"Men's Rights" Groups Have Become Frighteningly Effective

[Triana]

At the end of October, National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, members of the men’s movement group RADAR (Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting) gathered on the steps of Congress to lobby against what they say are the suppressed truths about domestic violence: that false allegations are rampant, that a feminist-run court system fraudulently separates innocent fathers from children, that battered women’s shelters are running a racket that funnels federal dollars to feminists, that domestic-violence laws give cover to cagey mail-order brides seeking Green Cards, and finally, that men are victims of an unrecognized epidemic of violence at the hands of abusive wives.

“It’s now reached the point,” reads a statement from RADAR, “that domestic violence laws represent the largest roll-back in Americans’ civil rights since the Jim Crow era!”

RADAR’s rhetoric may seem overblown, but lately the group and its many partners have been racking up very real accomplishments. In 2008, the organization claimed to have blocked passage of four federal domestic-violence bills, among them an expansion of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) to international scope and a grant to support lawyers in pro bono domestic-violence work. Members of this coalition have gotten themselves onto drafting committees for VAWA’s 2011 reauthorization. Local groups in West Virginia and California have also had important successes, criminalizing false claims of domestic violence in custody cases, and winning rulings that women-only shelters are discriminatory.

...

But do any of their arguments hold up? Many of the men for whom Sacks advocates are involved in extreme cases, says Joanie Dawson, a writer and domestic-violence advocate who has covered the fathers’ rights movement. The great majority of custody cases, in which shared parenting is a legitimate option, are settled or resolved privately. But of the 15 percent that go to family court—the cases that fathers’ rights groups target—at least half include alleged domestic abuse.

Unsurprisingly, this argument is missing from MRA discussions of custody inequality and recruitment ads, which cast all men as potentially innocent victims “just one 911 call away” from losing everything they have earned and loved.

...

The biggest concern, though, is not the wasted effort on a false issue,” writes Straton, but the encouragement given to batterers to consider themselves the victimized party. “Arming these men with warped statistics to fuel their already warped worldview is unethical, irresponsible, and quite simply lethal.”

In this, critics like Australian sociologist Michael Flood say that men’s rights movements reflect the tactics of domestic abusers themselves, minimizing existing violence, calling it mutual, and discrediting victims. MRA groups downplay national abuse rates, just as abusers downplay their personal battery; they wage campaigns dismissing most allegations as false, as abusers claim partners are lying about being hit; and they depict the violence as mutual—part of an epidemic of wife-on-husband abuse—as individual batterers rationalize their behavior by saying that the violence was reciprocal. Additionally, MRA groups’ predictions of future violence by fed-up men wronged by the family-law system seem an obvious additional correlation, with the threat of violence seemingly intended to intimidate a community, like a fearful spouse, into compliance.

MUCH MORE...


http://www.doublex.com/section/news-politics/mens-rights-groups-have-become-frighteningly-effective?page=2,0

[Triana]

1. I posted here months ago about one of these "Men's Right's" groups....

...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=229&topic_id=4965&mesg_id=4965

[glowing]

2. That sucks for the men like my husband who are actually the most stable parent and the one

who needs to have custody. These groups make it bad for everyone.. and NO child should be left to suffer under such conditions.

[lukasahero]

4. Probably sucks for the women getting beat up, too.

:eyes:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Studies show that domestic violence incidents are much more evenly spread

between the genders than many realize. Its clearly more the the less than 5% number some claim, but its probably not the 50-50 number that the other side espouses. Those statistics in no way excuse any form of domestic violence by anyone.

[glowing]

7. I'm not sure, but I do know it is the mother that will do violence over my husband.

towards him and towards our son. Its costing us a fortune that we don't have; but we can't ignore his needs.

[seabeyond]

8. except the extreme violence, the kick the shit out of, hospitalization type violence, men

statistically are way higher.

you can say domestic violence is more even, the in severity, it isn't even close.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. For out and out bloodletting you may be right...the broad spectrum of conduct defies usable metrics

Then there is this from earlier today: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x268777

The real way out of this is the empowerment of women in the workplace. They already are a slight majority in higher education. Knowledge brings jobs which bring money which bring empowerment. To me it is the long term strategy. When you get past the 70 cents on the dollar crowd and look at apples to apples in the same field, there is little to no disparity. Yes there are pink collar ghettos, but education can and will address that.

What bothers me is to see the exodus of women from the technical fields. 25 years ago undergraduate Comp Sci was almost half women, now its below 20%. Part of the may be Gen X & Gen Y preferences, but I see it as a backward step from equality and empowerment.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Worse than "men's rights": Promise Keepers

Basic tenent is for women to SUBMIT TO their husbands. No partnership, no equality.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Unfortunately, there is some merit to their positions

Divorce court is the playground of liars on both sides. Questionable claims of spousal abuse and child abuse are common in contested cases. Visitation interference is common and the courts rarely step in. More recently alimony judgments are being reopened, some of them having been in place for decades. Bad cases make for bad law, and there are enough bad cases over time to support their agitation. No easy solution here.

I have held for years that the entire family court and social services concept in the US needs a major overhaul. This would be a piece of it.

[seabeyond]

9. and i agree. nt

[iverglas]

23. liars ... or abusive control freaks ...

Questionable claims of spousal abuse and child abuse are common in contested cases.

You know what was most common in the separation/divorce cases I handled in my days in practice?

Applications for custody (more commonly excessive access) by fathers who didn't actually give the first shit about their children. What they cared about was keeping an unfair share of family property and paying as little support as possible.

The best way to screw a woman out of her fair share of property, and an appropriate amount of support for her children, was and likely still is to promise a long fight over custody of / access to the kids that the man doesn't actually care whether he ever sees again.

Drop that property claim, dear; agree to some piddling amount of support; and I'll leave you and your kids alone.

Might I be tempted to allege abuse to avoid that if it were happening to me? Hmm.

[Scout]

24. this reminds me of a question i have....

you know how certain people always claim that courts are biased in favor of the mothers and always give them custody of the children regardless of how good a father their father would be...?

well, i wonder in how many divorce cases where the father ACTUALLY SEEKS CUSTODY does he get it? it seems to me that in the majority of divorces, the father doesn't seek custody. but i don't have any actual data to back that up with.

[iverglas]

25. it's danged hard to find

largely because any google search that includes the words father and custody finds a lot of ... well, what was the subject of this thread? ;) ... and it's hard to find much else.

My vague recollection of seeing stats is that you're on the right track -- fathers who actually seek custody are statistically not terribly unsuccessful.

My very brief google did produce this interesting one -- an Ontario case involving a white mother and black father in which the father, uh, raised the race issue. <edit, my mistake - it was the appellate court that raised it on its own initiative!> Leaving that aside, I would just note what the commentator at the Ontario Women's Justice Network said:

Finally, it is of interest to note that Mr. Edwards did not initiate a claim for custody until Ms Can de Perre made an application for child support. He is not the first father to have decided to seek custody rather than pay support to a former partner. Although this is not a factor in the decisions at any of the three levels of court, it is a social factor and one not to be forgotten.

And certainly not the last.

[rantormusing]

11. criminalizing false claims of domestic violence in custody cases

Thank god for that, let's hope it goes national. I worked at a homeless shelter for a few years and saw several cases of men being victimized, physically and mentally by their female partners.

[musette_sf]

12. 92% of all domestic violence crimes are commited by men against women.

1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence.

So :puke: on your anecdotal non-evidence.

[rantormusing]

13. im not interested in gender flame wars

I'm sorry you feel threatened by men being victims of domestic violence, but if groups like these are trying to raise awareness that it happens then good for them. Straigt and gay men don't report and the false insinuation that only women are victims or can't be abusive is wrong. I was privy to a guy having to leave his house twice over false claims of abuse and he had the kids with him. The status quo is ridiculous with very little interest in looking past claims and stereotypes.

[musette_sf]

14. "im not interested in gender flame wars"

Then don't come to the WOMEN'S RIGHTS group and post disingenuous MRA crap.

I am not interested in your whining about the gender that has had ALL THE RIGHTS for millenia untold.

Go post on the Glenn (Nut)Sacks board and cry to him about how some evil feminazi peed in your Wheaties.


:nopity:

[rantormusing]

15. it's you who's fighting the gender war

And I've only said things that others have alluded to. It has nothing to do with rights but speaking out about what is right or wrong. I'm sorry if you feel insulted or grudged, but it is clear by your tone and comments that all you are interested in is getting one over on the other gender, which is sad since it is everyone who pays the price over lies and disinformation. I might as well leave you to your man bashing, but I have this thing about pointing out sexism when I see it.

[musette_sf]

17. If you don't like so-called "man-bashing",

then don't post in a Women's Rights group.

This thread is about the threat of so-called "men's rights" activists, who for the most part lie and cheat in order to screw over their ex-wives and the mothers of their children.

I'm not interested in a man's whining about the tiny percentage of men that allege physical violence by women. I'm also not interested in a man's whining about alleged "sexism" in domestic violence services and support. I'm bothered by your need to barge in on a Women's Rights group to attempt to derail a conversation about the dangers of these MRAs to women and their children.

You are being disruptive in this group to push your MRA personal agenda. I am not interested in the MRA agenda. Men had ALL the rights for millenia. Go live in Saudi Arabia if you think your agenda is so important, it's an MRA paradise.

Here's a link that was recently posted in the DU Feminists group, to an article in Ms. Magazine titled "Where the Men Are: Historic feminist conference convenes in Minnesota". Here are some men who are genuinely interested in gender equality and who are willing to walk the walk.

http://msmagazine.com/Fall2009/wherethemenare.asp

http://www.csbsju.edu/menscenter/conference/default.htm

The last paragraph of the article is particularly salient to the discussion in the topic you posted to, about the threat to women and children by so-called "men's rights" groups:

With “men’s rights” groups launching attacks against feminist progress and rates of violence against women remaining outrageously high and massively underreported, the gender justice movement needs strength in numbers. Schroeder and Hendrickson want to help recruit. “If you think feminism is bullshit, go check it out for yourself and then talk to me,” is one of the lines they plan to use. “Be open-minded enough to hear it and man enough to get involved. Just try it. What do you have to lose?”

[rantormusing]

16. im sure

I'm sure you'd prefer they suffer in silence or put up with it, that is about as calous as you can go. But u will leave you to your Cherry picked statistics, it is obvious you think any man had it coming.

[musette_sf]

18. Typical male control tactic, attempt to put words in women's mouths

and tell them what they are thinking.

Did it ever occur to you that women might be more sympathetic to the very tiny percentage of men in abusive relationships, if men like YOU didn't try to make it ALL ABOUT THE MENZ?

Please refer to the link below to "12 Helpful Suggestions for Men Regarding Conduct in Feminist Spaces"

http://community.livejournal.com/feminist/1362470.html

From the above, as regards your accusation of "sexism":

There is no such thing as "reverse sexism." Don't even think of trying that one on us. The fact that an individual man can be harmed by an individual woman does not override an entire misogynistic social system.

[JonQ]

19. I'm curious

how would you respond to a comment that contained as a retort "typical female control tactic"?

[musette_sf]

20. I'm curious

Why are you trolling the Women's Rights group, trying to stir shit up?

Do you think women don't know male control tactics when they see them?

After all, the sum total of history, with the exception of the last 50 years, is all ABOUT male control tactics.

Patronize much?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

22. Awwww. Are you sorry?

I'm sorry you feel threatened by men being victims of domestic violence

And I'm sorry you beat your dog.

I'm sorry if you don't get that.

[Ambreim80]

26. i cant believe this post

are you a M.R.A. or something?? if men are so tough, they shouldnt EVER be the victims of domestic violence, right? their almost ALWAYS the batterers, never the victim. like another poster said, you probably beat you're dog.

[niyad]

27. kick, because this needs to be repeated until people get it.

[SwampG8r]

28. you realize that always putting

quote marks around "mens rights" makes me think you dont feel men have any rights

[musette_sf]

29. You realize that from the death of the Earth religions,

until the early 20th century, ALL RIGHTS were "men's rights".

MRSa are a bunch of whiners who blame their poor choices on the feminist movement.

Men of quality don't fear women of equality.

The Male Privilege Checklist:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

[Scout]

30. "MRSa are a bunch of whiners who blame their poor choices on the feminist movement."

yup

:toast: :thumbsup: