Okay, DU scientists, riddle me this:

[beam me up scottie]

Is the "science" behind Ionic Hair Dryers such as this one (ie: Negative ions will leave hair shiny, silky and more manageable as well as will help to break apart water molecules) advertised on Scienceblog solid, or is it just so much hot air?

Inquiring follicles want to know. :)

[tridim]

1. No idea.. But I like the "Cryo-Kennel" ad

"Don't just leave your pet, freeze your pet!"

[beam me up scottie]

2. Nice.

I'm guessing they mean post mortem?

[neoblues]

3. Can't imagine negatively charged ions causing

water to evaporate from the hair... now I can imagine them to cause particulate matter in the air around your head to fall out of suspension on your head/hair--thus dirtying your hair faster--as well as making your hair a "magnet" for air pollution if it does take on an increased negative charge itself...

[beam me up scottie]

4. Interesting...

But wouldn't millions of irate blow dryer users have demanded their money back with those results?

[Redstone]

8. Well, you said that a LOT more nicely that I did below. Hey, OP, listen

to this guy (or woman). He (or she) is telling you the truth.

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

11. As I said in my other reply,

my latest dryer supposedly used ionic "technology", and as far as I know, my hair didn't get any dirtier than it did before.

[neoblues]

16. The dirt gathering effect...

which is exactly what ionic air 'cleaners' are based on, would be so slight that you wouldn't even notice the effect--unless you had both fairly polluted air AND you left it on, pointing at your hair for many hours/perhaps a couple of days.

As for the drying effect... is any heat produced? and/or is there any air movement (fan forced) produced? Those alone would account for any success drying hair.

Edit: Nevermind...

[beam me up scottie]

20. See, that's the "science" I'm not grokking. (if it actually exists)

There is heat/forced air from all dryers and the two articles I tracked down (after slogging through half a thousand ads) didn't explain why negative ions would prevent the hair shaft from drying out.

[neoblues]

25. Well...

As I see it, there's no reason to think it would work. It's just more marketing and pseudo-science intended to sell products.

I tend to agree entirely with the response by nicwolff in the following link/discussion

http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/6768

while he's responding to a question about a different product/claim, in my opinion, they're one and the same in that they're just using people's willingness to believe stories.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Ahhh,

see that's mostly what I found when I started researching this, the whole "negative ions are healthy" crapola that you get from the asseenontv fads.

I couldn't find much on the hair dryer angle, though.

I certainly wouldn't buy a dryer because of the claims(I was born skeptical) but all the same, I began to wonder where this was coming from.

The Japanese sure know how to sell this stuff, I can't find a decent dryer that doesn't claim to de or re-ionize my hair.

[Mythsaje]

5. Not a scientist

but that sounds like a load of bullshit to me.

[beam me up scottie]

7. I'm skeptical as well.

But the "technology" has become mainstream and few manufacturers offer non-ionic hair stying tools now.

[Redstone]

6. Pure, unadulterated bullshit. Negative ions will NOT "break apart

water molecules." Where the fuck did they come up with THAT outlandish claim?

The ONLY thing that negative ions will do is 1) increase the amount of ozone in the air, and 2) precipitate dust out of the air, and 3) because of the ozone, if you use an "ionic air purifier" (Which, as I said, just makes the crap in the air fall onto the floor), it'll KILL various rubber items (gaskets, VCR drive belts, etc) that you may have in your house.

I don't have the energy to go into the science, but you can trust me on this.

Do not waste your money. Buy a bottle of conditioner instead!

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

9. sigh... I could use gallons of conditioner,

and it wouldn't help my hair in the summer where I live. :evilfrown:

My last dryer supposedly had this technology but unfortunately, it only lasted four months.

[Redstone]

10. Well, I don't know, try bear grease or something. But that "ionic"

hair drier is NOT going to do ANYTHING for your hair.

(I mentions the bear grease because the Indians used to use that as a hair dressing. Also beaver tail fat. Though I don't know where you could buy either one.)

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

12. I can buy lard at the Piggly Wiggly.

But it tends to draw flies when I use it instead of hair gel. :D

[Redstone]

13. Here's a little secret: Go to the part of the drugstore shelf that has

hair products for black folks. Try one of them.

Trust me. You'll have nice shiny hair in no time. Just do not ask me for an explanation, OK? Really.

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

17. Been there, done that.

And honestly, if I wanted condescension from people who know less than I do about any given subject, I'd have stayed married.;)

If it does or doesn't work, I want to know WHY, that's why I posted in this forum.

[Redstone]

18. For Christ's sake, I was NOT being condescending. I was trying

to help you.

I won't make that mistake again.

