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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:31 AM
Original message
Strange fossil defies grouping
A bizarre fossil from the early Cambrian Period is baffling scientists because it does not seem to fit into any existing animal groups. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/science/nature/4156544.stm
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is not atypical of the early Cambrian Period
Steven Jay Gould's book: WONDERFUL LIFE details a large number of such creatures found in the Burgess Shales site that bear no resemblance to anything now living.


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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's because Noah didn't have enough room on The Ark
Either that, or those extinct phyla were all "wicked" and needed to be destroyed.

My old Hebrew School teacher told me that the animals killed during the flood were being punished for "un-natural acts." He never explained just what those acts might have been.

Those things remind me a little of those Triops critters they sell next to the Sea Monkeys.



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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. You might recall the wonderfully named Hallucigenia
Paleontologists are still not sure which end is its head....
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Not true anymore
New specimens have revealed that Hallucigenia was illustrated upsidedown. The spines are actually not its legs, but on its back for protection, and the tubey things on its back, are known to be legs now. It's actually not at all as interesting as people had thought, and is known to be an onychophoran worm (with spines). Modern onychophorans are known as velvet worms, and are very close to arthropods.

wrong:


right:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thanks...it's still plenty weird, though....
I found some more info...evidently specimens have also been found in China....

http://www.nmnh.si.edu/paleo/shale/phallu.htm

There was an interesting article in a recent Scientific American about the early Cambrian fossils from China that showed remarkable complexitiy...
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I disagree strongly with Gould's contentions in Wonderful Life
Even when Gould wrote Wonderful Life most of the "unique" organisms he talked about actually had well known associations with other animal groups. Even if they didn't at that time, Gould implies that they are so unique it's a waste of time to try to figure out the relationships.

As a matter of fact though, Gould ignores the fact that most Burgess Shale animals do show a clear relationship to other organisms by conflating crown group characteristics with membership. In other words, even though Anomalocaris and Opabinia are clearly similar to arthropods, because they lack every single character possessed by the arthropod crown of (Insects + Crustaceans + Chelicerates + Trilobites), those two can't be arthropods, and are something entirely unique and special. This obviously works to inflate Cambrian diversity.

Additionally, there is absolutely no data suggesting that the Cambrian explosion actually happened in under 30 million years. Earlier fossil localities of the Ediacaran fauna show organisms that are obviously animals, and the even earlier Doushantou phosphates show embryos of the three major branches of animals (cnidarians, deuterostomes, and protostomes) in amazing detail, as well as adults of a possible protostome called Vernanimalcula. There's actually a very cool article in the most recent Scientific American on this creature.
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I seem to remember that the edicaran fauna
has very little resemblance to anything that came along before or after - however I haven't studied enough to be sure.

And it does look like something remarkable happened during the Cambrian period in an astonishingly short time when compared to the billion or so years life existed before then. Maybe it took 100 million years but again compared to the glacial rate of change prior to that it is remarkable.
But again I have confess I don't know the latest thinking or writing on the matter.

The argument about unique groups or not reminds me of the folks who study early man - some of them split man off into numerous species, some lump them together and oh do they go hammer and tongs at each other. It's one of the things that science does pretty well, nothing is sacred and you are free to question anything as long as you can prove it. If nothing else you learn to be able to defend your views pretty well - or realize you missed something. The ID people would last about eleven seconds in such an atmosphere.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. In my opinion, the Cambrian has been misinterpretted in a number of ways
for a number of reasons. The mistakes that have been made are not mistakes of bad science, but of interpretting things incorrectly based on limitted data.

There are a number of things that are now becoming clear as we move into the 21st century that were not at all clear just 30 years ago, such as:

1) All animal life has a discoverable evolutionary history, and a single 'real' tree can be discovered, and is being discovered. This 'real' tree is somewhat different from the 'trees' that have been proposed prior to the advent of genetic analysis and morphological cladistic analysis. This 'real' tree (and I put real in quotes because it's as real as can be discovered without the aid of time machines) has a number of early, 'primitive' groups branching off very early, the first branch being sponges, the next cnidarians (corals, anemones, and jellyfish), the next ctenophorans (comb jellies). The animal groups that are left comprise a clade known as Bilateria, which refers to (surprise!) bilateral symetry. All modern bilaterians are in one of two groups: Deuterostomata or Protostomata.

Deuterostomes are composed of echinoderms (starfish, urchins, seacucumbers, crinoids, and a number of other weird extinct things) and chordates (which include vertebrates, as well as amphioxus, sea squirts, and graptolites). Deuterostomes may seen like a weird group, but there are a lot of embryonic, developmental, and fossil links between the two major, modern clades.

Protostomes comprise everything else, and are also composed of two major groups, the Lophotrochozoa and the Ecdysozoa. Lophotrochozoans have either an eversible proboscis or lophophore and include molluscs, annelids, deep-sea tube worms, brachiopods (or lamp shells), bryozoans (moss animals), and flat worms. The ecdysozoans are comprised of animals that molt their skin (a process known as ecdysis), and include arthropods, tardigradans, onychophorans (modern velvet worms as well as fossil stuff like Hallucigenia), and some other worms like nematodes and nemertians.

