Jesus Could Have Walked on Ice, Scientist Says

[tocqueville]

Sara Goudarzi
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com
Tue Apr 4, 2:00 PM ET

Rare conditions could have conspired to create hard-to-see ice on the Sea of Galilee that a person could have walked on back when Jesus is said to have walked on water, a scientist said today.

The study, which examines a combination of favorable water and environmental conditions, proposes that Jesus could have walked on an isolated patch of floating ice on what is now known as Lake Kinneret in northern Israel.

Looking at temperature records of the Mediterranean Sea surface and using analytical ice and statistical models, scientists considered a small section of the cold freshwater surface of the lake. The area studied, about 10,000 square feet, was near salty springs that empty into it.

The results suggest temperatures dropped to 25 degrees Fahrenheit (-4 degrees Celsius) during one of the two cold periods 2,500 –1,500 years ago for up to two days, the same decades during which Jesus lived.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060404/sc_space/jesuscouldhavewalkedonicescientistsays

[sakabatou]

1. Hmmm

[SpiralHawk]

2. Do these guys have too much time on their hands, or what?

I mean, who is paying for this "research?"

Speculation upon speculation yields speculation.

[Poll_Blind]

3. Just...what....is this article's point? No offense to the poster....

I mean, yes, certainly it could have been an isolated patch of ice! And he could have walked along the backs of tame crocodiles. I hear rubbing their belly does the trick. I...I am still a little in awe that grown men and women would spend time on this. I know someone's going to see this as a cruel invective against the scientists....I just don't see why, other than sensationalism, the otherwise dry material has to be gussied up in some messianic relevance.

I

[tocqueville]

8. I think there is a misunderstanding there

What I understand those guys are studying paleoclimates. They found out that under extreme conditions some parts of Palestine can freeze every so many and many 1000 years :

"We simply explain that unique freezing processes probably happened in that region only a handful of times during the last 12,000 years," said Doron Nof, a Florida State University Professor of Oceanography. "We leave to others the question of whether or not our research explains the biblical account."

so the start of the study was climate and not Jesus. But these scientists found that it could have happened in the region where Jesus is said to have walked on water and in the right time scope. Funny coincidence. Or not ?

what are the conclusions :

1) Jesus (if the Gospel accounts are historically right, which I doubt) is a cheat.

2) What's more probable is that local cheats used the phenomenon to convince the masses that they had magical powers. And the feat was rumored.

3) Since the people that wrote the Gospels 100 years after didn't know a shit about the real events but thought that it was a neat story (probably rumoured locally), they put it in their books.

4) we can again reassess that a majority of morons 2000 years after can believe whatever is told them as long it is presented "the right way".

5) if the study had been presented in Europe the average reaction would have been sheer amusement. Presented in the US it becomes deadly serious.

6) if some people seize power in the US, those scientists would be probably burned at stake for heresy.

[rsdsharp]

4. 25 F or up to two days, huh.

You can have 25 degree temps for two months and you won't get ice thick enough to walk on. Let alone as an "isolated patch."

[tocqueville]

5. 4 cm of core night ice is enough to walk on nt

[rsdsharp]

16. You're not going to get 4 cm of ice in two days at 25 F.

Even if you could, only an idiot would walk out on 1 1/2 inches of lake ice.

[INdemo]

6. Salt water doesn't freeze

at 25 degrees F..It would have to be much colder.

[tocqueville]

9. salt water freezes if cold enough (- 2 C) at salinity 3.5%

besides

"considered a small section of the cold freshwater surface of the lake. The area studied, about 10,000 square feet, was near salty springs that empty into it."

and fresh water floats above salt water. And the lake is less salty than sea water.

"Lake Kinneret is a freshwater lake in northern Israel that receives a major part of its salt input from unmonitored springs that discharge through the lake’s bottom. We attempt to characterize the nature of these springs by estimating their chemical composition. While the springs around Lake Kinneret are subject to wide spatial and temporal variations in their ionic concentrations, specific sodium (Na), potassium, magnesium (Mg), strontium, bromine, and lithium to chlorine (Cl) ion ratios are almost constant within individual springs and spring groups. The radium : Cl ratio and the d18O–Cl relationship confirm the notion that the spring waters result from recent mixing between saline brines and freshwater."

http://aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_44/issue_4/1035.html

and it's probable that salinity is lower in Spring, due to fresh water runoff

[Danieljay]

7. Just MAYBE it WAS an actual miracle...would that be such a bad thing?

Yes, it would defy the law of physics but so what? Isn't that what faith is about? And even if it didn't occur, so what? The message behind the myth is just as valuable.