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

28. Then I apologize.

I asked this on another forum and was bombarded by smart asses (I'm the worst kind, usually) but I wanted to know more about the concept.

[Redstone]

30. Then you're forgiven, and we're still friends. Deal?

Redstone

[beam me up scottie]

31. Deal!

I was just admiring your indignation in the 911 thread, btw.

[Redstone]

38. Which was a bit misplaced, it turns out. But if you want real indignation,

see this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5359953

That one really fried my grits. And this time, I was right to get honked off.

See you around the forums (or should that be fora?)

Redstone

[enlightenment]

14. A nice once-a-week hair "dressing" of mayonnaise and a

egg (mixed together) will help, regardless of where you live . . . neutral henna (no color) will also improve the texture of your hair. Heat just dries it out, hair dryers just speed up the process!

(you wouldn't happen to have a "my 2 cents" smilie I could borrow, would you?)

:-)

[beam me up scottie]

19. LOL!

My mom used to use that recipe!

That was when I lived in Vermont, I had no idea how much happier my hair was in that climate-the worst thing I had to worry about was split ends from the dryness.

I'm considering wigs...

[salvorhardin]

39. I remember my mother used to wash her hair in beer

This was after the shampoo cycle and pre-rinse. She didn't believe in conditioner (I didn't know conditioner existed until college). Anyway, her hair always turned out so silky and smooth. It was like petting a bunny rabbit afterwards. Of course then she permed the hell out of it and made sure that perm lasted by liberally dousing her head in hair spray every morning. I think she could've deflected bullets with her hair.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Ah, I miss those 70's hair styles...

The smell of Breck, the choking on the fumes from the hairspray, a cigarette burning in an ashtray nearby... it's a freakin miracle we lived through our childhoods, you know? :P

[salvorhardin]

44. Heh

The smell of burning and chemicals means mommy's hair is almost done. :-D

[beam me up scottie]

47. Now that I think about it,

I'm way better off than our moms were.

I don't like to put junk in my hair and I don't like to spend anymore than a few minutes on it in the morning.

I'll just keep using the stuff that makes my hair feel healthy and blow dry it into some sort of recognizable blob even if it won't stay that way for more than 30 seconds after I leave my house.

Life's too short to worry about bad hair days. I just have to face my reality and the fact that I'm probably never going to have good ones while I live here.


Besides, if bell-bottoms and hip-huggers can come back in style, rock star hair can't be that far behind, can it?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

53. Have you tried "Frizz-Ease"?

it's a silicone gel. I have waist length hair that goes all dry and frizzy in the summer, unless I use it. It's amazing stuff, and you only need a little. I use less than a quarter size dollop, and I can run a brush through my hair right after the shower. It's a bit pricey, $10 for 1.69 oz, but it will last me a month.

[beam me up scottie]

55. I used the Smoothing Cream before with not much luck.

I'll try the serum next time around, thanks! :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Negative ions will break apart water.

But you're right. It's not going to dry bulk amounts of water off of hair.

[salvorhardin]

45. How does that work?

Dissolving stuff like salts in water breaks apart the salt molecules into ionic components but I'm not aware of a how introducing an ion, say fluoride (which is in many municipal water systems), into water would cause it to break apart into hydrogen and oxygen. If that were so I'd expect that many of our municipal water systems would be spontaneously bursting into flames. Though I could see how that'd save you on hot water heating costs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Simple acid base chemistry.

Add a base to water and you're going to abstract a proton from water and produce -OH.

[salvorhardin]

49. But acids aren't ionic compounds are they?

Like salt, they can be combinations of ions but the acids themselves aren't ions. For instance, hydrochloric acid is composed of hydrogen and chlorine ions but HCl itself doesn't carry a net charge does it? I'm asking, not accusing. I sucked at chemistry so it's very probable I'm wrong.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. Sure, they're ionic compounds.

Add HCl to water and it dissociates into H+ and Cl-. Sure, that H+ immediately protonates water, but the principle's the same.

The "ionic bond" and "covalent bond" you probably learned about in high school aren't something set in stone. There's different degrees of covalency, most bonds are sort of a combination of the two.

Now HCl has some covalent character to it, but it dissociates completely into solvent seperated ions.

[salvorhardin]

51. Ah. Thanks.

Like I said, I sucked at chemistry so it's good to have the correction.

[C_U_L8R]

15. HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!

HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!

HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!


HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!


sorry..i've fallen and I can't stop this crazy thing

Jane !1111111

[tridim]

22. And 10 minutes later..

HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!
HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!
HeadOn: apply directly to the forehead!

That commercial is slowly driving me insane.

