"parental alienation syndrome"

[iverglas]

It's been an undercurrent in some recent posts. I have no doubt that there are parents who actively work to undermine their children's relationship with the other parent. I have just as little doubt that this "syndrome" is a handy new tool in the kit used by some men to get their own way, by whatever means necessary. Just google it.

So I thought everyone might be interested in an extreme and early case of the "syndrome". It's the true story of JoAnn and Colin Thatcher, which can be viewed in a compelling CBC movie called "Love and Hate", first broadcast in Canada in 1989 and now available on DVD as "Love and Hate: A Marriage Made in Hell". I don't think that's quite an accurate depiction; the marriage was certainly hell for JoAnn, but it was made that way by her husband.

Colin Thatcher was a wealthy Canadian politician who is currently in prison for having his wife murdered. Yup, that'll alienate the kids from their parent all right: just have her killed.

In the interim, between the split and the murder, Thatcher used every bit of money and power at his disposal - not to mention kidnapping in violation of a custody order - to alienate his kids from his former wife. It is painful to watch in the movie - how he gets his older sons on board with his abusive campaign of terror against his wife, and eventually wins his young daughter. I don't know what the sons' situation is now, and one can only hope that as they matured they realized what had been done to them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Thatcher
(perhaps just a slightly over-sympathetic portrayal of Thatcher)

Divorce

His marriage, however, did not fare so well, and in 1980, after nearly a year of legal battling, the couple divorced. JoAnn was awarded custody of two of their three children, plus $820,000 for her share of the marital property; the amount was one of the highest ever awarded by a Canadian divorce court. Thatcher formally contested the settlement and ignored its custody terms, at one point flying to JoAnn's new home in Brampton to kidnap the children.

JoAnn married Tony Wilson soon afterward, but she had to endure almost constant harassment from Colin. After JoAnn was shot and injured by an unidentified assailant the following year, she gave up her claim to custody of Regan, the middle child, and settled for about half of her original court award. They believed Thatcher was behind the shooting, but never pressed charges.

Again, Thatcher's political life was largely unaffected, and he won his third straight term as MLA at the 1982 election. The Saskatchewan Tories won a majority government in that election, and Thatcher was appointed to the provincial cabinet as Minister of Energy and Mines. However, following public criticism and disputes with then-premier Grant Devine, he resigned from the post the following year.

Murder

Four days later, on 21 January 1983, JoAnn was found bludgeoned and shot to death in the garage of her Regina home. Again, rumours abounded that Thatcher was in some way involved, though he was not formally charged until 7 May 1984, after a lengthy police investigation.

Good grief. I just realized, from the wiki article, that his last bid for parole was successful. I hadn't realized that. Much as I'm not generally of a vengeful bent when it comes to sentencing, this asshole should have rotted in our quite humane prison system for a little longer, if you ask me.


edit - day parole on 72-hour passes only, it seems. And apparently his children visit him. Sick? And he is born again. And apparently has exploited some loophole in the "son of sam"-type legislation prohibiting convicted criminals from profiting from writing books about their deeds ...

[Howardx]

1. is this "syndrome" gender specific?

or might it be possible for some women to have "used to get their own way, by whatever means necessary"

its not unheard of for someones ex wife to turn their kids against them, it is no way a male only "syndrome"

[iverglas]

3. are you trying hard to be clever?

edit - if so, you seem to have failed.

Perhaps you really didn't grasp my point.

ALLEGATIONS of "parental alienation syndrome" are the handy new tool being propagated by the "men's rights" crowd.

That's not to say that there are no parents who attempt to alientate their children from the other parent. As I did say.

Just as no one would say there are no men who sexually abuse their children, hm? Despite all the allegations of false allegations of sexual abuse ...

[Howardx]

4. no answer?

just the ad hom then?

[iverglas]

5. see the edit.

[iverglas]

6. and just to be perfectly clear

The reason I asked was that your question:

is this "syndrome" gender specific?

made not a stitch of sense as a response to my own post.

The "syndrome" is what is alleged by parents claiming that their former spouse has turned their child against them.