I, personally, find my self just as irritated with those who attempt to explain away myth as those who attempt to prove it literally true. I think of the introduction to Joseph Campbell's book the Power of Myth.

"Myth is man's total response to his encounter with reality and a subsequent effort to secure an existence within the face of that reality"

Whether it be the fundamentalists or the atheists, they are both trying to secure their existance within the reality of their being.

Why can't we just live in the question for a while?

[tocqueville]

10. the problem with the myth-tellers

is that they think that they are a bit former than others. With time they don't like non-believers because it threatens their status. So they use the myth to burn you at stake. Which you cannot accuse most scientist of doing. At least not literaly.

And it has nothing to do with atheism. You can believe in a God, or several and not believe that people can walk on water.

(actually they can, if they run 110 mph)

[Danieljay]

11. they use their interpretation of myth to burn you at the stake...NOT the

truth that the myth often represents.

Myth, is simply a way to portray and explain a universal truth. For example, was Jonah really swallowed by a whale? I doubt it. But it's not a fish story. Its a story about running away from your truth. If one gets caught up in whether or not there really was a fish, they obviously don't get the true meaning of the story.

Storytelling is a lost art as is the purpose of storytelling in the first place. You want people to remember something? Weave it in to a story they can relate to.

[tocqueville]

14. depends a bit about the myth itself

because it doesn't have to be a "truth". It can be a "point of view", interesting one, but still not a "truth". What is an "universal truth" ? not even science pretends to have an universal truth.

but I get your point. The problem in itself isn't that there is a myth of a man walking on water. The problem is that there is people that actually believed it happened.

BTW if you walk on ice, you are literally walking on water. I have done it many times. I don't pretend to save the world for that...

[tocqueville]

12. JESUS SAVES

AND ESPOSITO SCORES ON THE REBOUND!

sorry I couldn't help that one : specially in the ice context

[NNadir]

13. I hate these attempts to explain "miracles" scientifically.

There is, first of all, no evidence whatsoever that the event actually occurred. I note that those who do claim it occurred, say that it was divine.

All this crap is an attempt to attach religion to the higher authority of science. It is nonsense. How about it didn't happen.

[tocqueville]

15. I don't think it was the scientists intent...

but the magazine presents it that way to sell. If you read the article, you'll see that the guys were after climate, not Jesus.

[DrGonzoLives]

17. It's a parable

It's an illustration of the divinity of Christ, that he can walk on water.

Good God, we have diabetes, Alzheimer's, bird flu, AIDS...and people are publishing about this.

[icymist]

18. Why are people so eager to prove or disprove literal religious myths?

Is it really that important that everybody believe the same interpretation of a myth? This is like trying to write a song that pleases everyone; it ain't gonna happen! Now, why drag science into it? The way this article is written discounts how slippery ice is, yet alone floating ice in the middle of a storm with a heavy downpour as stated in the Bible that the author is very eager to prove or disprove. So what? People will still believe what they want to believe.

It all reminds me of a little story told to me a few years back: In a small boat, in the middle of a lake were a Rabbi, a UU Minister, and a Wiccan High Priestess. They were fishing and soon it became lunchtime and the three realized that their lunches were on the bank, about twenty yards away. Well, the UU Minister got up out of the boat and walked to the bank and retrieved his lunch. The Rabbi looked on in astonishment as the High Priestess scolded the UU Minister for not bringing all three lunches. The High Priestess then got up, out of the boat, walked to the bank and retrieved both remaining lunches and handed the, now in shock, Rabbi his lunch. The UU Minister whispered in the High Priestess's ear, "Do you think we should tell him about the rocks?" The High Priestess turned to the UU Minister and said, "What rocks?"