Under what conditions would electricity and magnetism become separate forces?

[TechBear_Seattle]

This is a really geeky question for the physics maevens.

I've started reading "Endless Universe" by Paul Steinhardt and Neil Turok, which explains the "cyclical universe" model, the only surviving rival to the "Big Bang" origin theory of the universe.

In describing what the two models have in common, the authors point to the Unified Field Theory, which holds that in the intense energy of the extremely early universe (or the extremely early phases of a cyclical universe), the electromagnetic force and weak nuclear force merge into what is called the electro-weak force. At much higher energy levels, the strong nuclear force merges as well, creating the electro-strong force. In theory, although not yet worked out, even higher energy levels should cause the electro-strong force to merge with gravity.

This got me thinking.... Electromagnetism is actually two forces. The book contained a diagram showing how the two forces travel together, basically as two sine waves moving at 90 degree angles from one another. Has any theoretical work been done which shows the conditions under which these two forces might separate, much as the electro-weak force separated into electromagnetism and the weak? I am curious to know how the universe might look under such conditions.

[DCKit]

1. I'm afraid if we answered that question, this universe would end. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Feh! Such trivialities are beneath the notice of a True Scientist

(Insert maniacal laugh here)

[caraher]

3. Only if special relativity breaks down

Magnetism is basically what happens to electric forces when you take account of special relativity. There aren't really two distinct forces called electricity and magnetism, but one electromagnetic interaction that breaks into electric or magnetic components depending on the states of motion of the field and field sources.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Ok, then: Does a similar argument hold for the electro-weak force?

Was there ever a state of the universe where electromagnetism and weak weren't really two distinct forces but one electro-weak interaction that breaks into electromagnetic or weak components depending on the states of motion of the field and field sources? My understanding is that there indeed was, when the energy density of the universe was much higher. I'm curious to know if the energy density of the universe could ever get so low that electromagnetism separates into two distinct forces. Put another way, could the energy density of the universe get so low that special relativity doesn't hold any more?

I know that physics can be a very conservative area once theories have been established, but I can't imagine that no one has looked into such questions.

[phantom power]

5. They are already separate forces. Their behavior under acceleration is entwined.

Accelerate an electric field, and you produce an orthogonal magnetic field. And vice versa. But the forces themselves are separate. You can easily produce a static electric field without magnetism (and vice versa).

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. Separate forces with the same force carrier?

My understanding is that electromagnetism is considered a single force because there is only one force carrier. And in all the physics books and articles I've read, I've always seen electromagnetism described as a single fundamental force, never as two distinct forces.

[caraher]

8. Usually it's preferable to say "interaction"

What was said about electric and magnetic forces, and for that matter electric and magnetic fields, is true. But those distinct forces and fields arise from the same fundamental interaction.

In a given reference frame there's no ambiguity regarding which forces are electric and which are magnetic. But each kind of force arises from the same interaction, electromagnetic interactions mediated by photons.

But the original question was really about interactions rather than forces. Yes, there is an energy scale at which electromagnetic and weak interactions merge. But there isn't an energy scale at which electric and magnetic interactions "separate," a point where electric forces are mediated by one set of bosons and magnetic forces by another.

The relationship among relativity and electric and magnetic forces is captured nicely in this simple, classic problem.

[pokerfan]

9. Yeah, they are differentially related

Each exists as a differential (change) in the other. Of course that is only looking at EM as a wave. Remember that electromagnetism is also a particle, i.e. the photon.

I would suggest the OP review Maxwell's equations and the standard model of physics for starting points. Obviously our understanding of physics is incomplete, but you have to start somewhere.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. If Magnetism finds out about Electricty's fling with Weak, it's over.

Magnetism's been suspecting for awhile. Entertainment scientists have already dubbed the couple "Electroweak."