"I also believe women's studies is absurd."

[Swamp Rat]

I just read this in GD. This was one of the most elitist and vile posts I've read in a while, stated by a member of my sex (I suppose). Even though I have never said anything like that, I feel the need to apologise to all women for all the crap men put you through. It is impressive how deeply rooted bigotry is in our society... especially when it surfaces on college campuses and progressive political boards.

Btw, my major professor is the head of Women's Studies at my university. She is one of the most intelligent humans I know, and would have failed any student who made that kind of inane and bigoted remark... and I would be there to support her. In fact, I've seen her rhetorically rip to shreds men twice her size, who aggressively attacked her first. She has gotten death threats, stalkers, you name it... from men, young and old, who are openly against "Women's Studies."

[Misunderestimator]

1. I love you Swamp Rat!

:loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

23. Ti amo, il mio Eurydice!

:hug:

[slor]

2. I took some Womens studies classes...

and they were very informative. Anyone that dismisses such broadening of the mind is, quite frankly, an asshole.

[Pachamama]

105. Me too! They were extremely "mind-expanding" for me at a time in my life

when I wasn't sure of who I was and what I wanted to become and do with my life and certainly related to my gender's "evolution" throughout history and the role we have played and ofcourse have been repressed.

Any statement that dismisses Women's studies is very uniformed and most likely a sexist and misogynist and frankly, someone who could use attending a few such classes.

[Solly Mack]

3. I'd thank you but I'm currently too busy being full of myself and my

womanhood.



Thank you, Swamp Rat!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

12. And laughing,

don't forget the laughing....

OUT ! Damn Solly!
OUT ! I say!

:rofl:

[Solly Mack]

16. Did I mention the mirror? There was a mirror involved...

"objects may be closer than they appear"

[beam me up scottie]

19. Oh the things we could have

done with digital cameras in our youth...

[beam me up scottie]

4. I love you too Swamprat but you don't need to apologize

for the knuckle-dragging warthogs of the world.
I of course would never actually call someone a knuckle-dragging warthog because my post would get deleted.

[libnnc]

7. oh yeah...

I think I called that turkey a turkey...

*gasp* did I type that?

[beam me up scottie]

10. Bad liberal!

:spank:

[Bunny]

8. Yeah, you'd get deleted, but the other crap would still stand.

My post got deleted, too. So I alerted on the thread, probably others did too. And it was finally locked.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Thanks for getting it locked.

This is still a progressive forum, isn't it?

[Misunderestimator]

14. I lost track of all the posts

that were deleted... and have no idea if one of mine was (which would irritate the crap outta me since I was being so restrained). I also alerted on the thread. Two hours later, the obvious flamebait is locked.

[Bunny]

20. Thanks for alerting too.

:thumbsup:

[Swamp Rat]

24. Too bad some of my posts got deleted.

Especially the one where I pointed out the blatant hypocrisy concerning the "narcissism." It had my newest, and quite apropos, artwork too! :(

[beam me up scottie]

27. I really like that one.

Very appropriate.

[libnnc]

5. You rock, Swamp Rat

Thanks. I couldn't believe some of the things posted in that thread. And I don't understand why some of our posts were scrubbed.

Still kinda seething here...:nuke:

[Bunny]

9. Took awhile for it to be locked, didn't it? n/t

[beam me up scottie]

26. Me too.

I've been trying to improve my asshole tolerance but some days it's tough.

[Bunny]

6. Thanks Swamp Rat!

That was a mind-bogglingly stupid thread. Hard to believe that kind of thinking still exists, isn't it? Just when you think you've heard everything, something like that comes along. :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

15. This is what we get

after decades of fighting for our rights?

Sickening.

I don't know if thinking like that is sexism, using that logic anything we don't personally witness doesn't exist.
It sounds more like a mental disorder.

[Journeyman]

13. Why would your professor fail someone who made an ignorant comment?...

Don't you believe she sees her role in the education process as one of educating the uninformed?

[Swamp Rat]

22. We are veering off into the subjunctive

I support her 100% if she chooses to fail a chauvinist bigot. One, these people take her classes ON PURPOSE to disrupt the education of others. I know this for a fact, but cannot divulge that information here.

