CHRISTIANS WANT TO OUTLAW HALLOWEEN TOO!!!!

[Karenca]

From Bellaonline.com:

"Beloved, it is my opinion that Halloween is not for Christians. You may pretend that it's a harmless game for kids, but in reality it represents paganism, Satanism, idolatry, witchcraft, and naturalism! Did you know that October 31st is considered by Satanists to be one of their most important days of the year? Beloved, WAKE UP! Don't honor the Devil! Honor God instead by refusing to observe Halloween this year. The Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't dress innocent children up like the devils of Hell and march them around town, so why should you? Are you a TRUE follower of Jesus Christ? Then SKIP Halloween this year and tell others to do likewise!

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Eph. 5:11)
"The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." (Rom. 13:12)

[Cyrano]

1. I think we should outlaw Easter.

Do you know how many people buy bunnies for their kids and days later. the poor bunnies are dead.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

30. Not to mention the human sacrifice vibe n/t

[bowens43]

2. These people are dangerous.

They are actively seeking to establish a theocracy. They are every bit as dangerous as the Taliban. They want to control every aspect of our lives. They want the bible to be the law of the land. They won't stop until everything that they consider to be evil is banned and everything that they consider to be good is mandated.

[atreides1]

13. They Won't Listen

And since they won't discuss the differences between us, and refuse to work on a compromise, then there is only two ways to stop them.

One way is at the voting booth, but I doubt that will work, so that leaves only one other way to prevent these people from establishing a theocracy.

And it has nothing to do with being nice!!!

[MichiganVote]

3. Uh oh, better watch out Proctor and Gamble

[mark11727]

11. Snopes has the lowdown on P&G...

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/procter.asp

(edit because the graphic link doesn't work...)

[whosinpower]

4. Remember the outcry over Harry Potter?????

I do - perhpas it will be banned altogether under the new theocratic rule we seem to be enduring.

[demodonkey]

5. This has been going on for over 20 years...

I used to be in 4-H as a kid; we actually had to drop our Halloween party for a few years due to one nutball, born-again so-called Christian parent screaming bloody blue murder that they were teaching the kids to worship Satan.

[Cha]

6. Halloween is "All Hallow's Eve"..

The night before "All Saints Day"..

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01315a.htm


Excuse me, but they are so full of shyte!

[ktowntennesseedem]

43. Most fundies are Protestant, know nothing about All Saints Day

So much of this kind of anti-halloween talk comes from extremist evangelical Protesants. Although they'll gladly join with conservative Catholics to march against abortion or gays, just like they joined efforts in the voting booths last month, it will be interesting to see them try to unite on other issues. That kind of Protestant will have nothing to do with Catholics, and when they start really getting serious about the precious little theocracy, it will be fun watching them fight over whose version of a theocracy they will have.

God forbid we ever acheive anything like the theocracy they dream of, but in the long run, to see them begin to work toward that warped goal might just be the best thing that could happen.

Y'all just go on fighting amongst yourselves; just let us know when you're though so that real Americans can come in and clean up the mess.

[proud patriot]

7. Oh I'm terrified of naturalism myself

yes that was sarcasm

[starroute]

16. Doesn't naturalism have something to do with nudist colonies?

Not much of that around in late October.

[d_b]

8. Freaks

[Coyul]

9. Maybe they should dress up as Christians....

....and lynch someone, or perhaps burn them at the stake...because Goodness know's that what Jesus would do.

I hope there is a hell...just for those who believe in it...they have spent so much time creating it, they should enjoy the fruits of their labor! Don't ya think!

Oh and Christian folk who might be offended...please read
Revelations 3:16-18......

Put up or shut up as it were!

D

[wryter2000]

10. Ignoramuses!

Satan has nothing to do with Wicca. The holiday is completely Christian -- the eve of All Saint's Day.

These assholes are going to overstep, I think. I hope I get to watch them fall flat on their faces.

[Djinn]

19. It PRE-DATES Christianity

The Druids, believed that on Hollow's Eve (Samhain) Saman (the Lord of the Dead) called his evil spirits forth. The Druids lit fires to ward off the evil spirits.

It was also the ending of the Celtic year and when the dead revisited
their earthly homes on that evening.

In the 9th century All Saints day was changed from May 13th to November the 1st to help convert Scotish and Irish Celts to Christianity

Halloween just like Easter and Christmas are NOT Christian celebrations but ones they took over and "converted"

[PaganPreacher]

23. No, not "lord of the dead."

Samhuin/Samhain is not the name of a "lord of the dead." That is Christian crap!

The word "Samhuin" literally translates to "summer's end" in Scots Gaelic.

Want a source? See: http://www.witchvox.com/holidays/samhain/1031_samhain_history.html

Samhuin fires also served a practical purpose. Two bonfires were set, herbs were burned on the pyre, and livestock was led between the fires (through the smoke.) The smoke killed parasites, and prepared the animals to be brought into barn or house for the winter (yes, the Celts and earlier Picts kept their farm animals in the house in the winter.)

Disclosure: I am a Celtic Pagan, but not a witch or Wiccan.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Djinn]

25. Samhain

actually is derived from (probably) samhraidhreadh which means summers end but the festival wasn't just about summer's end, The Feast of the Dead(Féile na Marbh) was held on Samhain and it was the day that the barriers between the dead, the not yet born and the living could mingle.

We actually don't know all there is to know about Celtic festivals and Celtic culture in general much of our "knowledge" is no more than a guess, but there was definelty a "death/spirits" connection to Samhain it's just that doesn't mean "evil".

There is even conjecture as to whether this actually was a new year/new season festival at all.

Modern paganism has made decisions on some areas of Celtic life that archeologists and historians are unable to, for example Samhain doesn't translate to summers end in Scots Gaelic, it may be a abbreviated form of samhraidhreadh but it may just as easilly be something else.

Dislosure - Scottish atheist forced to take Gaelic lessons as a kid

[PaganPreacher]

26. I stand corrected!

Thanks for the correction, and the accurate translation.

I had based my statement on McBain's Dictionary of Scots Gaelic, which says "samhuinn" means "Hallow-tide", probably orginated with "Sam-fuin (summer's-end)" and is same as the Irish "samhain."

I am familiar with some of the tales of the veil between this world and the next, of the thinning of the veil at Samhuin, and of some of the mythological characters who crossed between worlds.

I agree with your assessment of the disconnection between the real Celtic cultures and popular Celtic reconstruction. I try to use authentic sources in stuidying Celtic life, and avoid the popular Pagan materials (our Llewellyn Publishing Co. is notorious for publishing falsity and fancy in the name of Paganism.)

My source for the story about Samhain fires was an anthropology text I had at university several years ago. It may have been the interpretation of the author on a poorly-understood ancient activity.

I have run into the "lord of the dead" story several times (the first time sourced to a popular US Catholic website). Like a hydra, it seems to have many heads, and steadfastly refuses to die out.

From what part of Scotland are you? My direct ancestor emigrated from Wigtownshire to Nova Scotia in the 1820s (and not by choice, as I understand it.)


The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Djinn]

27. Edinburgh girl myself

the Celtic influence is probably more my mums side - she's from Shetland and spoke gaelic until going to school - i still can't understand her when she's on the phone to her mum sometimes even though they speak "english" it's heavilly accented and the gaelic slips in there.

Not really that knowledgeble about Celtic culture - just what I've read and it all seems to contradict! All I know is that all the "Christian" holidays aren't Christian at all so it annoys me to see people waffling on about "spoiling" the real meaning of Christmas/Easter etc :)

[PaganPreacher]

28. Contradictions, and holidays

I think one of the reasons that "Celtic culture" is contradictory, is that there were so many different cultures called "Celtic."

Dozens or hundreds of tribes spread out from the Danube to the French/Spanish border, up through Normandy and into the British Isles. Add in the passage of several centuries, and the influences of other groups that conquered, married into, or traded with those Celtic tribes, and what we (Americans) think of as "Celtic" becomes a huge mash of different beliefs, practices, and histories.

In addition to the romaticized Pagan Celtic stuff, we also have our own American traditions of the Scots-Irish immigrants. Our bluegrass music is directly descended from the ceilidh.

I keep the great holidays more fervently than most Christians. For our Samhuin, we built two fires, made music, and greeted our ancestors and lost loved ones. While neighbor kids were running around dressed as pirates and Power Rangers, my son and I kept the fires burning and talked about his ancestors, and mine. It also seemed like the right time to answer the penultimate child's question, "What did you do in the war, Dad?"

For Yule, we will have a nice tree, a feast and gifts, and celebrate like kids. I love all the holidays, and celebrate them all!

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[TaraMoon]

36. Samhain

Cattle were led between two fires so that the smoke would
ritually cleanse and/or protect them in much the same way that
various contemporary pagans use smoke (often sage) to cleanse.
I seriously doubt that you could get a cow to stand still long
enough to be "smoked" to the point of ridding them
of parasites.  However, that doesn't rule out the possibility
that they believed that a quick walk through smoke would serve
that purpose, as well.  But I think we underestimate ancient
peoples' ability to reason. If the parasites were still there
after the walk through the smoke, as surely they would be,
it's unlikely that they used it for that purpose.

As you probably know but perhaps others don't, November 1st
was the start of the Celtic New Year and it makes absolute
sense that there would be a celebration in conjunction with
this. However, the Celts measured days from sundown to sundown
so their November first began on what others would regard as
the eve of October 31.

The poster who was forced to study Gaelic was likely given a
Christianized interpretation of early Celtic traditions.

Christians are soley responsible for attaching their Satan to
Hallowe'en.

[PaganPreacher]

41. Smoked cows :-)

It's good to talk to you, TaraMoon!

Exactly as you say, Christians have attached all notions of Satan to Samhuin/Hallowe'en. Scary that it has been the dominant thought for so long.

I also agree that the Celts, and other ancient people, were well-reasoned and practical. That reason and practicality would logically extend into their religion.

My theory on the evolution of religious practices in aboriginal cultures is that the "holy" purpose came about because the practice was effective. To apply that to our discussion, the religious use of fire and smoke on livestock (and humans) developed its ritual purpose because there was a tangible benefit to it. Cows and sheep that were smoked would have been healthier through the winter, and the people assigned a religious reason for that because it worked.

The initial practice may have been a long smoking of the animals, which was reduced to a ritual "walk between the fires."

Wormwood (Artimisia absinthia) had ritual use, to "call the dead," but it is also an effective insecticide. Smoke of Yew leaves (Taxus bacatta) repels flying insects, and was used by the Norse and Celts to communicate with the dead (according to one Norse source, to raise them as well.)

Here is a good page for quick reference on herbs:
http://www.cauldronfarm.com/herbal/herbal.html


The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[TaraMoon]

44. Thanks for the link :)

Your reasoning regarding the practical efficacy of herbal
smoking evolving into the ritual practice makes sense. Thanks
for the link. :) 

[Karenca]

12. These religious freaks----

they really don't deserve to live...
Happy to be in a blue state, but I am sooo ashamed of America now.

[hlthe2b]

14. No, "CHRISTIANS DO NOT WANT TO OUTLAW HALLOWEEN TOO!!!!

A bunch of "christian" in-name-only fundie hypocrites want to outlaw Halloween too.

There is a definite difference!

[TaraMoon]

37. "Christian in Name Only Fundie Hypocrites"

If non-Fundie Christians don't want to be lumped with Fundies,
I suggest that they stand up on their hind legs and OPENLY AND
CONTINUOUSLY AND LOUDLY speak out against them. I've yet to be
in a public place when a fundie starts their rant and
witnessed a mainstream Christian stand up and speak against
it.

The onus is on mainstream Christians to not only speak up
personally, although that's vitally important, but to demand
that their clergy and their church hierachies take unequivocal
stands in opposition to the Religious Right. 

Has your church leader spoken out from the pulpit? In public?
Has your church taken an official stand?

  

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. We protest the fundies all the time, but such efforts get even less press

coverage than Dennis Kucinich's campaign did.

How often do you see fundies standing up and ranting? I haven't actually seen one doing that in public in about two years, and I refuse to drive all the way out to the suburbs to confront them in their megachurches.

[Bert]

64. Your definition of christian

How do you know who is and who isnt a 'real' christian. What is your definition of what is a christian? Does it basically mean those I disagree with are not real christians? All christians, or people who call themselves such, basically do a pick and choose with the bible. Unless you claim to have a direct pipeline to god you cannot know who the real christians are. For all you know Torquemada was a real christian and you are not.

[billyoc]

15. Damn, what am I going to do with my

"Torquemada, Grand Inquisitor" costume now? :shrug:

[Ranec]

17. Wear it to church! n/t

[renaissanceguy]

18. How about banning Christmas...

It's become all about greed, presents, and gluttony, anyway.

Most people don't even go to church on that day, and if they do, it's because they feel obligated, not because they want to.

[Jackie97]

20. All Christians are not against Halloween...

not even all fundamentalist ones.

In any case, I didn't read anything in your post that shows where they actually want to outlaw Halloween. It looks like they're simply encouraging parents to skip Halloween with their kids. Some Christians have an alternative night to Halloween. Some of them have parties at their churches (where some of them dress up as biblical characters, but that's still better than nothing). What pisses me off though are these Christians that come up with the Hell House, where they show kids "babies" being killed by an abortion, homosexuals killed by AIDS, etc. Now, that's disgusting.

[TaraMoon]

38. "Left Behind" series = Hell Houses in book format

The "Left Behind" book series and movie(s?) are Hell Houses in book and film format. If you haven't seen them, you should. They have children's versions of the books (at least the first one). Clearly, they're are designed to instill terror.

[GSanon]

59. isn't it funny that video stores carry LB in the satanic horror section?

next on the shelf to the Omen, 7th sign, 9th gate, etc...

[Jackie97]

21. Oh, come on guys!

Can you actually show where these fundamentalists are wanting to outlaw Halloween? Can you?

[sangh0]

32. I guess the Fundies aren't the only ones w/"faith-based" beliefs

.

[Jackie97]

33. Exactly.

There's a reason why fundamentalism is dangerous. It's dangerous because it's blind ideology that demonized everything the other side does and makes it out to be more than it us. Fundamentalism is against questioning what the people on your side are saying. Fundamentalism is about valuing ideology more than facts.

In this case, the "Christians" are being demonized by being falsely accused of wanting to outlaw Halloween. The facts don't even show that the fundies want to outlaw Halloween.

[TaraMoon]

39. Faith-based beliefs

There's a world of difference between having a faith-based
belief that you know is a belief unsubstantiated by fact-based
evidence and having a faith-based belief that you can't
distinguish from fact.  

And there is a further, and even more important, difference
between simply having a faith-based belief and believing you
have the right to force others to believe it and comply with
its dictates.

[sangh0]

42. I agree with all of that

.

[Jackie97]

45. I agree.

"And there is a further, and even more important, difference
between simply having a faith-based belief and believing you
have the right to force others to believe it and comply with
its dictates."

I agree, so can somebody *please* show me where these anti-Halloween fundamentalists are trying to outlaw Halloween? It seems to me like they're just encouraging other parents to do what they're doing. Those parents don't have to listen.

[TaraMoon]

46. Fundamentalist Attempts to Ban Hallowe'en

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/48/story_4828_1.html

This link leads to an article about successful attempts by
fundamentalists to have Hallowe'en celebrations banned in
schools.  They've been quite successful in stopping
celebrations of what is clearly a secular holiday. It is part
of the successful strategy of the Religious Right to take over
school boards and local government positions.  When they
succeed in getting even one or two of their people in these
positions they create such a ruckus that the rest of the
school board members take the path of least resistance and bow
to their demands.

Fundamentalists have been doing far more than encouraging
other parents to follow their lead. They are making steady
progress in forcing their beliefs on others, one step at a
time. And the mainstream Christian churches are doing nothing
to stop them.  I'm not sure that they've succeeded in having
cities ban public Hallowe'en celebrations and
trick-or-treating outside of school, but I'm betting that will
soon be the case.

Call schools in your community and find out whether they allow
Hallowe'en celebrations and, if not, when they stopped and
why.  You'll be surprised.  

The ancient pagan origins of Hallowe'en have been so distorted
that Hallowe'en has no more to do with Samhain than a carton
of eggs has to do with Oestre (pagan origin of Easter).

[sangh0]

48. So they are NOT trying to OUTLAW Halloween

They're trying to get the celebrations out of schools. Good, because Halloween celebrations don't belong in schools. Even better, it will make the other (non-fundamentalist) Christians resent them, and less likely to support them in the future.

[Jackie97]

53. I've been thinking about this....

and I really do think that it's different in the schools than in the rest of life.

We liberals demand that we not have teachers leading prayer or having Christian gatherings for the whole school that the minorities would be coerced into. That's because it disrupts education; education which is paid for with everybody's tax money (not just fundamentalist and mainstream Christians). We're protecting the minorities by not having this stuff.