To hear the "men's rights" crowd, the "syndrome" IS gender-specific. It is something done by women to men, the poor long-suffering pets.


typo fixed

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Wow!

That's an especially nasty, gratuitous little smear of "men."

Yeah, your bias shown in the OP is now right out there.

What a waste of time ..................

[iverglas]

12. you really don't got google, do you?

Allow me to help.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22parental+alienation+syndrome%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Not that you have any time to waste on such things, of course. Much more productive to make pronouncements based on nothing but one's own nasty little prejudices.

[iverglas]

14. this one cites sources

Anything to make it easier for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_alienation_syndrome

Parental alienation syndrome (PAS, also referred to as parental alienation disorder<1>), is a controversial syndrome formulated by Richard A. Gardner in which a child, on an ongoing basis, belittles and insults a parent without justification. PAS is believed by Gardner to arise in part due to indoctrination by one parent against the other parent primarily in association with a child custody dispute, and in part as a result of the child's own behavior.<2> Parental alienation syndrome is criticized by some members of the legal and mental health communities as lacking in scientific validity and reliability.<1><3><4><5> PAS has been accepted as evidence in custody cases in the United States and some other countries.<6><7>

... Some fathers' rights activists assert that PAS exists and that it explains why some children are fearful or refuse contact with their fathers during custody and access cases.<17><18><19>

... In 1996, the American Psychological Association (APA) released a statement indicating that the organization has no official position with respect to PAS but noted a lack of supporting data regarding it, and raised concerns over its use.<20> The APA’s 1996 Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family expressed concern that custody evaluators use PAS as a means of giving custody to fathers despite of a history of violence, a concern shared by other commentators.<3><21><22> PAS is not recognized by the American Medical Association or the American Psychiatric Association , and is not included in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).<5><10><23> Dr. William Bernet, a psychiatrist, has provided arguments for including parental alienation disorder in the next edition of the DSM.<1><14> The National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges has rejected PAS.<18>

...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. Honey,

you're protesting 'way too much.

I have no interest in your frantic cutting and copying.

I simply commented on your obvious anti-male animus.

Not a pretty thing to witness, and it certainly does render whatever point you were trying to make quite impotent.

Now, calm down and stop calling men names. Can you imagine what would have happened if a man had referred to any group of women the way you did men?

Relax...............

[iverglas]

18. "I simply commented on your obvious anti-male animus."

Huh. A pronoun, a verb, some other words, some punctuation.

All adding up to ... nothing!

I can do it too.

I was having a chat this morning with the faeries who live at the bottom of my garden ...

There, see? Faeries live at the bottom of my garden, and I have chats with them.

Sweetheart.

[BoneDaddy]

28. Still doesn't mean you are less

a man hater. You have made that point clear in your numerous threads.

At least have the balls, excuse me, the guts to own your hate, instead of the game of obfuscation you play, poorly, I might add.

[iverglas]

21. by the way

I'd say your filthy conduct makes me puke, but that would suggest I give a shit.

[iverglas]

20. so I've waited

I thought you might produce some substantiation of this statement:

That's an especially nasty, gratuitous little smear of "men."

Hell, maybe you could just quote said "smear".

[elleng]

2. No one murdered in my family,

but daughters are out of touch. :(

[MADem]

7. The Government probably figured that he'd never do it again.

Of course, assholes like that often do. Look at Drew Peterson.... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,468385,00.html

Assholes like that often game the system while playing at being religious, too. Psychopaths and sociopaths, some of 'em.

[iverglas]

8. Western Canada

is our very own Bible belt.

http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0300/thatcher

"Colin Thatcher has found God and still maintains innocence"

Stephen Harper, current Prime Minister and an adopted member of the Western Canada evangelical family (being, by birth, an effete intellectual Central Canadian), is someone else who fits the sociopath / convert mould.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

9. She was a cokehead ..............

That Wikipedia article, as is so often the case, glosses over the wife's behavior, and is rather cavalier about whatever she did to contribute to the general unhappiness of the marriage. The idea that her husband's behavior "drove her to use cocaine" is a really laughable assertion.