"Don't you believe she sees her role in the education process as one of educating the uninformed?" - Yes, and these lizards learn very quick not to fuck with her. Good education for them, if you ask me.

[LoZoccolo]

37. I think we're veering off into the suckuptive, actually.

I guess I can't do anything about if you're into that...I just don't think it should be foisted upon academia.

So what university is this? You support her, right? That means you or her shouldn't be ashamed that this goes on, eh? So you're gonna tell us where this goes on?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

41. Nope.

That's not it.

[Warpy]

17. Thanks Swamp Rat

The good guys really do outnumber the MCPs on DU!

[Swamp Rat]

46. MCPs?

Male Corporate Prostitutes?

:D

[Swamp Rat]

18. HAHA! Suckers! I just wanted some female lovin'!

:hug: Just kidding! :D

Honestly, I will not put up with this kind of bigotry on DU! I guess I made some enemies due to my outspokenness, but I do this everyday. My great-grandmother, the matriarch of the family, taught me to fight for EVERYONE'S rights, but made damn sure I would not become a male chauvinist bigot like the other men in the family... she rewarded me with a Eurail Pass for my efforts! ;) Instead of drinking Budweiser on the couch, watching meaningless drivel on TV with my cousins, I was sipping wine in Venice with lovely people, surrounded by Titans and Botticellis while listening to Palestrina and Verdi. :)

[beam me up scottie]

29. I find it difficult to restrain myself

when I read "Why does Rush have any female listeners? Really think about that. Would women in the 70s tolerate that garbage? No. But modern women listen to that shit and they actually sign up for it! They actually AGREE that feminism has run amuck"
on a progressive forum and it's NOT somebody quoting anne coulter.
I had to read it several times, my brain could not process that kind of twisted logic.
I would love to see someone say stuff like that to us in person.
The term "go nuclear" would take on a whole new meaning.
:evilgrin:

[Swamp Rat]

31. The fallacy is embedded deep in the structure of those sentences and

the mind of its creator. The words "they" that "AGREE" are just openings into the Psyche of this person. I don't know if we should waste our time deconstructing this... perhaps we need to? Like Robin Tolmach Lakoff's book is titled, this is "The Language war." We need to fight it NOW!

edit: "Is" is spelled with an 'i' and an 's'. x(

[beam me up scottie]

35. Oy, I do get tired of fighting in

the Language war. It's a no win situation.
I am an atheist but some want to rename non believers because the reichwing has so successfully demonized us.
I am a liberal, also unpatriotic and vile thanks to rw propaganda.
And now I have to defend feminism to some snot-nosed over-privileged whelp?
I think I'll just start whacking the dumbasses over the head with the largest dictionary I can find.

(i use opera and my spell-checker even corrects the dirty words!)

[Swamp Rat]

42. Me too!

But we have to keep fighting because they have brought this language war right into our back yards, so to speak. Please, reread this whole thread now. ;)

[beam me up scottie]

59. I would EXCEPT MY POSTS KEEP GETTING DELETED.

:wtf:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

62. Welcome to my world

:eyes:

Women should be seen and not heard.

[LoZoccolo]

66. Yes, that's what it says in the DU rules.

In those exact words too. You are in direct violation, so it should be easy to see why your posts get deleted.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

69. I haven't had any deleted posts on this thread

I'm just saying in general.

Nice smug attitude, but once again YOU'RE WRONG. :rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

67. Dammit, I knew I never should have

let on that I was female.
Now I'm just another uppity bitch.

[Misunderestimator]

34. That is so cool!

Now I want to go to Venice... :)

[Pachamama]

106. The male gender needs more like you Swamp Rat!

:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

107. Oi Pachamama!

Muito obrigado minha! :hug:

Acho que tem gente que odiar as mulheres até ser psicopata!... das ist das Hassen der Frauen im Übermaß, ich denken. :(

[Pachamama]

113. Es gibt leider viele von solche "Frauen-Hasser"....

Und Gott sei dank haben wir Frauen-Lieber wie du! :hug:

[intheflow]

21. Swamp Rat is a real man!

Real men deserve real women's love and respect and you have won mine!

