'I lost my job because I was a man playing with children'

[Fire]

I got this from Somethingawful.com's Debate and discussion forum. Below is the article from The Observer posted by the original poster and following that, inside the <.quote><./quote> tags are comments to the article from the SA DnD thread. I wanted to get a perspective from feminists as Something Awful is predominantly male and libertarian. I shortened the articles because this forum seems to have rule against posting entire articles.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,11812,1509908,00.html

Philip Bennison, 55, from Cambridge, has been married for 33 years to Jane and has six children and eight grandchildren. He ran a printing business for 20 years, did youth work for 25 years and completed nine courses in caring for children. Here he tells Gill Swain why he believes men are right to avoid working with children

Sunday June 19, 2005
The Observer
....
I adored the job, but the restrictions imposed on me became unbearable. I have never been accused of abusing a child, but I was judged to be "too tactile". I lost my job, in effect, for being a man playing with children.
....

One day a girl of nine ran up crying, saying she had been bullied by two boys. She leant her head on my chest and I put a comforting arm around her. For that I was given a written warning. Apparently, when she put her head on my chest it was "child-led touching", which was acceptable, but when I responded it was "adult-led touching", which was not. I was told that if it happened again I should fetch a female playworker. later paragraphs say that female employees were not given the same restrictions



http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,11812,1509908,00.html

anecdotes from the same forum I found this on:

mlmp08 came out of the closet to say:
Tbe problem with working with kids is, they can say whatever the fuck you want and it ruins you, professionally. My ex-girlfriend worked with kids, and I can never imagine her doing ANYTHING to hurt a kid. She was told that "someone" had seen her dragging a child across the pavement by the ankle. The time cited was when the only people in the building were staff and children, and of the 4 children in her age group she was caring for, 1 was a constant liar, about everything from what color her shoes were to making up a story about how her father had killed 4 policemen in their front lawn.

Yeah, she got fired because of that one report with zero chance to defend herself.

grobo came out of the closet to say:
I worked with kids as a volunteer for two days a few years ago. I'm a big friendly looking guy and most kids tend to graviate to me. It only took a couple of hours before all the kids were comfortable around me. Little girls and boys were trying to get on my lap every time I sat down; the usual stuff kids do around adults. Some of the looks the women gave me were less than enthusiastic, and I realized almost instantly that I was taking a massive risk by putting myself into a situation like that and got right the fuck out. All it takes is for one shrill idiot to fling an accusation at you and your life is pretty much changed forever.

A good friend of mine works in a halfway house for problematic adolescents and it's the same thing. By policy he can't be out of sight of a female co-worker at just about any time. A lot of it is for his protection as well though.. If a teenage girl gets out of control and has to be physically restrained, he says most of them start screaming rape almost instantly just to get back at them, or if not that then accusing the workers of groping them afterwards. It's a pretty sad society we live in.

Hemogoblin! came out of the closet to say:


This sort of behavior is so acceptable that the abusers often write books about it - there's no stigma attached to being a female child abuser, but there's stigma attached to just being a male. Period.

This is as bad as those "moral hygiene" films from the 50's. Oh look - here's one about homosexuals! Watch this film, and note the similarities to the current situation.

http://www.archive.org/details/boys_beware

Fire came out of the closet to say:





Choadmaster came out of the closet to say:

For those that have never been in the situation, it is amazing how difficult this can be to do.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a part of the US that is relatively liberal in that respect. When I was a camp counselor, at the end of the standard child-safety lecture (which included sensible things like never go into a bathroom alone with a child) we were warned: "The children will use you as mobile jungle gyms. Don't be afraid to tell them to stop if it gets to be too much!"

And so they did. There was not a single moment where any of us did not have a kid on his shoulders (if standing) or lap (if sitting) - that is what children do! They are the most tenaciously clingy creatures in the universe when given the opportunity; it is perfectly normal. At the time, I was fortunate that my only reason to refuse them was because it was someone else's turn (something most kids will understand).

Later, while visiting a friend of mine in another state, I accompanied him to work at an after-school/weekend kids program for a few days. He'd warned me not to be too physical with the kids, but when a boy asked me for a piggyback ride it didn't even occur to me that might be considered inappropriate! It was fortunate I was a clueless visitor; when I was "caught" by one of the female employees I got off easy.

Shocked, I spent the rest of the day carefully observing the male employees' interactions with the kids. The kids spent a large portion of their play time trying to physically interact.. they had gotten pretty good at starting off small and escalating the interaction with the adults - tagging, grabbing, poking etc. would eventually lead to a kid trying to climb or jump onto an adult's back. At that point either the man would back off and tell the child to stop, or the aforementioned female employee would swoop in and berate both parties (actually, when present she would generally step in much earlier - anything more than a pat on the back was 'inappropriate").

It was a sad and frustrating thing to watch.

And then came the kicker: At snack time, when all the kids were sitting on some bleachers munching on apples (okay, junk food), this woman sat down and pulled a child into her lap. At the time I was clearly naive; I had stupidly assumed the rules applied equally to everyone.

Over the next few days I heard lots of kids ask one man or another why he wouldn't let them sit in his lap... " lets me do it all the time!" They always left confused or hurt because the only real answer is one that is too stupid and nonsensical to try to explain to a kid: Because I'm a man.

It has gotten to the point where if a man is even willing to put up with this crap to work with kids, he is still essentially walled off from them; this paranoia has far surpassed the point where it does more harm than good. No man is going to diddle little Johnny in the middle of the playground during recess! To deny every kid the right to act like a kid, to get the kind of interaction and attention the need just because some guy out there maybe might possibly enjoy giving little Johnny a piggyback ride a little too much hurts every kid and helps none.

