Are there laboratories that, like museums, sell memberships to the general public?

[Boojatta]

For example, there could be four divisions to a lab:
Chemistry, Physics, Electronics, and Mechanical Engineering.

Perhaps it wouldn't be practical to simply sell memberships to anyone, but people could pay a small amount of money to take a supervised tour and receive at no extra charge one copy of the current safety manual. People who passed a test based on the information in the safety manual and who also passed a relatively elementary subject area test (for example, grade 7 level) would have an opportunity to purchase a membership.

Role of lab supervisors:
1. Answer any question about the content of the safety manual.
2. For technical questions, either try to answer or refer members to specific parts of reference books that members can use to figure out the answers for themselves.
3. Remain vigilant and keep open lines of communication with members to reduce the chance of them injuring themselves or other members or damaging equipment.
4. Report any breach of safety rules or suspected theft to lab security personnel.

[marylanddem]

1. Interesting question - what makes you ask it?

[SnowGoose]

2. I think cost is the prohibitive factor

I work in life sciences, so maybe it's different for other fields, but the amount of money they would have to charge for a membership probably puts it out of the range of most people who might have a use for it.

I just popped over to fishersci.com, one of the go-to merchants for lab supplies. I looked at microbalances, because weighing stuff accurately is a pretty common need. Just the regular Mettler microbalances run 15-24 thousand dollars each, one fume hood 11-16 thousand dollars. Flammables cabinet (the little ones) 600-800 bucks each, and a fridge that won't explode when you put volitiles in it 4 to 6 thousand dollars.

It's just silly how much this stuff costs. In the early days where I am, we did some stuff like getting our aluminum foil and paper towels at the dollar store,(favorite: a dollar store bottle of nail polish makes a perfectly serviceable coverglass sealer for microscope slides) but there's only so much cost trimming that can be done, it is an inherently expensive enterprise.

Wouldn't it be cool though?

[Boojatta]

4. Is that a lot more expensive than what's in an ordinary museum?

Just the regular Mettler microbalances run 15-24 thousand dollars each, one fume hood 11-16 thousand dollars. Flammables cabinet (the little ones) 600-800 bucks each, and a fridge that won't explode when you put volitiles in it 4 to 6 thousand dollars.

[SnowGoose]

8. I'm ignorant of the realities of museum work

I just "oooo" and "aaahhh", and probably like most everyone else think "Dang, they got a funner job than me".

What's the connection with museums? When you mentioned museum memberships in your original post, I thought you were just talking about memberships to go look at the exhibits ~ but now I'm wondering if you're talking about a museum that offers access to the laboratory/conservation areas for research work.

That would be awesome.

[anigbrowl]

3. You mean like a timeshare idea for lab access?

It's kinda cool, but my impression was that that's why people go to grad school. Of course, if you're an amateur chemist or something without a degree you're SOL and will have to make your meth in a bathtub like everyone else ;-)

[Greyskye]

5. I've heard of a public darkroom setup like that

Where you could go to develop your color photographs without having to buy the equipment and chemicals yourself.

That's as close to what you're talking about that I've ever heard of. :shrug:

[girl gone mad]

6. A community college might have something available.

Some homeschool groups use CC labs and HS labs.

My brother in law takes a class at his local CC specifically so that he can use their wood shop. It's available to him most days.

[caraher]

7. what would be the purpose?

This really could not work for serious research labs in most fields. There's a reason for all those fancy advanced degrees!

But something like this could be a cool model for educational purposes.

[girl gone mad]

9. of course it could work.

I have a fancy degree, and let me tell you, I know people without any degrees who are every bit as educated and intelligent as those with them. I learned 98% of what I know on my own, through books. If your comment was a reference to lab safety, there are many great books and videos on the subject. Public labs could be well supervised.

[caraher]

10. As I said, it depends on the field

certainly there are lots of people with high school educations who do excellent work in labs. And there are also people with PhDs who are a menace. But if you're talking about trying to do cutting-edge research in a system where people pay to play as a hobby, and have to divert all kinds of resources into training and supervision, you're either not going to get much done or you're going to have to spend a LOT more money for the same research output, at least in any of the areas I've participated in research.

At my university we regularly do week-long research experiences with high school groups. It takes a LOT of work to come up with a suitable project, bring students and their teachers up to speed, make sure you don't give them the chance to break anything too expensive, etc. It's exhausting and for most of us it's a significant disruption of our regular work, that we engage in specifically for the educational outreach opportunity, not for the chance to advance our research.

It's no slam against the self-educated to say that simply flinging open the doors of our labs to whoever is willing to pay to play is probably not the most efficient use of the resources devoted to scientific research.

[Boojatta]

15. The purpose is to expand educational opportunities.

Public libraries provide an important educational opportunity, but there's more to learning than book learning.

[TZ]

11. Probably would not fly for reasons of liability

Many labs (at least in biology) require all sorts of prerequisites before even being allowed in. Such as certain immunizations and LOTS of safety training..not just a short test. For example for my lab you need a long chemical hygiene course and then a bloodborn pathogen class before you even get in. Then there is the proprietary data issue.
Plus by law certain labs that perform certain work are required to be limited access. My lab is a GLP compliant lab which means even most of my company coworkers don't have access to the lab.
Not sure about other fields but in biology where there are strict sterility issues among other things, this would never fly.

[Bill McBlueState]

12. As usual, I can't tell what you're getting at,

but that's fine.

Some small astronomical observatories could be considered to work this way. For a small fee, someone might get to look through the telescope during a public tour. If that person showed the right level of interest and aptitude, they might be invited to join the rotation of people who spend one or two nights a week collecting research-quality data.

[phantom power]

13. I've been wanting to rent out a level-4 biohazard facility for some experiments.

Oh shit, did I just say that out loud?

[TZ]

14. Nice post...

Stephen Hatfill....:P

[quakerboy]

16. Would it not be more effective

Just to consider that that is what Community colleges are right now?

Pretty much anyone who cares to can walk in, sign up for a class. I once went to a new school and signed up for an Ochem lab, and nothing else. Most of those who do will limit themselves to the proscribed experiments in order to get a good grade, but its not terribly hard to do your own thing if the grade is not what you are there for.

I would imagine in the end, this would be a much more cost effective approach to the situation.

[SnowGoose]

17. I found something relevant

Hi Boojatta,

I don't know if you're keeping an eye on this thread anymore but I found this article on BoingBoing today, that made me think about your idea for co-op labs:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/29/bbtv-favorites-from.html

It describes: "an open-access public workshop that's kind of like a health club with heavy machinery and sparks instead of treadmills. Tinkerers, inventors, and hackers pay a membership fee, and in turn receive access to professionally-maintained gear, workshops, mentors, and a community of like-minded makers."

Sounds like fun.