Only Whites/Europeans can be racist

[Hope springs eternal]

Personally, I disagree with said notion, and some disagree with me.


What do you think?

[muntrv]

1. Nope, people of color can be racists too. Mugabe in Zimbabwe is as evil

as the white minority government that was previously in charge.

[It Cant Just Be Me]

69. All can be racist.

Unfortunately the only prerequisite for a racist is to be human.

[H2O Man]

2. Untrue. n/t

[KingFlorez]

3. It's not true, racism isn't racially exclusive

I'm black and I've come across some black people with racist attitudes, some in my own family.

[NOLALady]

24. Racist attitudes towards who

Black people or others?

[lvx35]

4. Yeah, its obviously assinine.

Racism: To give different treatment on the basis of race

The statement: Only people of certain races can be charged with giving different treatment on the basis of race.

Ergo: Because the statement itself advocates different treatment on the basis of race, the statement that only whites can be racist is itself racist.

Its a no brainer.

[Traveling_Home]

5. Can a male boss be sexually harassed by his female employee?

[HawkerHurricane]

15. Yes

"Sexual Politics", attempting to use sex to gain advancement.
And I've watched co-workers do it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. What is your point?

[hlthe2b]

7. Anyone who has spent time in Asia, knows that racism is live

& well. Color is not the issue, but ethnicity certainly is....Japan is a very overt example....

[havocmom]

8. Bigotry, curiously enough, is color blind

It's bigots who have problems with race

[DemBones DemBones]

9. Anybody can be racist. Women can also be as

sexist as the most sexist male; they're the ones who think they're superior to other women.

Obviously, white people have often persecuted people of color but the English also sold the Irish into slavery, and at lower prices than were paid for African slaves, which meant that Irish slaves were considered expendable.

People have a gift for hate. It's a sad truth.

Children don't hate until they're taught to, so if we could stop people from teaching hate, we could end prejudice. Don't ask me how to do that, though.

[acmavm]

10. And the point of this thread, if there is one?

[bluestateguy]

11. Anybody can be racist, but racism is more dangerous when the racist is a person with power

Racism should be condemned no matter who is espousing it, but racism is more dangerous when the racist is a CEO or a politician, rather than a gas station clerk or a bagger at a grocery store.

[vincent_vega_lives]

60. True

but anyone that has been to rural West Virgina will know that the color of one's skin does not necessarily indicate power.

[mcscajun]

12. I think *anyone* can be racist. The only issue I see: Is there any power

behind it to enforce negative outcomes on others? This will vary greatly by race, location, time and circumstance, and generally, whites/Europeans have not and will not share the negative outcomes in anything approaching the degree that Blacks or other people of color have and do. That said, even some Europeans coming to the US had to deal with racism historically: "Irish Need Not Apply", etc.

Obviously, in the US, racism by whites against people of color, Blacks and Native Americans in particular, has had and continues to have tremendous power. In my 55 years, I have witnessed a variety of racist attitudes and actions in many different directions and degrees of intensity in my NYC neighborhoods, schools and workplaces, and I continue to see it in action here in NJ. I know it doesn't flow from only one source or in one direction. Still, I see and hear incredible contention over the issue, both here and in academic and political circles. I doubt the question will ever be resolved, but continually argued.

I hold that we are all harmed by racism in action and/or racist attitudes, to varying degrees. That said, I would never, ever put my experiences up against any who have been oppressed by white racism, EVER. How could I? My perception is of course, filtered by the fact that I am Irish-German-Norwegian-American; i.e., "White".

[Adsos Letter]

17. George Fredrickson did an excellent analysis of these issues

...in his book "Racism: a Short History". One can have "racist" attitudes, but the real danger arises in the power to exploit perceived differences, combined with the belief that these perceived differences are believed to be hereditary and unchangeable.
Historically, these categorizations have led to segregation, expulsion, or attempts at extermination.

[Hope springs eternal]

13. I made this thread becuase

Some stuff I've been reading is really wacked out. There seems to be a core group of civil rights activists that seem to have taken hold of this notion.

A good example is how come Ray Nagin could say "Chocolate City" while someone saying "Vanilla City" would be fired immediatley?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. Do you consider yourself to be a victim of racism because of this?

[Hope springs eternal]

16. I wouldn't say "Victim"

I think "victimhood" is an overused pathology, but that's for a different thread....


Anyway, I do feel like White America kind got a cold slap in the face. For generations, we've been told the horrors segregation, redlining and housing covenants have done to hurt the African-American community and I truly believe we as a nation are doing our best to heal from such horror and mend what happened. But to turn around and publicy and without any seeming remorse declare that you prefer one race of citizen over another is bullshit and an affront to the White communities efforts to rid it's own of such appalling ideology.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. White America needs a cold slap in the face

Color me less than impressed by our community's efforts toward healing and mending. The attitudes displayed toward Katrina victims, and the things some of my Caucasian co-workers would say about them when they thought no one was listening were simply appalling. The fact that GOP politicians still use race-baiting and code words to get elected and I see it still working like a charm. What do you think is meant by references to "welfare queens", "rappers", and "gangbangers"? Whom do you think those politicians want their listeners to think of when they use those terms?

Oh, but Ray Nagin said something you found vaguely insulting. GMAFB.

[Hope springs eternal]

21. Katrina is a different animal altogether.....

Katrina showed some of the best/worst humanity has to offer. As far as the "color" of the disaster, one could throw the same charge at DU. I have seen zero threads on the Mississippi or Alabama relief efforts, which affected more White areas (but still alot of Blacks too)

As far as what your co-workers say, yes, they're racist animals. But if you're judging a whole group of people by your "co-workers", then you're in the same boat as them. I'm sure they would turn around and say "well, look at the looters/arsonists" and judge all Katrina victims by that measure, so don't be like them.


Also, you still haven't answered the question at large. I am curious to know your answer.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. My answer is it depends on the context and how you define racism

rac·ism –noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


If you define racism as simply #3, then indeed anyone can be racist. But if your definition of racism necessitates the presence of institutional and systemic weight behind prejudices such that the dominant group has the power to impose them on other groups by force of law or custom, then it would really only be possible here in America, for Caucasians to be racist. And because my definition of racism does include those conditions, then my answer is that I disagree with you.

Sorry, I don't feel discriminated against by what Ray Nagin said and yes, I would see a difference if some white politician opined about creating a "Vanilla City".

Here's an excellent essay on the subject:

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/content/2002-06/24wise.cfm

[Hope springs eternal]

23. I would agree with you on number 2

But 1 can and has been used by other races. One famous moment during the 1970s, a sports broadcaster felt Africans (American or not) were more physically gifted in the realm of sports. There's many a claim of muscial and lingustic superiority among Africans as well. Of course, then there's Asians in math and ideas that "Bi-racial is more beautiful" and so on and so on.

Your previous post was an example. If you believe the very nature of white skin makes one racist, then you fall under number 1. Anything that attaches a trait/action or idea to a skin color can fall under number 1 ("Blacks dance better", "Whites have good hair", "Asians are smart", etc).

And as for number 2, If a Non-White person finds themselves in a postion of power and proceeds to use that power against someone's who is white (example: Latino city-council member turns down request for a buisness license for a white person), then I think number 2 goes down as being legit as well.

[cambrianexplosion2]

51. Whites are more likely to be dominant, but not always

Hope springs eternal hit the nail on the head. Whites *in general* are dominant in american society, but there are instances in american society where non-whites have power over whites and over other non-whites. In these instances, definition 2 counts. Categorically saying that whites are dominant and therefore non-whites never have enough power for their racism to have consequences is simply untrue.

[sepulveda]

48. what ray nagin said

was that new orleans should remain a chocolate city

fact - new orleans has historically had a very high %age african american population.

ray nagin was opining that post katrina, many whites might move in and change the nature of the "chocolate city" such that it no longer had that "flavor" so to speak.

he was lamenting that.

if a mayor of a majority white city lamented the idea that blacks might move in and change the character of that city from a "vanilla city" you can be damn sure people would be outraged.

the classic postmodernist/extraspecialview is that only whites can be racists because only whites have "power". that's absurd on a # of fronts, but it's gospel and has been for a long time for a LOT of people

it's one of those dumb concepts that gets repeated ad infinitum in academia until its accepted without question

and fwiw, of course ray nagin has power. a hell of a lot more power than 99% of whites do - as mayor of a major city.

regardless, racism sucks, and i don't care what race the racist person is who espouses or practices it, or how much power he has or doesn't have. of course racists with POWER are more dangerous. but a racist is a racist regardless of power.

nobody should get a free pass.

[noamnety]

46. Are you kidding me?

"White America kind of got a cold slap in the face"???

You mean like how white America lives disproportionately in poverty, disproportionately gets pulled over by police, how people won't even do a call back on the resume if the applicant's name sounds too "white" ... I could go on and on and on here.

I'm looking at poverty rates, death rates, incarceration rates ...

Please do not tell me we are having a thread about how white America has been so poorly abused. (random pissed off cursing)

Poor Oppressed Privileged People threads are pathetic. "We as a nation are doing our best to heal from such horror and mend what happened."

No, we are not doing our best. We are spending our entire budget on a racist war abroad. We have stories glorifying the rescue of a freaking Iraqi dog in the Washington Post like it's a sign of the great compassion and goodness of the American spirit - a fucking national story about the resources used for rescuing a DOG while we systematically caused the deaths of a million and a half Iraqi humans under Clinton, and people are still saying what a great time that was for America, and now a million more dead Iraqis are the result of BushCo.

Are you getting this? White America is singing the praises of rescuing a dog from halfway around the world while we don't give a shit about a half million dead children, because they weren't White, and you are whining because you feel like White America's been slapped in the face?

What the fuck.

[NOLALady]

25. Maybe I'm missing something here.

I've heard that DC is referred to as CC, Chocolate City. I've never heard any complaints about that. We all know that no one is trying to exclude anyone from DC.
I simply assumed that Nagin was referring to the fact that NOLA was a predominately Black City and he wanted to see ALL of the citizens return home. I am quite certain that Nagin wasn't advocating the exclusion of others. Some (A Lot)of Nagin's best friends are White.

I also do not believe that anyone would have been fired for saying Vanilla City, unless the meaning was to exclude others.

[Hope springs eternal]

27. You did not just say that?

Some (A Lot)of Nagin's best firends are White

LMAO. You know damn well someone would be utterly fired if they said "Vanilla City".

[NOLALady]

29. I just figured

that TPTB would not see it as a big deal. They would pretend to be offended but they would downplay it pretty much as they have downplayed the nooses in the Jena tree.
Somehow, I don't see the term "Vanilla City" as damaging as folks who see noooses as a childhood prank.

[Hope springs eternal]

31. Bringing up Jena

Does nothing to bolster your argument. Of course there are racist ass white people, we don't need Jena reminders to know that. And if your going to talk about it, talk about the whole story, which if I recall saw some malfesant actions on the part of the AAs involved as well.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. You're suggesting that the Jena 6 themselves were racist?

That's interesting.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. "Chocolate City" is a pop culture reference.

It's a song from Parliament.

"Chocolate City"

Uh, what's happening CC?
They still call it the White House
But that's a temporary condition, too.
Can you dig it, CC?

To each his reach
And if I don't cop, it ain't mine to have
But I'll be reachin' for ya
'Cause I love ya, CC.
Right on.

There's a lot of chocolate cities, around
We've got Newark, we've got Gary
Somebody told me we got L.A.
And we're working on Atlanta
But you're the capital, CC

Gainin' on ya!
Get down
Gainin' on ya!
Movin' in and on ya
Gainin' on ya!
Can't you feel my breath, heh
Gainin' on ya!
All up around your neck, heh heh

Hey, CC!
They say your jivin' game, it can't be changed
But on the positive side,
You're my piece of the rock
And I love you, CC.
Can you dig it?

Hey, uh, we didn't get our forty acres and a mule
But we did get you, CC, heh, yeah
Gainin' on ya
Movin' in and around ya
God bless CC and its vanilla suburbs

Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya! (heh!)
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!
What's happening, blood?
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!

Yeah!
What's happening, black?
Brother black, blood even
Yeah-ahh, just funnin'

Gettin' down

Ah, blood to blood
Ah, players to ladies
The last percentage count was eighty
You don't need the bullet when you got the ballot
Are you up for the downstroke, CC?
Chocolate city
Are you with me out there?

And when they come to march on ya
Tell 'em to make sure they got their James Brown pass
And don't be surprised if Ali is in the White House
Reverend Ike, Secretary of the Treasure
Richard Pryor, Minister of Education
Stevie Wonder, Secretary of FINE arts
And Miss Aretha Franklin, the First Lady
Are you out there, CC?
A chocolate city is no dream
It's my piece of the rock and I dig you, CC
God bless Chocolate City and its (gainin' on ya!) vanilla suburbs
Can y'all get to that?
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!
Easin' in
Gainin' on ya!
In yo' stuff
Gainin' on ya!
Huh, can't get enough
Gainin' on ya!
Gainin' on ya!
Be mo' funk, be mo' funk
Gainin' on ya!
Can we funk you too
Gainin' on ya!
Right on, chocolate city!

Yeah, get deep
Real deep
Heh
Be mo' funk
Mmmph, heh
Get deep
Bad
Unh, heh
Just got New York, I'm told

Mayor Nagin was reflecting on the rich African American heritage of New Orleans. If you think that means he's racist, then I don't think you know what the word means.

[Adsos Letter]

18. The Japanese certainly exhibited "cultural racism" in their attitudes during WWII.

[emilyg]

19. Not true.

[NOLALady]

26. You might be interested in the following

http://www.blogladder.com/entries/4331

"As for the analogy with a white leader demanding the retention of a vanilla majority in his town, the two scenarios are not even remotely similar, precisely because of how racism has operated, historically, and today, to determine who lives where and who doesn't. For a white politician to demand that his or her city was going to remain, in effect, white, would be quite different, and far worse than what Nagin said. After all, when cities, suburbs or towns are overwhelmingly white, there are reasons (both historic and contemporary) having to do with discrimination and unequal access for people of color. Restrictive covenants, redlining by banks, racially-restrictive homesteading rights, and even policies prohibiting people of color from living in an area altogether -- four things that whites have never experienced anywhere in this nation (as whites) -- were commonly deployed against black and brown folks throughout our history. James Loewen's newest book, Sundown Towns, tells the story of hundreds of these efforts in communities across the nation, and makes clear that vanilla suburbs and towns have become so deliberately. "

[Hope springs eternal]

28. You're basically saying only whites can be racist.

Has it occured to you not all white places are all white by purpose. A lot of European settlers came to the Midwest while slaves were in the south. Hence many farm communites are all white.

More double-standard bullshit.

[NOLALady]

30. Nope. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying you might be interested in reading the article by Tim Wise.

Common sense tells me that there are racist non white people. But, I don't know of any in power with an ability to make policies to damage and/or destroy others.
Maybe you do, but I don't.

[Hope springs eternal]

32. South Africa

Mugabe's white removal policies in Zimbabwae.

[NOLALady]

33. I wasn't thinking outside of this country.

But as for the Zimbabwe policies, I viewed them as revenge rather than "Manifest Destiny". I could be wrong.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cambrianexplosion2]

54. In a nation of 300 million people you don't think any racist minorities have power?

There are 300 million americans and 40 million blacks. Surely you must believe that there are some with power that are racist. The lack of knowledge about them is no reason to believe they don't exist out of 100 million non-white americans. There are racist non-whites. There are non-whites in power. Surely there are some people that are members of both groups.

Now I will let you know of an instance of non-whites in power causing whites harm in an overwhelmingly black mississipi town:

U.S. Says Blacks in Mississippi Suppress White Vote
"MACON, Miss., Oct. 5 — The Justice Department has chosen this no-stoplight, courthouse town buried in the eastern Mississippi prairie for an unusual civil rights test: the first federal lawsuit under the Voting Rights Act accusing blacks of suppressing the rights of whites."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/us/politics/11voting.html

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NOLALady]

38. Welcome.

Enjoy your stay.

[noiretextatique]

39. only the group in control can practice institutional racism

which is what you're talking about. and as you see, it is (convienently) a topic that is completely foreign to many residents of this country, a place that is only 50 or so years removed from legalized segregation.

[nemo137]

42. And the prize to you, friend.

Only whites can benefit from institutional racism in this country; anyone can be individually prejudiced against people who don't check the same box on the census as they do, however.

[cambrianexplosion2]

53. Ok, so whites can be victims of smaller than national-scale racim

If you define an institution on a national scale, then only whites can benefit from this. But in uncommon (though existing) circumstances, minorities are in charge of institutions (formal or informal), and their racism can be, and has been, harmful to whites on occasion.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

41. what is "racist" about AA and reparations?

your post is a perfect example of the ass-backwards thinking of most white americans regarding anything remotely to do with black people. AA was supppsed to redress the other affirmative action that went on for centuries favoring white men...you know, all that time when black people, women, etc, etc, etc, were denied access to education, jobs, credit, accomodations, etc, etc, etc, by LAW.
do you even KNOW the history and how recently it changed? the ignorance is mind-boggling.,

[McHatin]

49. Both are racist

If AA was supposed to redress the other "affirmative action" that went on for centuries favoring white men, doesn't that mean it is the same thing, just now used to favor minorities? Does not that make it a racist policy? Of course, according to you, it is "justifiable" racism I am sure. Affirmative Action is a form of institutional racism, pure and simple. Many people, however, think it is patently stupid to use racism to combat the effects of racism in the past, and I am one of them. It does do a lot to keep racism alive though. But that's ok with you as long as you get yours, right?

[Soodonim]

43. Racism= prejudice + power

And white people have doing a great job of keeping minorities out of power, so minorities can't be racist.

[FalconsRule]

44. Generally, given that very narrow definition

of racism, I'd agree with you. What about places where so-called minorities are in power?

