Monkeys Understand Numbers Across Senses

[JI7]

<Monkeys can match the number of voices they hear to the number of faces they expect to see, Duke University scientists have found. The finding indicates that numerical perception is truly an abstract concept and not just a function of a particular sense, said the researchers. The experimental approach also will lead to further studies exploring whether human infants, before they have a verbal capacity, understand similar abstract numerical concepts, they said.

The researchers, led by Elizabeth Brannon of Duke University and Asif Ghazanfar of Princeton University, published their findings in the June 7, 2005, issue of Current Biology. Brannon is in the Center for Cognitive Neuroscience and the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences. Lead author on the paper was graduate student Kerry Jordan in Brannon's laboratory; and Nikos Logothetis of the Max Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics in Germany was a co-author. The research was sponsored by The National Institute of Child Health and Development, the John Merck Fund, the Max Planck Society and a National Science Foundation graduate fellowship.

In their experiments, the researchers played rhesus monkeys the sound of natural "coo" calls made by unfamiliar monkeys, either with two or three animals making the calls. At the same time they gave the monkeys a choice to look at video images of either two or three monkeys. The researchers found that the monkeys overwhelmingly chose to look at video images that matched the number of monkeys they were hearing. This result is consistent with previous studies that both animals and infants tend to look preferentially at a visual stimulus that matches the sound they are hearing.

According to Brannon, previous studies had yielded conflicting results regarding whether perception of numerical values by nonhuman animals or human infants was tied to the sense used to perceive the number. To resolve the question, said Brannon, the researchers decided to design an experiment that used socially relevant stimuli.

"Our approach really derives from thinking about why a monkey would need to represent numbers across sensory modalities," she said. "In the wild, a monkey might hear different monkeys vocalizing and not see them, yet need to know how many animals there are. For example, in a territorial dispute, you could imagine that an animal would want to know, 'Well, how many animals are really about to encroach on our territory?'">

http://www.rednova.com/news/science/154271/monkeys_understand_numbers_across_senses/

[expatriot]

1. they don't even feel pain, let alone be able to think.....

Go here and see what we are doing >>>>> http://www.covancecruelty.com

[xchrom]

8. somebody is going to think you're a radical

animal rights activist.
and then we'll have an all out attack peta thread.

[Rex]

10. The oppressed always suffer

universal law.

[Deja Q]

14. And we will never end the oppression.

Jesus tried, didn't get him very far either.

[pie]

18. BE CAREFUL! Calling for animal rights attracts the lynchin' mob

Stating that animals are sentient, intelligent, or
capable of feeling pain results in the dispatch of the
death snipers!

Say anything positive about PETA... and they take away your birthday!

[aquart]

2. All I know is....

We had a cat who would leave when the first guest arrived, and return as the last guest left. How did he do that if he couldn't count? HOW???

[Spinzonner]

3. That's not counting

it's the presence or absence of strangers.

You'd have to demonstrate differentiation between different numbers not just zero and not zero.

[DenaliDemocrat]

4. That is why dogs are better

if you get the right kind, you never have to worry about having guests.

[nolabels]

12. Or cats

:sarcasm:

[bklyncowgirl]

11. My horse can count, seriously

When we first trained him I made the mistake of rewarding him for several times in a row after three successful circles on the lunge line.

I couldn't figure out why he'd do it right for three rounds and then dive for the treat bucket on the fourth (dragging me along in the process).

He finally figured it out after I gave him hell when he stopped the next time, but since then I've made sure that I vary any routine enough so that he doesn't get the wrong idea.

[expatriot]

5. Just now on CNN.com: Researchers: Dolphins use sponges as tools

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/06/06/dolphin.learning.ap/index.html

[pnorman]

6. Primitive number sense.

I've read several times in the past, that the primitive number sense of ALL animals doesn't go beyond Three. That applies to humans, crows, and presumably monkeys. Beyond Three is the hazy concept of "Many", and dealing with such larger numbers requires relatively sophisticated education.

This is beyond any level of personal knowledge I have on the topic, and I'm inspired to start cruising the internet on this --- a resource I DIDN'T have, way back when.

pnorman

[cestpaspossible]

9. I'm sceptical of claims to know what is going on inside an animal's head.

I'm sure the scientists were quite proud of their experiments but...

[pnorman]

15. All that can be done is speculate

on the basis of observable actions, and form a theory. I don't think anything "stronger" than that has been implied.

[Igel]

19. My guess is they watch eyemovements.

At some point we tend to look at things we think are novel, the more novel the more we look at them. We also tend to like looking at comforting things.

If we've seen something a million times, we glance and our eyes move on to something worthy of our attention (shifts in attention and parallel shifts in eye movements in humans are strongly time-locked).

It's the basis for many child language acquisition studies, psycholinguistic work, and work in the psychology of vision.

I have no clue exactly how the critters' eye movements pattern, but you could run some baseline experiments to see how they react to known faces, to faces that are new but for which there's no prior warning; then you could expose them to sound stimuli and look for changes in how they react to novel faces. If you get a distinct reaction to new faces that could be associated with previously heard novel voices, but which is different from how they react to novel faces for which they haven't been prepared, you're part way there.

Then make the number of faces be equal to the number of distinct voices for some group, greater than the number of voices for a second, and less than the number of faces for the third. You'd have to mix in some known faces for a control or distractor. If the critters stop their novel reaction when they've succeeded in mapping novel faces to novel voices, you're almost there. It would be nice if the groups that weren't shown enough novel faces to account for all the novel voices would continue to show undue attention to familiar faces.

That may not be how they'd construct the experiment; it's how I'd do it, given my asssumptions about primate behavior (and what I know about humans).

[TahitiNut]

16. Hypothesis: That "number sense" matches number of teats for mammals.

I'm guessing it'd be a natural selection aptitude. :shrug:

[Nihil]

20. Good point!

Wonder if the "number sense" increases with animals that tend to have
large litters (e.g., pigs counting higher than monkeys)?

It would make a lot of sense for a mother to be able to "count" up to
the number of her offspring ... wish some humans could do that ...

[shockra]

7. That reminded me...

Of a review I saw last night at amazon.com for Steven Wise's book Drawing the Line: Science and the Case for Animal Rights.

"I found one case most interesting. As an economist, I was particularly bemused to discover that orangutans have displayed an understanding of economic value! The author describes the orangutans Azy and Indah who were given bamboo tools to use in public demonstrations. After a demonstration, a human could only retrieve the bamboo tools from the orangutans in exchange for proper compensation. Offering the orangutans a sunflower seed was sufficient payment for a small piece of bamboo. Obtaining a large piece cost much more: an entire walnut. Shrewd bargainers, those orangutans were, and capable of very abstract thinking!"

[Skypilot 18]

13. What this means is

What this means is that we have been too hard on chimps and monkeys. This study proves beyond a Shadow of a doubt that Bushit's IQ is lower than that of the average primate.

WE must apologize to the world's primates for dragging their species through the mud this way.

As in a matter of fact, we'd all be better off with a real monkey in charge. I have never met a chimp or a monkey I didn't like. I even saw one throw crap at a republican one time at a visit to the zoo. Never wear a Bushit Cheney T-shirt at the primate cage at the zoo. Primates are not fools. Bushit is.

[Cicero]

21. Does this mean chimps are capitalists? (nt)

[AlCzervik]

17. Insert Bush comparison here