Likewise, I think it's important to protect the minority fundamentalists or children of fundamentalists in schools. The truth is that fundamentalist kids can become the class targets or be coerced when the school holds Halloween celebrations that clearly would be exclusive of far fundamentalists like themselves and their parents.

Just like it's important to protect the minority atheists and Jews or the kids of them who attend a school; it's important to do the same for fundamentalists.

The schools need to be a place that are inclusive of everybody and exclusive of nobody. We don't need programs or anything else that can get minorities coerced or harassed into doing something that might go against their beliefs. We don't need something that would disrupt the educational process too much.

Schools are meant to be places to learn math, science, foreign language, History, English, and other important subjects. They are not a place of worship, and they are not a place to hold Halloween parties.

We would tell fundamentalist parents who want their kids to know their religion to teach it to their kids on their own. Likewise, parents who want a Halloween celebration for their kids need to either throw one of their own or find one of their own. The public schools should not be used for either. Those are educational facilities paid for by everybody's taxpayer money. Therefore, we need to make sure we accomidate everybody (fundamentalists included) in the best way possible.

[PaganPreacher]

22. Maybe I am missing it,.....

but I didn't see the word "outlaw" anywhere in that bit of silliness. There is a difference between opposing a practice and trying to have it banned by law.

Fundamental Christians are free to be afraid of Hallowe'en- Samhuin isn't for everyone, after all! I certainly wouldn't want them at my bonfire.

Your source was www.bellaonline.com. The site advertises itself as "the voice of women on the web." It has sections on "naturefaiths", including paganism, goddess lore, and Wicca. Those pages are definitely pro-Pagan. It looks pretty evenhanded to me.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[vet_against_Bush]

24. some christians... nt

[seaj11]

29. I don't know much about Satanism, but

I do know that October 31 is the equivalent of New Year's Eve for Pagans. (Nov. 1 is Samhain, pronounced sow-when). And why do these people always assume that everybody dresses their child up as a devil? I saw plenty of princesses and angels out there. Oh, and "naturalism"? For some reason that scares them badly. I posted an article about the evils of naturalism here.

[Not_Giving_Up]

31. I was raised by fundies who thought

that any candy at a Halloween party at school was considered evil. I never got to go trick or treating or anything. It sucked. Of course, the schools now don't have Halloween Carnivals...they have Fall Festivals. No costumes, no haunted house, just a bunch of stupid games that you have to buy tickets to play.

[RiDuvessa]

49. Other holidays changed as well

In all fairness, many schools have also changed their Christmas holidays to be non-denominational as well. They do not use religious Christmas songs at concerts, call it the winter holiday, say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas etc. Many schools also give a spring break instead of an Easter break, and many times the break does not coincide with the Easter Holiday.

[Biased Liberal Media]

51. Same here. My mother is a fundie type

who wouldn't allow us to celebrate Halloween. We were forced to attend church. Well, this started towards the middle of my high school years, and my sibling was in elementary school. Still, I have learned an important lesson from that and do not deny it to my child. We also were not allowed to believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa or Easter Bunny.

And people wonder why I'm Atheist.

[robbedvoter]

34. But, uh, didn't the Christians invent Halloween?

One of them "conversion" schemes - like Christmas, Easter, St Patrick ?
They should get rid of Jesus IMO - he's quite a subversive character if you ask me. All that "poor" talk is dangerous....

[TaraMoon]

40. They invented Satan, too

The Christians invented Satan, too. I anticipate someone
saying that Satan was in the Old Testament but that was
"satan", small 's', meaning adversary. Satan didn't
appear as an individual until the New Testament. And, yes, I
know that Zoroastrianism contributed to this personification
of evil tradition but the Christians own Satan. They can have
him. Like I always say when a Fundie tells me I'm going to
Hell, "It's your Hell, you go there."

[M155Y_A1CH]

58. Hello,

Don't you read the other replies?

[TaraMoon]

35. Religious Right Talk

This is the same bilge that the Religious Right spreads.