[beam me up scottie]

24. What commercial?

If it's on TV, you'll have to explain since I killed my set long ago when I discovered it was slowly driving me insane.:crazy:

[tridim]

27. That's the whole commercial

They just repeat the line 3 times and end with "Available at Walgreens".

I have no idea what the product does.

[beam me up scottie]

29. BUT I MUST HAVE IT !!!

Good thing they're open 24 hours!

Egad, I was wondering why informed consumers are few and far between these days...

[Viva_La_Revolution]

54. you and me both!

If I can't mute the TV immediately I start looking for shoes to throw.

like that's going to help anything. :eyes:

[Festivito]

21. If one spends $60 on a hair dryer, one would believe ones hair is shinier.

And believing can be all it takes to make one happy.

..since you and I argue about beliefs.. I hope you're happy. ;-O

Do make sure you leave conditioner on the hair for a while before rinsing.
And, there are products that do work better than others for various types of hair.
Good luck.

[beam me up scottie]

23. I haven't spent anything yet.

I need to purchase another dryer and became curious after seeing how much hoopla there is about ions.

As for beliefs, after going through three dryers in one year, I do believe I'll need to spend more than $25 if I want one that will last.

Thanks for the advice. :)

[salvorhardin]

32. As someone whose hair becomes like rope in the summer

I can appreciate the problem. Let me ask you this though... Why would you want to break water molecules apart? I mean, what have they every done to you? Seriously, wouldn't that leave your head slightly flammable? And doesn't heat (hair dryer) + fuel (hydrogen) + oxygen == fire? Of course, you wouldn't really have to worry because this is extreme BS. :-)

[beam me up scottie]

33. ROFL! Just ask Michael Jackson, right?

Not funny, I know.

I was fairly certain it was bullshit, I just wanted to know how negative ions could leave my hair shinier than regular ions (whatever those are).

[salvorhardin]

34. There was a really good product I used to use

That had rosemary and other stuff in it that was fantastic. It was a cream you used after drying your hair. "All natural" too IIRC and it had a guy-friendly scent (made my head smell all woodsy -- in a good sort of way -- as opposed to flowery). Of course it was discontinued. Now I use this product that leaves my hair smelling like fruity bubblegum, doesn't work half as well as the other stuff but leaves my hair with a texture somewhat resembling human hair -- for a few hours anyway.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Yep, looks like another summer of

pretending I want my hair to look just like Sammy Hagar's.

[salvorhardin]

36. I can see where that would be a problem

[beam me up scottie]

37. But it works for him! (swoon)

I just love the Red Rocker.

[salvorhardin]

40. Ions are beloved by woowoos

Ions are just charged particles or atoms. For instance, electrons (negative charge) and protons (positive charge) are ions. Negative ions are also called anions (because they're attracted to anodes) and positive ions are called cations (because they're attracted to cathodes). In terms of atoms that have net negative or positive charges, the name changes to indicate it's an ion. Fluorine becomes fluoride, chlorine become chloride, bromine becomes bromide and so on. All salts are made up of two ions so that the net charge is neutral.

Here's a good site that talks about ions and chemistry.
http://www.purchon.com/chemistry/ions.htm#negative

As for why woowoos love ions, I think it goes back to the idea that the negative ions in the air after a strong rain shower seem to boost our mood (among other things). Of course, this means you already have a negative ion generator in your home -- the shower (which presumably you're using to wash your hair with anyway).

But really I don't know if the reports of negative ions affecting our health are anything but BS. That doesn't stop woowoos though, and in true woowoo spirit if something is good for one thing (lifting your mood) then it must be good for everything else from treating your asthma to, umm, giving you better hair I guess.

[beam me up scottie]

42. Thank you!

That's what I thought. It explains why so many of the sites I pulled up talked about Niagara Falls...hoo boy.:eyes:

I'll just do the usual, pick the dryer with the best rating based on repair records and customer satisfaction and what my budget can afford.

[salvorhardin]

46. There's a great site on all kinds of water scams

AquaScams
http://www.chem1.com/CQ

[Odin2005]

52. Beware comercials that try to sound scientific.

Chances are they are trying to fool the uneducated masses with gobbly-gock. I keep seeing this shampoo comercial which talkes about thier product containing an "amino-peptide complex," that they are really saying is that the shampoo is full of proteins which are supposed to strenghthen your hair. The fancy gobbly-gok is about making the product sound like it's the result of some recent breakthrough.

[beam me up scottie]

56. Thanks, but I don't see commercials, that's why I thought I'd inquire here

I don't pay attention to adverts since I have no tv and I'm not always hip to new fads.
I was looking for a new dryer when I realized all of them have either ceramic and/or ionic "technology" and wondered if there was anything to it.
I figured if it was just so much hot air, DU science buffs and skeptics would let me know.
And they did.
:)