:hug: :loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

25. abraço

:hug:

[omega minimo]

28. Hey der Swompraht, you rawk da place

:hi:

I missed that thread-- it had 146 responses before being locked, so it's a hot topic on DU.

On an anonymous, presumably progressive and "respectful" board, it's always distracting to come upon crude/sexist language or attitudes. It makes the poster seem ignorant and kills interest in an otherwise intriguing thread.

[LoZoccolo]

30. "would have failed any student"

Silly me, thinking that people should pass or fail on the merits of their work related to the course, and that universities thrive on adversarial debate. I never considered that the personal-grudge angle to academia would be an enlightening one as well.

[Swamp Rat]

32. You called yourself silly!

:D I agree!

Nice frame. I'm smarter than that. :hi:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. Shouldn't you be posting inane Oasis threads in the Lounge?

Seems to be your forte. I'd stay out of serious discussions if I were you...

[LoZoccolo]

44. *yawn*

Guess I did have a point or something.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

45. A meaningless point...stick to things you know about

the experience of women in the US isn't one of them.

[LoZoccolo]

48. Ha ha ha ha.

This conversation has become stupid. I don't need to know anything about that to make my point.

:boring:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

50. Typical debate tactics of a junior high school student

or of something more obvious... :eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

53. Right!

Junior high is probably where people learn not to be distracted with personal attacks about bands you like, nor to be jackhammered with identity politics cards, and to stick to the point. It is so totally junior-high level. Sorry we're not getting past that, but first things first.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. I actually like Oasis

I was just commenting on your posting abilities. :-)

[beam me up scottie]

47. BWAHAHAHAHA

:rofl:

Amazing, we're being attacked by a bigot on du and people try to pick fights with the guys standing up for minorities?

[LoZoccolo]

49. Are you calling me a bigot?

Please clarify.

[beam me up scottie]

52. NO, the person attacking women is the bigot

I don't know enough about you to call you any names yet. :evilgrin:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

54. So is the person defending the bigot

[LoZoccolo]

57. That is a no-no.

As you'll soon find out.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. Is that a threat?

:shrug:

I don't get it. I was just saying *in general* that if someone defends a bigot, they should examine why they're doing it. If you're resorting to personal attacks, then I'll have to alert. This is just silly...

[LoZoccolo]

61. Nope, it's the rules.

I'll let someone else decide if you broke them.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. That was theoretical and not personal

unless, of course, you're paranoid.

[LoZoccolo]

68. You don't have to convince me.

It's outta my hands now.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

72. Baiting people is a no-no

and trying to control discourse is just cowardly.

[LoZoccolo]

73. Baiting?

This was between me and beam me up scottie before you responded.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

78. Exactly. History is on your side, Swamp Rat

[Swamp Rat]

80. OUR side

:hug:

[LoZoccolo]

79. *yawn*

Everyone thinks this is stupid.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

51. Like I said, any argument coming from someone who posts Oasis threads

has little credibility. That credibility is considerably weakened when they enter flamewars and parrot BS heard on talk radio.

*sniff* *sniff*

[LoZoccolo]

55. Talk radio? What?

I don't ever remember anyone talking about this guy's women's studies professor on the radio. Actually, if you have heard it, I'd like to know, so I can maybe trace back and figure out where it's happening, since the original guy won't tell me (even though he supports her).

Do you even remember what we started off talking about?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

60. He is respecting her anonymity. This is a public message board.

SwampRat is respecting her right not to be harassed by freepers. Don't you get it?

[LoZoccolo]

63. But there's nothing wrong with it.

It's not like she's breaching any ethics by failing people because of things outside of the academic criteria built around the course material, right? It should be nothing at all to her...remember, she can rip someone to shreds intellectually, which should come in handy if she's accused of doing unethical things.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

33. Edit: This post is dedicated to all the women at DU

who must put up with anti-women/female language and sentiment, embedded in many conversations and debates here. Now that THEY know WE (including a few men here and there) are onto them, they are going to attack us... not that they ever really stopped.

