I think I need advice.

[Jackie97]

This seems like the weirdest place to come to, but here it goes. This isn't completely political in nature. I hope you all don't mind. I'm taking this Women and Gender Studies class. It's not the first one I've taken, but this one's different. In this case, I feel like the professors are preachy, think us younger people are stupid, and think we're conservative. Let me explain.

The topic of the day was about fraternities, binge drinking, and their often conservative nature (anti-homosexual, racist, etc). (I'm not accusing all conservatives of being this way, but this is the stereotype of them because of a lot of people who call themselves conservatives and their behavior). I don't know if this represents most fraternities or not, but that's how the article we read portrays them.

I think she asked us how familiar we were with fraternities and some other college related issues to college women. She seemed to be surprised to see that most of us aren't into fraternities, their parties, or anything similar at all (the class of course has men and women to ask the question to). She asked us how used we were to conservative type of life portrayed in the fraternities (like drinking, homophobia, racism, etc; and she didn't call it conservative). Many weren't familar with it. Many were (like me). She seemed to be surprised that we weren't joining these types of groups and weren't conservative and stuff.

After realizing how unfamiliar we were to certain parts of college life (the supposedly conservative part obviously), she then asked if we knew that the president replaced the head of home security. Most of us raised our hands, and I think one of the professors said "That's not good". It seems that they think that we should know more about the college life than about broader issues. Not that nearby politics isn't good, but really. I think there was also a dumb idea going into that professor's head that just because we knew more about the broader issue meant we were into Bush or something. I don't know what the heck was going through her head.

She talked to us about the Jennifer Anniston and Brad Pitt break up. She asked questions about whether we knew who they were and stuff (She wanted to know if we were stupid).

The two professors (mostly the one I keep speaking of) kept asking questions in a way where I think she was expecting a certain answer. It reminded me of when I was in church years ago. We were asked in Sunday School if we thought teens should be allowed to get birth control without parental permission. I knew we were expected as "Good Christian kids" to say "No", but I said "Yes". The kid beside me said "No", but that they could use a condom (which also offended the teacher). This class reminded me of that. I think she was wanting specific answers. When she didn't get the answer she thought we should give, she seemed to have this "Just as I thought. They're not feminists and they have so much to learn" type of attitude. I didn't like it at all.

In all, the professor seemed to look down upon us because she appeared to think that we weren't real feminists (as a lot of older feminists think of younger feminists) and she appeared to be preachy in her own way. As it is, the book we had to buy was called "Feminism is for Everybody". It appears to be a good book, but the title makes me think that she already assumes none of us in her class are feminists. She means well, but she seems to be coming off like a holier than thou preacher.

Is some of this my imagination? Is there a really just a personality clash? I've never felt this way about the professor in a Women and Gender Studies class before. Should I talk to my professor? If so, what is a nice way to talk to her without coming off offensive? Not that I want to bond with my professor or anything. I just don't want to go nuts with her attitude all semester. I guess I will. LOL.

Hope this doesn't offend anybody here. I was not stereotyping any type of person. I was just speaking about stereotypes of fraternities, younger people, conservatives, etc. I don't mean it to come off a certain way.

[EC]

1. Did anyone ask her what the point was to her questions?

Did she give out a synopsis at the beginning of the course to tell you what you would be studying? Ask her how her questions relate to the course, let her know you're serious about the subject and do not see where she was going with the "polling". Are you sure this class is supposed to be about feminism or is it the Conservative version of anti-feminism? Sounds like they thought you should be into shallow things like Brad/Jennifer.

[Jackie97]

10. The class.

It's supposed to be an introduction to feminist theories class. I figured that if I was going to be somebody big on feminist activities, feminist writing, and such, then I should learn something about the theories.

[aePrime]

2. wow

The whole thing does seem rather condescending. I, however, just want to touch on the fraternity thing a bit.

I am currently a graduate student, and spent most of my undergraduate career living in a fraternity. I held many offices, including president. I am still involved on the graduate side of things (Board of Governors, more administrative).

Our school is largely Greek. Last time I counted, we had twenty-three male fraternities, and eight or nine female fraternities or sororities. None of the female houses allow drinking on their property. I would say about half of the male fraternities do. My fraternity voluntarily went dry (no alcohol) when I was about half way through my undergraduate degree. I rarely drink, and was a proponent of the move. Many fraternities are going dry, and many of their own free will (or, as is more likely, by mandate of their national organization. Ours was a local decision).

I live in a very conservative state (Idaho), but I would estimate that about half of my brothers are liberals. Some I know for sure to be flaming liberals like me (like the current president), and some I know to be very conservative. I think the sample of our fraternity's political leanings, however, does not meet the ratio of the state. I believe we are a lot more liberal.

Last statistic I heard had Idaho at about 90% white. I can think of several minority members who lived in the house the same time I did, probably putting us at about 90% white over my time. We even had a Hispanic president. When I visited our chapter in Fullerton, they were probably 50% white.

So, while some fraternities do still meet the stereotype, there have been a lot of changes in the system since the days of Animal House, and I am not sure the stereotypes hold up now as they once did.

[Jackie97]

11. That's a lot of what we were talking about.

We were supposed to answer the question of whether the college (not the individual fraternity) should let boys be boys and allow them to drink. The main argument for it was that the drinking was supposedly being taken some place else and being made more dangerous (which I can believe in some cases). One of the main arguments against it was that we shouldn't let boys be boys when we're not going to allow girls to be the same way (a lot like the stay a virgin rule).

