MSNBC: Does science make room for aliens? (new report)

[truthpusher]

MSNBC article about a new report from: the January/February 2005 issue of the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6826412 /

Does science make room for aliens?
Researchers argue that new theories better the odds

SNIP

Now scientists note that recent astrophysical discoveries suggest we should find ourselves in the midst of one or more extraterrestrial civilizations. Moreover, they argue it is a mistake to reject all UFO reports because some evidence for the theoretically predicted extraterrestrial visitors might just be found there.

The researchers make their proposal in the January/February 2005 issue of the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society.

Curious situation
Pick up any good science magazine and you’re sure to see the latest in head-scratching ideas about superstring theory, wormholes or the stretching of space-time itself. Meanwhile, extrasolar planetary detection is on the verge of becoming mundane.

"We are in the curious situation today that our best modern physics and astrophysics theories predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation, yet any possible evidence of such lurking in the UFO phenomenon is scoffed at within our scientific community," contends astrophysicist Bernard Haisch.

SNIP

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6826412 /

PDF of report on Inflation-Theory Implications for
Extraterrestrial Visitation: http://www.ufoskeptic.org/JBIS.pdf

related article: http://www.space.com/searchforlife/et_betterodds_050114...

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Two words: DRAKE EQUATION

This has been out for quite a while

[htuttle]

11. Regarding actual visitations, there's another factor they need to consider

...after Drake's Equation:

f_L: Number of civilizations that have figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light.


Without that, there's only generation ships, frozen 'sleepers', and robots that we'd be likely to see -- unless an alien species had a much slower sense of time than we do (thus making them extremely ponderous to talk to).

---

Regarding radio communications, that's where I'm more puzzled. But even if Drake's equation says the milky way should have about 1,000 communicating civilizations, they might still be very far apart. The thickness of the plane of the Milky Way right where we are is 1,500 light years. That means we've only had radio contact (since radio was invented) with a tiny sphere about 1/50th the thickness of this arm of the Milky Way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. It is so pleasing to meet somebody

who knows what the heck I am talking about.

By the way, they have had a couple false alarms... and how they found Quasars... but the more we look for it, the closer we are to finding it. The problem is... what will happen when we find we are not alone?

Imagine the glee in your local fundie.... NOT

By the way, in the midst of writing a sci fi game which actually starts the time line at that point of first actual contact... and yes I do posit the wonderful panic et al... of course in classic sci fi fashion... sorry but they are a tad agressive so they manage to unite humanity... and usually when I demo the game I intro the players to that momnent of... we are not alone... and have them explore that moment including the panic that ensues.

:-)

Of couse when it actually happens we will not have any panic and people will not go to the local churches believing the end of the world is near... nope nobody will do such...

:-)

[oneighty]

17. A SciFi

Book I read long ago had the alien invaders of earth led by OUR GOD. He liked them better than us.

180

[Cicero]

21. By Lester Del Ray, I think

I think I have that story somewhere...

Throughout the chapters were quotes from the Bible about how God was a jealous God, no other gods before me, having a covenant with the people, etc.

The point of the story was that God had broken his covenant with us and joined in with an extraterrestrial race. And in typical "smite the evildoers" fashion, the new people were doing their dead-level best to wipe us out, however...

I think the book (more like a short story) ends witha quote from the Book of "Man" (or "Exultations") saying, "Thou shalt have no other people before us, for we are a jealous people."

Later,

[oneighty]

24. That sounds like it.

I was friends with a SciFi writer (Robert F. Young) here in my home town. At the time that book was around he said "Any story about God (Such as that one) is a hard sell to the publishers." And that was a long time ago.

Never do it in today's religious climate.

I think.

180

[villager]

2. well, yes, but do the aliens get "raptured," too?

n/t

[raifield]

5. Nonsense!

The aliens were put there to test our faith! :P

[villager]

8. ah yes, by the devil, no doubt.

The same devil as found in the details?

[Shakespeare]

3. Heh...and the fundies think they have a hard time w/evolution NOW. n/t

[MisterP]

4. and this is how the message raaaaan: "science fiction double feature...

[GAspnes]

6. aka the "Fermi Paradox"

If there are alien civilizations, why aren't we hip-deep in them by now?

[jayfish]

9. That's Not A Very Good Question.

It also sounds a little simplistic for a Physicist.

[GAspnes]

18. Take it up with Fermi

"smarter than you and me put together..."

[jayfish]

19. I Didn't Say He Wasn't

I just think he was drunk when he made-up that "paradox". Insects are more numerous then any other class on the planet, yet here I sit in my ,controlled environment, with nary a one in sight. I should be up to my armpits in them ....right? Think of this. Humans are relatively young when compared to the age of the planet. Imagine an intelligent species that got a 1000 year head start on humans. How much more advanced do you think they would be over humans. Now extend that to a 1 million-year head start. How much do you think human knowledge will have advanced in 1 million years? The answer is unfathomable.

Jay

[doreme]

22. Probably

a few more bacteria around than insects. And they are all over you ass.:}

[jayfish]

23. But I Don't See Them Do I ?

BTW I'm not saying aliens do or don't exist.

[ooglymoogly]

7. and what of the folding of space

just inquiring

[SheepyMcSheepster]

10. interesting, thanks for posting

i will check it out.

[Caution]

12. Science certainly does take into account the possibility of alien life

but this statement is a flat out crock of shit:
"We are in the curious situation today that our best modern physics and astrophysics theories predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation, yet any possible evidence of such lurking in the UFO phenomenon is scoffed at within our scientific community," contends astrophysicist Bernard Haisch.

Our best phyics still state that nothing can travel FTL and as a result any intelligent aliens would be presented with the same problems that we are when contemplating interstellar travel.

2 prevailing alien visitation stories:

1.) Aliens only interact with poor unsuspecting fools that no one will ever believe. Gee, there are a million people out there who fervently believe in aliens and are excited at the prospect of them showing up and yet they wont actually make contact with a government. Yeh that makes all kinds of sense.

2.) Aliens are currently working with and within our government to "prepare" humanity for them. Yeh this makes a lot of sense with total whackjob fundamentalist W in office.

Use some common sense people.

1.) Why would aliens bother with us without announcing their existence in a very public manner. Don't give me the alien probe crap. It really wouldnt be that difficult for an alien to simply clone a human being or two considering how close we are to it if we assume they have some kind of great FTL travel method.

2.) If aliens are common in the universe and have the ability to travel interstellar why come to earth? If it they needed something here they could simply take it and be done with it given the advanced technology. The idea that aliens are interested in earth for some reason makes the assumption that there is something special about us. This is almost as arrogant as the claim that we are the chosen people of god and are utterly alone in the universe and that god made it this way.

I would be surprised if there isn't life elsewhere. Intelligent life i couldn't speak to but i'd bet life is abundant. I'd bet my life that aliens have not visited earth because the distances to travel are too great for pretty much no reward in the end.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. The operative word in your post is CURRENTLY

right now, with string theory... not everybody is that sure that FTL will be out of any realm of possibity... the same goes for some other sci fi weirdness (time travel)....

Yep string theory is weird... and it is getting weirder all the time.

As to Aliens not visiting earth... lets assume for a moment they have... and they chose not to let their presnece known after they saw what we are doing to our home world and what we do to each other... and wondering, how the heck did they make it this far? Shoudl we consider permament quarantine of the system?

Just playing with the other what if many people do not want to consider...

[Caution]

15. I did not use currently in the sense you imply

My beef is with the supposed scientist who claims that scientific models currently available imply that we should be experiencing visitation now.

This is flat out wrong. Based on current scientific models (including string theory) we most definitely should NOT be experiencing alien visits.

[haktar]

16. Bovine fecal matter by the shovel full

Where do newspapersss get their scientific advisers?

While its true that our solarsystem sits in the middle of the inhabital zone of the galaxy
(rotating synchronus with the spiral right in the middle of 2 spiral arms therfore not under the risk of a close encounter with a Supernova) and is relativly young, it is also true that our sun
has more metals (heavy elements) than stars born at the same time. And to form rocky planets you need a certain amount of heavy material. Take this into consideration and the original assumtion of 1 billion year stays, But the sun is suddenly one billion years to early. So it is possible that the drake equation is solved becaue n=1 and fermi is also not a paradoxon because we well might be the first to seddle in the milky way(if we don't blow up the earth first, of course)

[Desertrose]

20. Almost all the replies here are all based on what *we* know

(as if we are the most advanced technology possible ;) )and don't seem to take into account that perhaps aliens -ET's whatever- may actually have more advanced knowledge & technology than we currently have.

What of the poster who mentioned folding space?? Maybe there are a lot more ways to travel the universal seas than by ship???

Just wonderin' :)


and seriously, how do we kow they haven't already been here? I wouldn't want word to spread to my starry neighbors that I hang out on that kindergarten planet either :evilgrin:

I mean really, how much do we REALLY know? (We think we know a lot )


edit typos

[qazplm]

25. i guess it is common sense

if aliens have the technology to travel FTL, then methinks they have the technology:

a. not to show up on radar (considering we have stealth)
b. not to be seen all gaudily flying around long enough to be videotaped (hey ET turn-off the outside lights)
c. wouldnt need to keep abducting anyone (DNA = make your own humans)


I can see why aliens WOULD come to Earth for the same reason we study ants, but seems to me that they could quite easily keep themselves hidden, in fact, would want to do so to preserve us as a "sample".

I dunno...I think if they had been here or have, we would be the last ones to know about it.

[Nihil]

26. Ants? ... or whales?

> I can see why aliens WOULD come to Earth for the same reason we study
> ants, but seems to me that they could quite easily keep themselves
> hidden, in fact, would want to do so to preserve us as a "sample".

How about the analogue being the "same reason we study whales"?

We know they are intelligent and communicate amongst themselves but
we don't know how to communicate *with* them.
We monitor their behaviour - sometimes passively (just watching and
recording), sometimes actively (catching, tagging and releasing).

The thing we really need to watch out for is the ET version of the
Japanese whale "research" programmes ... just slaughter a few (when
people aren't looking) for their restaurants - oops, "scientific studies".

Most of the "alien visitation" reports are passive, peaceful (though
unexpected and confusing) in the same way that most whale observations
are passive & peaceful. It's the other type we need to be wary of.

Nihil

[qazplm]

27. most of the alien visitation reports

have real clear links to being visited by "little people" (elves, etc.)

if they wanted to communicate with us I would hope they would pick a better sample than the gaptoothed backwards sorts they have allegedly been favoring so far ;)

[Terry in Austin]

28. Civilizations separated by space AND time

Most of the speculation about intelligent alien life has to do with the distribution of potential homeworlds throughout space. Given a 13+ billion year old universe, intelligent life would have been able to evolve and go extinct a number of times. Species (on Earth, anyway) tend to last on average only a few million years.

So, while it's likely enough (according to Drake) that our galaxy could be home to 1000+ civilizations, the odds of even a few occurring in the same era are a lot smaller.

[qazplm]

29. yes but

the timeframe is actually smaller because the first stars were needed to create all the heavier elements (Oxygen, Carbon, etc) necessary for life. you needed a few nova and supernova to seed the universe with the seeds for life.

So you are probably a few billion years too generous.