Is causality a non-scientific concept?

[Boojatta]

There are plenty of mathematical formulas in physics. Some people say that none of those formulas makes any reference to causality. Given that causality is a very basic concept, they believe that if it isn't part of physics, then it isn't part of science.

[Swede Atlanta]

1. The concept of causality is used in a legal setting....

Except as codified by statute, a common law claim of negligence required
(1) A duty of care
(2) Breach of the duty of care
(3) Harm or damage was sustained
(4) The breach was the proximate or legal cause of the harm

There is an entire body of law around "proximate" or "legal" causation.

So in short, yes the concept of causation exists outside of science.

[Boojatta]

2. I apologize for not expressing myself clearly enough.

I want to know: does the concept of causality exist in science?
I appreciate that it is used in some fields of study that aren't within the realm of science.

[kristopher]

3. Who are the "some people" and what is the philosophy they view the issue from?

You haven't laid out the question in a way that allows fruitful discussion.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/

[Boojatta]

10. Who are the "some people" who are participating in THIS thread?

What is the philosophy they view the issue from?

Answer the above two questions and I'll have an example of what kind of answers you are hoping to get.

[GodlessBiker]

4. Yes, the concept of causality exists in science.

As I understand it, current theory says that not everything in the universe is caused. Quantum mechanics says that some events are random, that is, uncaused.

[cprise]

6. "some events are random, that is, uncaused"

Background noise?

[GodlessBiker]

7. No. Radioactive decay and other processes.

[dimbear]

12. Background noise is a deep subject.

I hope you mean radio background noise. Some of it is terrestrial, which comes from human activity, and some of it comes from the deep reaches of cosmic space. It would be daring to assign the latter a cause. In other words, when you tune your FM to the far end of the dial and turn up the volume, you are listening to interstellar space.

Do not, under any circumstances, think about this.

[Boojatta]

9. "some events are random, that is, uncaused"

Agree or disagree?:
Some events are spontaneous, that is, uncaused.

After all, randomness is a concept of probability, statistics, or mathematics. For example, there's a concept of randomness that puts some data into the "random" category if no algorithm that generates the data is of smaller size than the data. From this point of view, a positive integer n doesn't have to be very big before the first n consecutive digits in the decimal expansion of pi is non-random. There are tests of randomness based on a more traditional concept of randomness that would put such decimal expansions into the "random" category. It seems that the algorithmic notion of randomness is appropriate for cryptographic applications. For example, given a proposed one-time pad, we would use the algorithmic concept of randomness to answer this question: is the data random or close enough to random that it would be acceptable to use it as a one-time pad?

Phenomena studied in physics usually have, at least in the aggregate, some non-randomness, some regularities.

[cprise]

5. I thought the laws of thermodynamics defined causality

...just not very succinctly.

You can detect causality by measuring a system's change in entropy, which gives you hard data that the prior state moved to a latter state with higher entropy. It always goes in one direction, hence "cause" (added energy) then "effect" (new state with higher entropy).


On edit: Also, whenever people include (or imply) time as a variable they are usually demonstrating cause and effect.

[qazplm]

8. yes causality and entropy

can definitely be related.

Although, does it always go in one direction, at least locally? You can have states of lower entropy caused by added entropy, particularly biologically.

[DetlefK]

11. Entropy defines a direction on the time scale -> causality

It is possible to destroy entropy locally, but at the cost of creating much more entropy in the vicinity: I found that example in a really old book about statistical physics while learning for an exam.
Start with Gay-Lussac's thought experiment of an expanding gas, but this time with a finite number of gas particles. You will find a probability, that the gas will compress itself back into the original volume. If you shut the valve in the right moment (-> the additional entropy I mentioned) you can destroy the entropy created by the gas-expansion.

If you stretch that argument, it leads to the conclusion that life (ordered structure) can be created from non-ordered structures through random events.

You are a lousy Intelligent Designer when random natural events do your job for free.

[bananas]

13. The formulas of relativity reference causality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_cone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_future

edit to add: Therefore, "some people" are wrong when they say "none of those formulas makes any reference to causality".

[bananas]

14. What motivated the question?

[bananas]

15. Is acausality a scientific concept?

There are plenty of mathematical formulas in physics. Some people say that some of those formulas make reference to acausality. Given that acausality is a very basic concept, they believe that if it's part of physics, then it's part of science.