He is "reported to have . . . abused her." Can the language get any more weasel-like? Somebody doesn't like the husband, it would appear.

It would be interesting to hear the story from an impartial POV.

Sounds like everybody was a loser, and everybody lost.

Never use Wikipedia as any kind of authoritative source....

[iverglas]

11. "It would be interesting to hear the story from an impartial POV."

Yes, it would. And you perhaps somehow missed my comment that the wiki article maybe wasn't that?

Google is free and easy.

Unless one uses the resources one has to do one's own research, one's opinions -- "Sounds like everybody was a loser, and everybody lost" -- aren't worth much.

During the period when Thatcher was kidnapping his children and conducting a campaign of terror against his former wife and her new husband, and ultimately had her murdered, she was not "a cokehead". Sorry.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. So, a wife's coke habit

has nothing to do with a marriage getting into trouble?

Oh, I think it does.......................

[iverglas]

15. yeah, I'm going to debate

FACTS with someone who doesn't have any.

Oops. No I'm not.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. You haven't any facts -

You are simply reporting what was published, and if you believe everything you read, well, there's a name for THAT syndrome, too...........

[iverglas]

19. I'm very much looking forward to seeing your facts

Had you heard of Colin Thatcher before 10 minutes ago?

Please do share your vast wealth of knowledge of this 20-year-old event and its cast of characters.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. But iverglas! The wife did COKE!

Bitch had it coming, obviously. :sarcasm:

[Hello_Kitty]

24. What the FUCK does that have to do with her ex-husband's behavior AFTER the divorce?

:shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

26. Hey, didn't the OJ defenders raise Nicole's alleged coke habit too?

I seem to remember that. Of course, it wasn't just to portray her as a junkie and a floozy like you're doing with the OP, they also did it to suggest a possible drug cartel connection to her murder.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. And so what if she was?

Why is Tangerine even bringing up the "unhappiness of the marriage" and whatever she did to "contribute" to it? What did she do to invite stalking, emotional harassment, and her eventual murder?

[iverglas]

27. gosh

One might almost think that you bothered to find out something about the events before you said anything!

That wiki item is the only place I have ever seen anything about JoAnn using cocaine. Remember ... I live here, and I was closely connected with both politics and the law at the time. Not to mention the fact that the first man I ever did it with was - hold onto your hat - a first cousin of Colin Thatcher. (But that was much longer ago, probably before JoAnn and Colin met.) She may well have used cocaine. She quite likely drank a bit too.

But yup, so what? Oh, right, maybe that was why Colin abused his wife and kids. (Yup, what he did to his kids was abuse -- Thatcher had his sons parroting everything he said about his wife, and treating her just as rottenly as he did, when what she was doing was trying to rescue them from his obsessive foul influence and rear them in a loving family. It is absolutely abusive to rear one's sons to be misogyinstic scum who hate their mother and continue to fraternize with their father after he murdered their mother.)


Back to the "parental alienation" theme ... one can only imagine how difficult it must be to smile and nod and never say a bad word about the man one left because one was emotionally, psychologically, physically and/or financially abused by him.

Oh, yes indeed, not all relationships break down because of spousal abuse. But many do. Presumably, those custodial mothers must make every effort to conceal that truth from their children, because to tell them the truth would, gasp, alienate them from their father. Imagine how the children might feel once they do eventually learn the truth.


I could smell what "parental alienation syndrome" was the first time I heard of it.

It smelled like one more way for abusive/obsessed men to regain their rightful place in the patriarchy: above their wives and children. Both women and children are vulnerable here -- women, by remaining subject to their former husbands' control over their relationship with their children, and children who have been abused, to having their reality disregarded and being forced to associate with a parent they fear and may be harmed by. Those children are not "alienated", they are abused.

Yup, some vindictive people make false complaints of sexual assault. And undoubtedly some vindictive spouses attempt to turn their children against the other parent. But none of that a "syndrome" makes.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Which obviously means she deserved to be murdered.

:crazy: