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Burglar stabbed to death after trying to break in house, resident arrested

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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:47 PM
Original message
Burglar stabbed to death after trying to break in house, resident arrested
The Guardian reports: "Suspected burglar fatally stabbed in Salford":

A burglar has been stabbed to death while trying to break into a house, police in Manchester revealed.

The 26-year-old intruder was attempting to get into a house on Ethel Avenue in Salford, Greater Manchester, shortly before midnight on Wednesday when the householder is believed to have defended his property.

The householder, his son and his son's girlfriend have all been arrested. It is believed four men forced their way into the house and were confronted by the residents.


So did the attempted burglar deserve his fate, or was the stabbing too far?
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Look at it this way: If the resident(s) had SHOT the burglar, what would be happening now? n/t
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. This took place in England. Now had it been in the USA ....
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Presuming this is as reported
What's the big deal?

A guy breaks into a house, he should expect the worst to happen if he gets caught.

Not sure why the homeowner was arrested.

Perhaps there is more to this story.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Lethal or potentially lethal self defense isn't usually legal in the UK.
Edited on Thu Jun-23-11 01:06 PM by TheWraith
In fact, you can actually be sued there by a burglar for injuries sustained in the commission of his crime, and the burglar will win.

No wonder their crime rate is so bad.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. England is worse than America.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Funny, though, that the quasi-police state they've got over there hasn't helped.
All those cameras, lack of search protections, bans on guns, knives, tasers, mace, and now they're trying to ban glasses made of glass, and you still don't have good odds of being able to walk home without being mugged.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Wow
Considering the laws of self defense in the US arise from English common law, this is surprising.

I find it hard to believe that the use of reasonable means to defend yourself from imminent attack is illegal.

But since I know next to nothing about the current state of the law in the UK, I am at your mercy.

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. US and UK laws have diverged radically on quite a few points...
Self defense being one of the major ones. But in the end, in many ways it all traces back to the Bill of Rights' protections for privacy and against government intrusion. It's why the UK government gets away with insane breaches of privacy against it's citizens, as well as creating a national security state that makes any application of that phrase to the US look almost laughable in comparison. The UK doesn't have a fourth amendment to guarantee that you're not being spied on by the police, no first amendment, no ninth amendment--and what they DO have is the Official Secrets Act, which basically says that anything the government says shouldn't be talked about is a crime to discuss.

Another source of the problem comes from the fact that historically, the UK (as well as much of Europe, but particularly the UK, being still based heavily on ideas of royalty) has had concerns about popular uprisings, spurred by communists, anarchists, foreign agents, whatever. This has created an underlying governmental belief system that is hostile towards, and distrustful of, the idea of an armed and independent citizenry, because those citizens could be a threat to the government. And if an armed citizenry is bad, then anyone exercising too much violence, even to defend themselves instead of waiting for the police, is to be viewed with suspicion as a dangerous criminal, rather than someone protecting their home. It's one of the reasons that the rate of "hot" burglaries, performed while the homeowners are actually there, is much higher in the UK than in the US. The burglars know that not only will the people not have any real weapons, but that they can't go too far in defending their home lest they risk being arrested themselves. It's a much lower risk crime.

There's one famous case where--I might have a couple of the details wrong--a group of three young men, teenagers possibly, climbed a metal fence to try and burglarize the home of an old man. One of the burglars slipped and cut his leg badly on the fence. The burglar then took the homeowner to court, and the court ruled that the homeowner had to pay the burglar for his medical bills and distress, because he was cut on the homeowner's fence, even though the young man was there in the commission of a crime.

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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Cool
Thanks for the info.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Was he stabbed in the back while trying to run away? n/t
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. the stabbing allegedly occurred inside the house n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
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