Suggestion: Read Robin Tomach Lakoff's book "The Language War." :)

Edit:

[beam me up scottie]

39. Thanks again Swamprat

for taking a bullet for our side!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

36. I love you, man!

I missed the shitstorm. what happened?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. It's COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!

I think it's just so damn hilarious! :rofl:

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

70. OH GOD YOU KILL ME!!!!

:rofl:

[LoZoccolo]

71. *yawn*

What a stupid thing to post.

[Swamp Rat]

74. OK, I am asking you nicely, PLEASE leave this thread now. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

81. Not nice to post DISRUPT DISRUPT DISRUPT DISRUPT like that.

Not nice at all.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

85. This is what I get for supporting women's rights/issues

A neo-Straussian lizard flew out of Rove's ass and attacked me!

D'oh! x(

[beam me up scottie]

86. STOP IT

I'm running out of keyboards....
:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

87. Isn't reality absurd?

HEY! Who turned on the light?!?

[beam me up scottie]

88. Has this place gone stark raving mad?

It's like the rw version of the twilight zone.
Since when do posters get to accuse women of using their sex as a crutch? What if it was another minority? Feminism is evil? Who talks like that? Does rush have kids?

[LoZoccolo]

89. For the record, I never said that.

Nor did I even say that women's studies are absurd. So I hope you're not talking about me.

[beam me up scottie]

91. NO, it's not about you.

This thread was in response to a bigot who posted for almost two hours on a previous thread.
Swamprat stood up for us. I hope I can return the favor sometime.

[Swamp Rat]

90. Yep

I called him on that, but MY post got deleted. Can you believe THAT? Though, not so subtle misogyny gets a pass... Twilight Zone indeed.

What's that smell? :D

[LoZoccolo]

92. You probably broke one or more of the rules.

You can make your point without doing that, you know.

I think it might be too late, but if I were you, I'd go back and get rid of your slanderous accusations against me before you get tombstoned.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

96. Why are you here?

What are you trying to accomplish?

Do you want the mods to delete my entire thread?

Are you trying to get me tombstoned?

Why are you still here?

[LoZoccolo]

97. Because in the course of your playing games...

...you made some serious allegations against me, which you haven't recanted, and I'm trying to get them off the message board because they are slanderous.

[Swamp Rat]

98. You threatened me and called me names in a thread I started.

This was a feel-good thread for others - it was not FOR or ABOUT you. I hope Skinner looks at the thread from end to end.

Anyway, Why are you here?

What are you trying to accomplish?

Do you want the mods to delete my entire thread?

Are you trying to get me tombstoned?

Why are you still here?

[LoZoccolo]

99. Why am I still here?

Because people keep responding to my posts?

I do want the mods to get rid of your thread, but I'm not trying to do it by getting into a big argument. I alerted it a long time ago because it violates the rule that you are not allowed to continue a flame war from another thread.

I'm not trying to get you tombstoned either. It's not my place to decide that.

[beam me up scottie]

102. So why didn't you leave it at alerting the mods?

Why start disrupting?
What is your agenda?

[Swamp Rat]

103. "I do want the mods to get rid of your thread" - You said it.

Finally the truth comes out. Thank you.

[beam me up scottie]

93. I'll have to read over the rules again,

because I obviously misunderstand quite a few of them.
Are racists allowed to continue if they toe the line ? I haven't been here long enough to remember anything even remotely similar to that.

[Hello_Kitty]

100. I missed that thread.

But I have encountered the DU Bigotry and Disrupting Double Standard. Offensive statements about women and downright Freeperish jibes at feminism are fine anywhere on this site. Disruptive troll-ery that would be unacceptable on any other type of forum (GLBT, African-American, Religious, etc.) is hunky-dory in the Women's Rights and Issues Forum. Just try to call out the perpetrators and you get your posts deleted.

[beam me up scottie]

101. I wish I would have missed it.

Although I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.

[Swamp Rat]

104. Thank you!

:hug:

I'm so sorry this has happened to women... this is why I started this thread. This is supposed to be a feel-good thread, and my small attempt at righting a wrong that has been perpetrated against women for millennia.