Gould's writing, especially in Wonderful Life, seems to minimize the importance of this (at least to me). He talks about diversity vs disparity and the cone of diversity etc, and totally misses what I think is the point: weird stuff is weird, but it's not so weird that its evolutionary history becomes unknowable. Jeffrey Levinton called this kind of thinking "the evolutionary lawn" approach, as opposed to an evolutionary tree, and I agree with him. By overstating the weird and ignoring the shared features, you overpopulate the Cambrian and overstate the case for a Cambrian explosion.

I also see a parallel between this kind of thinking in evolutionary biology, and the thinking I see in linguistics that the linguistic heritage of some languages will never be known. I think the problems with linguistics may be harder than they are with evolutionary biology, but to say that for instance Basque or Zuni are just too unique to ever know what they're related to is, to me, a silly way to go about science.

2) Taphonomic mode is absolutely the most important thing to be thinking about when looking at fossils of Cambrian or earlier age. For some background, taphonomy is literally the study of burial, and is used by both paleontologists and archaeologists. A taphonomic mode is a somewhat unique way of preservation. Most fossils found in near-shore to off-shore shelf environments are preserved by the same taphonomic mode: hard parts preserved in sand, silt, or lime mud. Ocassionally, there are laggerstatten--sites with fantastic preservation for unusual circumstances--where stuff like soft bodied organisms or soft parts of organisms with hard skeletons are preserved. For example, the feathered dinosaurs in China are found in a laggerstatte.

But, every fossil site of Cambrian age or earlier, was preserved by a "unique" taphonomic mode that became "extinct." The Ediacaran faunae represent soft bodied organisms and were found preserved in medium grained sandstones. The Burgess Shale and related faunae were found in muds, and preserve soft parts in three dimensional detail. This kind of preservation is almost entirely unknown after the Cambrian.

What makes the Cambrian and earlier fossils so cool (and important) is the lack of something called vertical bioturbation. Bioturbation is sediment being disturbed by burrowing animals. No animal built a burrow deeper than 1.0 cm until the Ordivician. This is especially important in the Ediacaran, as the lack of bioturbation allowed bacteria to form very thick, very solid, microbial mats on the surface of sandy beaches in the subtidal zone. Instead of loose sand, these sandy areas were semi-solid gelatenous platforms. When a storm brought in a new influx of sand or mud, this new sand or mud burried the unfortunate organisms and forced them to make an imprint in the gelatenous substrate; actually a lot like a footprint. The lack of bioturbators also prevented these imprints from being destroys.

Because the taphonomic mode of the Ediacaran faunae was so muddied and unclear until recently, people were interpretting the Ediacaran organisms as weird body fossils. This is an incorrect interpretation, as they're really much more like full body trace fossils. Where people previously lamented the lack of GI-tract in Ediacaran fossils, they now realize they shouldn't see them at all.

3) The rock record is more incomplete the farther back in time you go. This isn't actually a new development, but the extent of pre-Burgess Shale incompleteness wasn't realized until fairly recently. Between Ediacaran-type faunae and Burgess-type faunae, a worldwide unconformity exists. This, as well as the assumption that Ediacaran fossils were something weird, makes the Burgess Shale look look sudden and bizzar. Also, prior to the Ediacaran faunae, a tremendous ice-house period existed. The possible only equatorial rocks from that time are a little inaccessable now, as they're high in the Pamirs and Zagros, and most likely deformed or long-since subducted.

SO..... If we look again at what happened before and during the Cambrian explosion, we see something a little different than what Gould wants us to see. Most Ediacaran fossils look a lot like what you'd imagine early animals would look like. Many are very similar to sea pens (colonial cnidarians), and many others look like they belong to to the deuterostome, echinoderm, ecdysozoan, and molluscan clades. Because we now know the fossils are preserving just the outside of the organisms, there's no reason to propose new, unique, and extinct organismal groups for them, and it becomes clear that animals were diverse and plentiful a long time before the Cambrian explosion.

There are some Ediacaran fossils which are genuinely weird and don't at first glance belong to any modern groups (such as Dickinsonia, Pteridinium, and Tribrachidium). This doesn't mean they really were something weird and unique in Gould's sense, but in my opinion, probably belong to stems of groups such as Bilateria.

There are two things that happened however between Ediacaran time and Burgess Shale time: macropredation first evolved, and hard part first evolved (probably as a response to predation). That's it.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks for that post
Edited on Wed Aug-17-05 07:59 PM by htuttle
I learned a lot more from it than I do from most. :)

Though it seems obvious to me now after reading your post, previously I hadn't really even thought about the issue of taphonomy in what we know about the history of life on Earth.

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Excellent post!
> The rock record is more incomplete the farther back in time you go.
> ...
> Between Ediacaran-type faunae and Burgess-type faunae, a worldwide
> unconformity exists. This, as well as the assumption that Ediacaran
> fossils were something weird, makes the Burgess Shale look look
> sudden and bizarre.

Your informative & helpful post brought back memories of tutorials on
this subject (many years ago). Even then the tutor was keen to remind
us that an unconformity is not just a boundary, it is a question-mark
that you should be careful about interpreting.

Thanks again!
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm going to have to check Wonderful Life again
And see what else is out there before I can draw any conclusions.
However, I don't think Gould thought evolutionary history was unknowable - he was a biologist - His point was that something unusual happened during the Cambrian explosion something that has not been seen since. But it's been a while since I read the book however so I can't cite chapter and verse. Quantum Physics and such is I've been reading about of late (you don't get as boring as I am without constant study)
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Gould &c.
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 05:00 PM by DinoBoy
I didn't mean to imply Gould thought that evolutionary history was unknowable (although I can certainly see how it could be read that way). My beef with Gould is that he uses differences and weirdness (disparity) to artificially inflate what happened during the Cambrian. Any minor weird character is taken to be indicative of a new phylum. I think this is silly.

It may just exemplify the differences between phylogenetic and linnean frames of mind. Phylogenetic thinking argues that derived similarities are more important than derived differences, but linnean thinking groups organisms based on derived AND primitive similarities, and makes a big deal out of oddities.

If you want a good read concerning genetic clocks, the Cambrian explosion, and fossil animals around before the Cambrian, check out the last chapter in:

Levinton, J. S. 2001. Genetics, Paleontology, and Macroevolution (2nd Edition). Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. 617 Pp.

As for the rest of the book..... it's uh... about 450 pages of very, very, very dry stuff concerning mostly genetics that could easily have been cut down to 250 pages. The last chapter though, on the Cambrian explosion, can be read without really having read the rest of the book and is very insightful and informative. This is where the concept of the "evolutionary lawn" comes up.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. The question is
what was its cabin number on the ark?
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wtbymark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've learned
Edited on Wed Aug-17-05 08:53 AM by wtbymark
(who knows where) that there were 3 extinction events since the formation of the Earth. With the gene pool that exists now, scientists have calculated that each event destroyed 95% of the existing gene pool. So, the first took 95% out of 100%, the second took 95% of 5%, and the third (the dinosaur extinction event) took 95% of .25% of the original gene pool, what's left? = .2375% of the original gene pool.

on edit: typo
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think there have actually been 6 extinction events
but now I can't remember for sure, shoot
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Not exactly
There have been five major extinctions (end Ordivician, end Devonian, end Permian, end Triassic, and end Cretaceous), and numerous minor extinctions. The largest extinction was at the end of the Permian, and it's been claimed that 95% of all organisms died, but that's been recently shown to be overblown and something more like "only" 80% died.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. the cambrian produced a wonderful
variety of creatures -- this stuff is so cool.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Just a Side Note
"Phyla are defined by an organism having a set of features called characters, and currently there are no animals that we know of which contain the set of characters that Vetustodermis has...."

I had a substitute biology teacher in high school who talked about the "characters" of different species. I always thought he was trying to say "characteristics" and was just uninformed, but now I know that he was using the correct term.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Oh, well, back to the drawing board ... nt
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Strange fossil defies grouping
Strange fossil defies grouping
By Julianna Kettlewell
BBC News science reporter





A strange 525 million-year-old fossil creature is baffling scientists because it does not fit neatly into any existing animal groups.
The animal, from the early Cambrian Period, might have belonged to a now extinct mollusc-like phylum, academics from America and China say.

Other researchers have suggested the creature could represent an early annelid or arthropod.

Details are published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

The 5-10cm-long (2-4 inch) fossil, from Anning in China, had a flattened body and horizontal fins which, researchers think, could have been used to support it as it moved along the sea floor. It also had well developed senses, including a pair of eyes on stalks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4156544.stm
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mark11727 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Give it a top hat and it looks like a Sea Monkey
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:26 AM by mark11727
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teenagebambam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Silly! Don't you know...
...the fossil was placed there by Satan to deceive us!
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kweerwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Obviously it's one of the creatures that didn't make it on Noah's Ark. n/t
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Looks like a flounder
I bet it is good to kill and eat.

Working on a shrimp trawler brings to one's eyes creatures that makes one say WOW! I often wondered how many unknown life forms passed unnoticed. Night trawling for Rock Shrimp in 60 fathoms off Georgia was especially interesting.

180
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. Looks like a slug, but it could be an entirely new specie
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. Looks like...
...some kind of basal spiralian protostome, maybe close to the common ancestry of molluscs and segmented worms (annelids), which would make it related to Wiwaxia, Halkirida, and other "small shellies"
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. Look like an Anamalocaris/ nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Anamolocaris...
...is now thought to have been a proto-arthropod, though, and was a swimmer. This thing looks like a slug-like crawler.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Reminds me of the Tully Monster fossil from Illinois.
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 10:41 PM by benburch
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