[gil ace]

47. letter to schrub

Dear President Bush,
>
>Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have
>learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a
>constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. As you said, "In the eyes
>of God, marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that
>knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
>lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states
>it to be an abomination... End of debate.
>
>
>
>I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
>God's Laws and how to follow them.
>
>
>
>1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
>provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims
>that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I
>own Canadians?
>
>
>
>2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
>21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
>
>
>
>3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
>period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do tell? I have
>tried asking, but most women take offense.
>
>
>
>4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
>pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the
>odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
>
>
>
>5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
>clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
>myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
>
>
>
>6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination
>- Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
>Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
>
>
>
>7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
>defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision
>have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
>
>
>
>8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
>their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How
>should they die?
>
>
>
>9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
>unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
>
>
>
>10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
>crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
>different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and
>blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the
>whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them
>to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with
>their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
>
>
>
>I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable
>expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for
>reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[RiDuvessa]

50. Some schools ban Halloween out of respect for Pagan traditions

I found the following information at the Charlotte Pagan's website "http://charlottepagans.com"

*****

Layla writes "School District Bans Halloween

October 20, 2004

By Kevin Reece

http://www.komotv.com/stories/33602.htm


PUYALLUP - "Let them have their 30 minutes of dressing goofy and having candy," said Silas Macon on the grounds of Puyallup's Maplewood Elementary School Wednesday afternoon.

He'd just learned the grade school tradition of a party and parade in costume during the last half-hour of class before Halloween night won't happen this year in the Puyallup School District for his two daughters.

The superintendent has canceled all Halloween activities.
Click here to read more...

A letter sent home to parents Wednesday states there will be no observance of Halloween in the entire school district.

"We really want to make sure we're using all of our time in the best interest of our students," explained Puyallup School District spokesperson Karen Hansen.

Hansen says the superintendent made the decision for three primary reasons. First, Halloween parties and parades waste valuable classroom time. In addition some families can't afford costumes.

It's the third reason some Puyallup parents are struggling with.

The district says Halloween celebrations and children dressed in Halloween costumes might be offensive to real witches.

"Witches with pointy noses and things like that are not respective symbols of the Wiccan religion and so we want to be respectful of that," said Hansen.

The Wiccan, or Pagan, religion is growing in the U.S. and there are Wiccan groups in Puyallup.

Number eight on the district's guidelines related to holidays and celebrations reads as follows: "Use of derogatory stereotypes is prohibited, such as the traditional image of a witch, which is offensive to members of the Wiccan religion."

"I do lots of things that are not revolving around wearing a black outfit and stirring a cauldron," said Wiccan Priestess Cheryl Sulyma-Masson in an interview with ABC News where she explained that Ricans (or Pagan Clergy) celebrate nature, not Satan.

A Payslip School District internal email dating from October 2000 warns that "the Wiccan religion is a bona fide religion under the law, and its followers are entitled to all the protections afforded more mainstream religions. Building administrators should not tolerate such inappropriate stereotyping (images such as Witches on flying brooms, stirring cauldrons, casting spells, or with long noses and pointed hats) and instead address them as you would hurtful stereotypes of any other minority."

2004, however, is the first year that the superintendent decided to cite that concern, along with loss of classroom study time and protection for students who can't afford costumes, as motivation for canceling in-school Halloween activities.

"They're so worried about being politically correct anymore that we're not allowed to do much of anything," said parent Tonya Reynolds whose daughter attends Maplewood Elementary.

"If you don't want costumes, call it a harvest party," said parent Loni Andrews who promises to challenge the ruling at the next school board meeting. "We don't have to take out complete Halloween. We could still do something for our children."

To say the policy put families in an uproar is an understatement. It's tradition at Maplewood Elementary for the kids to parade their costumes through each of the classrooms.

"The younger children, to come in in their little butterfly costumes or their little clown costumes to me, it's just part of childhood," adds parent Marilyn McCoy.

And the kids' reaction? "Oh they're devastated," says parent Karen Harmes. "They're so disappointed, this is a big deal for them."

"Yeah it does bother me because I would really like to go around and dress up," said Maplewood 6th grader Grace Macon.

"I think it's terrible," added Silas Macon. "I think it just kind of takes away from the little stuff they get to do that's fun at school."

Parents are worried about Halloween, or what's now called Harvest Celebration, and about other holidays.

"I'm afraid next it will be St Patrick's Day," says parent Katie McCoy. "Can we not wear green? Can I not send cupcakes for my baby's birthday? Where does it end? That is my question."

So it's both class time, and respect for real witches. "It's a little bit of both," said Hansen of the study time and religious reasons for canceling Halloween activities. "I don't think you can balance respect with instructional time and we would always be looking to do both. We want to make sure our students are respectful of all religions and all cultures.

Hansen also said that the PTA and teachers have been notified that they can hold parties or other Halloween events after the school day is over. Classroom time, however, will not be used for Halloween celebrations. Hansen says concerns about other holidays and parties held in school will be decided on a case-by-case basis.

Parents plan to appeal this Halloween ban at the School Board meeting Monday night. But the District says its decision is final.

*****

It seems that some Pagans objected to Halloween celebrations in schools because they felt it demeaned their traditions. And the schools respected their feelings. And really, if you consider Halloween a religious holiday, as many in the Pagan/Wiccan religious tradition do, does it have anymore place in schools then a Christian Holiday?

[TaraMoon]

52. Far more likely

I think its far more likely that the Christian fundamentalists
put pressure on the school and the school is just giving
lip-service to the feelings of pagans. I don't know how many
pagans there are in that school district, but I would guess
that they're outnumbered by vocal Christian fundamentalists.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

54. Using pagans as scapegoats

'Cause who would care if an entire community gets mad at a few "PC pagans" because Halloween celebrations at school were cancelled, as compared with telling the truth that it was "pillars of the community" who told the school board that they didn't want Satanist holidays celebrated in their schools.

:eyes:

[RiDuvessa]

56. Facts?

Have you read a news report that backs up your accusations? Or are you just letting your own prejudices out? I linked to two articles in my post showing evidence that this school district banned Halloween celebrations out of respect. The same school has also banned nativity scenes and Christian Christmas hymns from the Winter Festival. Somehow I doubt that Christian Fundamentalists wanted that. If you have information to back your statements, I would appreciate the references.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

57. Just a hunch

Knowing how few pagans are sitting on school boards and how little respect Christians give to pagan belief systems.

[RoachJeep]

60. Wow, Just wow.

What if I said "Muslims are terrorists" because one group of people, who happen to be Muslim, committed a terrorist act?

Would that not be biggoted?

Another person said that for christians to not all be lumped together that the ones who don't agree with those who are extreme fundamentalists the "moderate" christians have to speak out against them publicly.

Why then, don't we hold people of another major religion to the same standards? Is it because it is biggoted?

I am a man who believes there was a guy named Jesus Christ who had some good ideas about how to treat your fellow man which have been bastardized throughout time to forward certain people's agenda. So don't jump on the "you're a Christian, and that's why you're making this argument" train.

The way I see things is that people who are white have no problem labeling a whole group of white people based on the actions of a few white people...but throw a non-white person in the mix, or a non-christian belief in the mix and all the rules change.

[Glassunion]

61. Well Duh...

Don't you get it? :sarcasm:

It's been that way for quite some time... Just look at comedy.

You can make fun of Jewish people... Only if you are Jewish.
You can make fun of Black people... Only if you are Black or Asian.
You can make fun of Asians... Only if you are Asian or Black or Jewish.
You can make fun of Women... Only if you are a woman.
Women can make fun of all of the above.

Everyone can make fun of Whites. Everyone can make fun of Christians... Especially the Catholics.

NO ONE can make fun of Muslims. Way too taboo.

I'm a rare bird as I am a man of color who is not offended by racial humor. It's all in the context and intent. The last white guy who had the balls to make a joke with the scary "N" word in it as part of his monologue, was George Carlin. I near piss my pants everytime I hear it.

I fear that it is white guilt to an extent. The rest is from the Great Wall of P.C... In all honesty political correctness is in my eyes one of the worst things to happen in recent history. Sure it keeps people from offending others, but it keeps them from thinking or speaking freely. No one in this country has a right to not be offended by something. In fact, free speech protects the right to offend. I'm ok with that, as it allows for free thought. And free thought is far more valuable to this nation than hurt feelings.

Remember, they are not sticks and stones.

[jackmccrack]

62. well we can just

outlaw religion?
or maybe celebrate it anyways. hell, some mornings I break the law just by waking up lolol. sometimes right after I wake up as well. what are laws besides words on paper anyway?

[SnapShawt]

63. It Doesn't Say That

I absolutely agree that the sentiment expressed is ridiculous and in itself misinformative. However, your claim that "Christians want to outlaw Halloween too" is also misinformative because nowhere in the original statement is that purported. It simply asks Christians to avoid the practice and observance of Halloween. It does not seek legislation outlawing the day. More power to them as far as I'm concerned, more candy for the rest of us ;)