[Hello_Kitty]

108. You're welcome!

And your thread made me feel good, at least up until one of "the usual suspects" showed up. :yourock:

[Pachamama]

110. Ofcourse this is happening in this forum-it's a reflection of what happens

to women daily around the world in society, some worse than others...

So I guess we could say that the DU is a microcosm of the greater world around us and that it reflects the daily sexism and misogyny that we women are exposed to and have to endure...

Thank you for defending our gender Swamp Rat....Unlike some others on this board and in particular to a very obvious disruptor on this thread, there are those who genuinely care about the rights of women and respecting women and defending them. :hug:

[Senior citizen]

109. I'm glad I didn't see the original thread.

For five thousand years or so of patriarchy, the world has had only men's studies. Females were considered slaves or chattel and were not permitted to learn to read. In countries like Afghanistan you'll still find incredibly high rates of female illiteracy today, and very few schools for females.

Our own country only has a history of about a couple of hundred years. For most of this time females were generally not admitted to institutions of higher learning and were not allowed to enter the professions. And there were no women's studies, just men's studies, since students were assumed to be male and nobody protested if entire faculties were completely male.

Only recently have we seen large numbers of females getting graduate and professional degrees and almost every university has at least a few token female professors. I think this was the first year that females outnumbered males among entering law students. And many universities have women's studies programs, although not all have their own departments or offer degrees.

But progress is slow and there is a huge backlash. The more females accomplish, the more attacks from conservatives. That's because they don't want females to understand how patriarchy came about, and why they are raised differently from males and, on the average, paid less. Conservatives fear that if enough females learned that gender roles began with the captivity and enslavement of their female ancestors, who were then forced to raise their female children to be slaves and chattel, and their male children to be patriarchal warriors (death was the penalty for female slaves and chattel who refused to obey), females might start to deconstruct gender roles and raise their kids in an egalitarian manner without regard to sex.

That would be the end of patriarchy as we know it, and conservatives fear that more than anything. So they oppose women's studies programs that includes textbooks like those by Prof. Gerda Lerner that talk about what patriarchy is and how it operates. I only wish the conservatives were right--that more people understood patriarchy as a system that began with the enslavement and subjugation of females, enforced by violence, and maintains itself through violence to this day.

Our only hope for world peace is to become an ecologically viable species, and our only hope for viability is to end patriarchy as we know it and begin to act sensibly, non-violently, and in our own best interests as a species with a finite habitat. I don't see much hope of that happening this late in the game, but what little hope there is resides in women's studies programs. Thanks, Swamp Rat!

[Swamp Rat]

114. HEY Senior citizen!!! Long time no see!!!

I was just looking at one of your threads in this forum. I am SOO glad you are here! :hug:

"... females might start to deconstruct gender roles and raise their kids in an egalitarian manner without regard to sex." Yes, and some of us males are deconstructing and learning right along with, as well as FROM women. Thank the Orisha you are with us Senior citizen. We need the people of your generation (not the misogynist bastards) to help us.

"That would be the end of patriarchy as we know it, and conservatives fear that more than anything." - They know it and they are trying their hardest to stop us. Thanks for the Prof. Gerda Lerner reference as well as the Catharine MacKinnon reference in your thread. I will read it as soon as I am done with Robin T. Lakoff's seminal work. I am happy this thread is starting to heal ... this is the conversation I wanted to have hours ago. :)

Not only will I continue my own work in Women's Studies classes, but I am going to go full-bore with this issue, and racial injustice, my other major concern for this country and world. The horrifying things I am reading recently at DU has convinced me that we have a lot more work to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. my course on it was very good and interesting

but of course soem people feel threatened

And yes, assertive women are bitches or stupid (aka a thread to soem makes),while makes who are assertive are just being boys.

Trust me I encounter that in my line of work ALL THE TIME

[Swamp Rat]

112. I LOVE "assertive bitches!"

:loveya: I was raised by some. :)

[Moderator]

115. Locking ....

Continuation of a previous thread in GD. Flamefest.