless of what anyone else says about it. If you didn´t have a job and you could not make enough to feed your family you will do whatever is needed to make sure they are fed even if it is going to another country.

I find it positive though that you are looking for answers or thoughts other than your own.

[varkam]

4. Though, if they come back *after* being deported, that *is* a crime.

Illegal re-entry is a federal crime in (I believe) Title 18 of the USC.

[Summermoondancer]

5. Yes, I believe it is classified as a misdemeanor, but

only if they try to come back in a set period of time...for instance if they are deported and excluded for a year from applying for legal entry then if they try to enter after that year my understanding is that it is still considered a civil violation.

However, making people who want to work out to be criminals is patently wrong in my opinion. I think our time would be better spent on dealing with real criminals that are dangerous and not the corn farmer from Mexico that wants to feed his family. We need to worry more about Al Qaeda and MS 13 than we do about him.

[varkam]

6. Yeah - I'm pretty sure it ends up being what you're deported for.

The range of punishments contained within the illegal re-entry statute are pretty diverse - ranging from 2 years imprisonment to 20.

And I think your point about making people out to be criminals is well taken, but it's just systemic in our justice system. We're way too prison happy in this country as a general rule of thumb.

[JustCommonSense]

7. Propaganda framed questions as "they" want you to think....

There is NO immigration issue...

There is only a lack of employer enforcement of hiring illegals...

All smoke and mirrors....

They come for the work - no work - they would not come...


JustCommonSense

[calicowest]

8. Immigration Marriage Fraud

I have 1st hand experience with the U.S. Immigration system. I had married an guy from Israel, little beknownst to me he married only with the intent to defraud to solely to gain U.S. legal status.

Immediately following separation after I discovered he concealed his mental illness of schizophrenia from the medical application that was required disclosure, I reported the marriage as fraud, after 11 months of marriage.

Now, being in Family Law , in Los Angeles, I am before a Jewish Judge who is quite aware of the fraud, however, she has been ruling against me for obvious purpose of showing me she will not rule in my favor to annul the marriage based upon fraud.

My recent discovery has been ex has filed false document with the State of Ca contractor's Board, committed and convicted of tax fraud and deceit, and convicted of domestic violence against me.

I became aware that many U.S. Citizen are use for fraudulent marriages to immigration seeking a change in legal status for residence.

However, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service has look the other way about marriage fraud even when Congress 1986 law has strict rules about adjustment of status for marriage under 2 years. The GAO has statistics on marriage fraud and still nothing is done when it comes to enforcement of the Law.

Mexico immigrants aren't our greatest risk, those foreigners who come to the U.S. on tourist visa overstay and then use the U.S. law to avoid penalties by marrying a U.S. citizen fraudulently. We have do something about this legally.

[monkglenn]

9. Unfair Privileges for Some Illegals, Voiding Citizen Values

I think you make a good point for playing by the rules. I spend most of my life working in areas of poverty, mixed cultures, lots of illegal stuff going on all the time, and our focus was to provide mental and physical health care services. One thing that we found worked was that we had such limited resources that even when we geared up and opened a new program or clinic, it was pretty much filled up by the community members and their families who worked to set it up!

Were we talking about excess resources and how to distribute them, first to the legal, second to the illegal, then logical arguments would be okay, but I found that it was more like storm chasers, working to help poverty illegals kids, and their moms, and legals, and really no one knew in the fury of the chaotic needs what the theory was gonna best be worked out to be.

What we did was roll up our sleeves and open the biggest doors we could, and try to make meaningful analyses and anthropological and sociologically sound planning, then engage local voluntary activists and associations to plug in and build on our mother ship.

I guess you present the conundrum, different than trench work, you really hit the impossible issue on the fault line.

In this area, not telling now, Mexican, Laotian, Viet Namers, South American workers fill the outdoor grunge work in the fields, and while they bicycle to and from the casa there go the INS buses running up and down the expressway to the DETENTION CENTER. The public housing project in the town near the detention center is filled with Latinos in a redneck and old black rural town. White buses of illegals pass by waving at the illegals working like dogs in the fields. Then on Friday afternoon old billy-bob shoots his ex-wife at the bait stand where she works, turns the gun on himself, and after the yellow tape is gone, the Mexican workers there are out of jobs, now illegal, unemployed, and traumatized.

No bleeding heart from me, I see too much ground up guts to worry about tears, people are suffering harder than if they were in hell to keep the nothing they got!