There are already plenty of sensible cautionary measures out there (like no adult should be alone with a kid). If anything, it is those rule that need more attention and stricter enforcement (god knows how many times I myself ended up taking kids to the bathroom by myself.. nobody really paid attention). Most importantly, whatever rules are applied must be applied equally to everyone; no man should ever be put in a position of trying to explain to a kid why the kid can sit in Jenny's lap but not his.

Captain-Obvious came out of the closet to say:

"We understand the stigma that is thrust upon men who choose to work with children, and we understand that that stigma leads to much unfounded suspicion. However, to allow parents to have peace of mind, we do not approve of men working with young children, unless they really, really, really want to. I mean, we're talkin' someone who wants only to work with small children as much as possible and will do anything and bear any kind of stigma to do it. Surely this policy will make for a safer environment."


and here is another article


He grabbed girl's arm -- now he's a sex offender
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-molest01.html
July 1, 2005

BY STEVE PATTERSON Staff Reporter

Fitzroy Barnaby said he had to swerve to avoid hitting the 14-year-old Des Plaines girl who walked in front of his car.

She said he yelled, "Come here, little girl," before getting out of his car and grabbing her by the arm.

He said he simply lectured her.

She said she broke free and ran, fearful of what he'd do next.

In a Thursday ruling, the Appellate Court of Illinois said the 28-year-old Evanston man must register as a sex offender.
....




It appears I am having some technical difficulties as the quote tags that I copied and pasted are not showing up. They make horizontal bars on other forums.

[China_cat]

1. I guess you aren't up on the latest

at least around here and at one hospital in Pgh where my sister was a nurse, childbirth and parenting classes are teaching that men should not be allowed to diaper or bathe their children as the temptation to abuse is too great.

We worked most of my adult life to try to get men to realize that they are just as responsible for the children they create...from being in the delivery room to changing diapers and giving baths to being room 'mothers' to being sports coaches for their daughters as well as their sons and now medical professionals are telling women that they can't trust their husbands not to molest their own children. Even when there's never been any kind of indication that a man would do something like that.

It's absolutely outrageous and an insult not only to every man who is a father, grandfather, or uncle but to the women who, by inference, would be associated with men who couldn't be trusted sexually with children.

[iconoclastic cat]

4. Are you kidding? Wow. I googled that idea but came up with zip.

I found a lot advocating just the opposite. Is this in SC, or something?

[China_cat]

5. SC, and, like I said, at least one hospital in Pgh

and a lot of it is coming from 'childbirth and parenting' educators.

My own daughter-in-law was told this in a military hospital when she had my grand daughter. It scared the shit out of her because she had been molested as a child and it took years before she trusted my son with his kids. They almost ended up divorced because of it.

[iconoclastic cat]

7. That is so damn sad.

I hope she has sought some therapy. I hope they both have. How the hell could she stay in a relationship at all with that kind of psychological damage?

BTW, what exactly does "Pgh" mean? Is that an abbreviation?

[China_cat]

9. Sorry. Pgh=Pittsburgh

Yes, they have gone to therapy together. Their oldest is 16 now. It's taken a lot of hard work but they're going on 20 years together. I give them a lot of credit for not taking an easy way out.

[iconoclastic cat]

10. Ah, the Pitts! There's a reason why they're losing population, you know...

And industry...and anyone under the age of 40...

[China_cat]

12. But the city sure is clean these days.

[whistle]

2. Maybe the original roles of men and women in the workplace

...is what a sick society such as America has to return to: i.e. men work in the non-physical contact jobs like assembly lines, manufacturing, repairmen and women in the nurturing jobs like teaching restaurant servers, receptionist, just like it was in the early to mid-twentieth century. Reinstate the former pay scales and pay differentials also. And, no more tampons in the trenches baby!

Where is Newt Gingrich when he is most needed?

[wakeme2008]

3. Grrr

I do not know how many times I have heard.. There are not enough MALE role models. But they push men out of these positions...

Then there is shit like what happened to a male music teacher in St. Pete. On Friday, a jury found him not guilty of sexually abusing a 8 yo girl in class. It took the jury 40 minutes to come back with the verdict. That was a no brainer slam dunk....

Why did the SA(DA) bring the case in the first place is beyond me. My jaw hit the floor when I read that the mother of the one child with bleeding in her panties also said she had found blood in her 10 year old sister's underwear and that she was exhibiting precocious sexual behavior. As Mark Fronczak's attorney Patrick Doherty say in closing "This began when the child was with her family. ... Two kids are bleeding..Do I know who in the family did this? No. Why? Because no one investigated it."


In the end, the teacher is out of work, down $25,000-$45,000.... But free.

[fasttense]

6. Wow, I never knew even professional care givers had that problem.

My husband stayed at home and raised our two kids for many, many years and I found that the other mothers wouldn't let their children come over when he was the only care giver at home. I always thought that was strange. I never thought it would extend to professionals as well.

I can't believe they are not encouraging fathers to give baths and change diapers? What idiocy. Do they really think changing a diaper or bathing the kids will cause fathers to turn into pedophiles???? If I even had the slightest hint that my husband would prefer children to me, I can guarantee I wouldn't have married him or had children by him. Changing their diapers or bathing kids is not what makes adults prefer children as sexual partners.

[Fire]

8. you would think

When was the last time anyone felt more attracted to someone because they shat their pants and had to have someone help them change?

[China_cat]

11. It's this attitude of 'don't trust anybody'

everybody's out to get you and your little dog, too.

[wakeme2008]

13. LOL they can have this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3572214&mesg_id=3572214

:)

[noamnety]

14. It goes both ways

I teach at a high school, and male and female staff have been advised at staff meetings to make sure if we are meeting with a student, that we keep the door open, specifically to avoid the appearance of anything wrong.

(Which would be great if our doors actually had door stops, heh. So obviously that rule isn't followed too well.)