[cambrianexplosion2]

52. Minorities are not categorically (100%) out of power in the US

There are instances in american life where minorities are in power over whites (though admittedly it is mostly the other way around). In these instances it is possible for them to be racist under the "prejudice + power" definition.

[vincent_vega_lives]

61. That thinking

is a little dated.

[dorkulon]

65. Sorry, that's discrimination. Racism is just a form of prejudice.

Besides that, there are certainly powerful minority individuals who are fully empowered to implement their racism if they have any and choose to do so. It's a silly thing to say.

[Vincent441]

70. You mean like how Barack Obama was kept out of power?

[Zyg]

45. Racism isn't about "White" vs "Black"

It's about difference and a fear that this genetic difference means something.

For instance, in the UK, there was a media interest about 4 months ago about people with Ginger/Orange hair. A family was abused out of several homes by their neighbours because they all have Ginger/Orange hair.

Difference means something.

[Panchojackson]

47. I disagree with the notion too n/t

[Lady-Damai]

50. I disagree in a way ....BF here

I grew up in Northern Italy. I was born in the states but raised in Europe. *My family is not in the military.* I never dealt with racism until I moved back to America. I would say 4 incidents. Three were by colored people and the other one by old Russian jewish lady. White supremacy has a lot to do with racism. World history shows the white race has always felt superior than other races. Each country they invaded....their culture and race was placed above everyone else. No other race was ever equal to them. I'm not saying the white race is the only race that did that.... the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and Arabs also did similar invasions.

Africa before it was invaded by the Arabs and Europeans it was a great continent. Different ethnic groups and cultures were living side by side. Sure there was civil wars for land. But, different African kingdoms weren't going around invading and stripping other nations of their culture. Each continent that the whites invaded the people self worth completely changed. White supremacy destroyed generations of people.

Racism in this modern world has do a lot on past Euro-centrism. Until people start realizing everyone is equal and understanding real world history. Racism will never go away.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[steven johnson]

56. So the Nation of Islam Is Wrong?

According to NOI doctrine, the white race was produced through a series of genetic breeding experiments conducted by an evil scientist known as "Dr. Yakub".

Elijah Muhammad



Of course, the founder of the Nation of Islam, Wallace Fard Muhammad, AKA Wallace Dodd Ford, spent 3 years in San Quentin prior to going to Detroit.

Wallace Fard Muhammad

Wallace D. Fard

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Summermoondancer]

58. All races can be racist

All races can be racist, but I personally think it is silly that someone who is white think it is racist to call someone a redneck or a hick when they are saying ignorant things about another race or a group of people. Redneck and hick are definitions of a certain attitude and have nothing to do with race. You can be any color and be a redneck or a hick.
I also think it silly that those who defend immigration get called racist by people who are anti immigrant it is an oxymoron to call someone who supports immigration of all races a racist.

[ChelseaCenior]

59. I know where I live,

Most white people where I live are cool, if anyone is racist, they hide it well. The African Americans, Asian Americans, Mexican Americans, and so on (Must be politically correct now mustn't I?) typically refuse to associate with anyone outside their racial group (not all, but a large portion of them.) We are all humans and capable of the same feelings, no matter what color you are, you can still hate someone who is different. Conversely of course, you may not care about race, ethnicity, origin, accent, language, etc. and see people as just that. The short answer is yes, anyone can be racist.

[vincent_vega_lives]

62. Black / White construct is racist

The whole concept of Black vs White was created by racists to highlight differences. No human being is the color White, nor Black. We are all different shades of the same color. Any child knows this until taught differently.

We simply perpetuate the racist construct.

BTW we are ALL of African desent...but that's a separate issue. ;)

[DeadEyeDyck]

68. good point n/t

[greggypetty]

63. I Agree, white people aren't the only onew who can be racist

It seems that many people think that only people who are white can be racist. I have met a people in my life who are racist against white people. Also, have you noticed that when a white person commits a crime against, say, a black person, he get a harsher punishment than if a black man did the same crime to a white man. It is called a "hate crime" when the white person does it. I really disagree with that.

[jcarterhero]

64. Not true at all

Believe me, I know from personal experience.

[dipsydoodle]

66. I agree with you - unless maybe you're only talking about the USA.

There have always been more problems in the UK between Sikhs and Hindus , who generally speaking won't even live in the same areas , than between whites and Asians

BTW Asian here means Southern Indian Continent. Orientals here have a preference for being refered to as such : matter of pride to distinguish them from Asians.

[gwashington2650]

67. That's nonsense

ANYBODY can be racist.

[democrat2000]

71. Everyone can be racist

The caste system is an example of extreme racism practiced by non-white people.