What I kept thinking was that females should of course be socially included into stuff like this; stop acting like only males should get drunk. However, I was thinking about the fact that it's illegal. Couldn't a college be held responsible for telling a group of people (many of which are under twenty-one) that they can drink? Even though I don't agree with that rule, I figure there's a reason behind it. The reason is that some younger people have literally drank themselves to death. To me, it wasn't completely an issue of the boys vs. the girls. It was an issue of law and it was an issue of safety. I guess I should have gotten more involved in fraternities so I could experience its sexist nature. Maybe I would have been wanting to scream more about it too.

So, you really think telling the groups to go dry works? Does it?

[aePrime]

13. Ahh, now that is an interesting issue

Our system is not perfect, whether you are speaking of my fraternity or the university policy.

I will start with the university. They allow drinking on campus (in the dorm, in the fraternities, etc.), but they do not condone underage drinking. Since they are usually not the ones to enforce policy, you can argue that in that since they are condoning it; university officials do not come to parties to check for underage drinking, and it would be naive to assume that they do not know it happens.

On the other hand, they leave the enforcement up to somebody who is more prepared for what that brings: the city police, under agreement with the university, patrol the campus. This in itself is an interesting problem. Many underage drinkers are busted while they are walking to or from a party, but rarely do the police enter a party. They know there is typically underage drinking. I am not a law expert, but I do not think that probable cause applies in this case, because they are just assuming (most likely correctly) that a law is being broken, but they really have no proof except for prior history.

A short anecdote: in my early years at the university, the police came to our house for a noise complaint during a party (obviously, before we had gone dry). My underage friend was in the foyer, drinking from a cup. When somebody answered the door, the cop told him/her about the noise complaint, and then proceeded to enter the foyer, at which time he was asked to leave. He spotted my friend, tested the contents of the cup, and then wrote him a ticket for underage drinking. Fair enough, right?

My friend got the ticket thrown out because the cop was asked to leave, and apparently did not have enough probable cause to enter the premises.

Now back to fraternities and sororities. Our national policy on drinking is that drinkers of age may consume alcohol on the property behind closed doors. Of course, this was never followed. One of the first items of our bylaws states that members will follow local, state, and national laws, meaning no underage drinking. The rules are in place, it is the fraternity men who choose to ignore them.

As far as I know, there is no university/college that states male fraternities may be wet, but not female fraternities or sororities. All female fraternities or sororities are, as far as I know, dry on their own accord. Is this removing a right from the fraternity/sorority member? I do not believe so. They have the right to join the house or not.

Did my fraternity going dry in the middle of a year invade on the rights of the members? Again, I do not believe so, because it is stated in our fraternity's constitution that we are a democratic society, and we went dry by majority rule. This leads me to my next point.

There is a small faction that does not agree with being a dry house. There is one older member, in particular, who manages to persuade others that we should be wet. He and his followers have broken the rules on many occasions, and we, as the Board of Governors, were naive and trusting that the rules were being upheld until recently.

They too like the argument that they should be able to drink at home because it is safer. I generally do not agree. They say that they will get in a car wreck or something on the way home. If they drive drunk, that is their own fault. They know better. I do not think that is a valid argument to be able to drink in the fraternity. They can get a designated driver. On the other hand, there has been a rash of drinking-related deaths in fraternities this year.

So, in short (ha!), I think that telling groups to go dry only partially works. I think that once this one member graduates (or we finally kick him out), things will be a lot smoother. He is very persuasive with the younger members. I think that if a group is to go dry, they have to have entered the group knowing it was dry (and therefore, that is their expectation), or that the decision has to come from within, with either no dissent, or with people who respect their peers enough to respect their majority opinion. Our situation meets none of these criteria.

[lavenderdiva]

3. Hey, Jackie97!

I don't know where you are going to school, if it is a conservative university, or a more liberal area... I also don't know how old your professor is.. However, my guess is that your professor is at least as old as I am, so I will take a stab at trying to perhaps explain her surprise at your insight. I say that without knowing exactly the way she spoke to you guys in class. I imagine it was more surprise than anything (I would like to hope pleasant surprise!).

Growing up, my mother was part of the first wave of feminists. She drilled certain aspects of the movement in to both my sister's and my head. Getting out of college, I was pretty naive as to how the real world worked, until I had been around awhile. A lot of what she tried to teach us is, indeed, true. However, I did find that the 'edge' that a lot of the people my mother's age had, turned off a lot of us newbies. I found that they thought that if you hadn't lived a lot of what they had, and experienced a lot of what they had experienced, they just thought you couldn't understand. Some of that is true. It WAS a LOT harder for them, than for me, and, I imagine, it was harder for my generation than yours. Each successive generation has broken through new and old barriers, and made it just a bit easier for the next generation. My feeling is that lack of exact experience should not detract from the fact that each of you uphold a lot of the same values and see things from a similar perspective.

Perhaps this professor is a bit surprised that someone as young as you could recognize a lot of the issues, and agree with them, that women must face. (Her questions about Brad Pitt & Jennifer Aniston are curious; don't really know how that would fit into a classroom setting!) It sounds as if your parents have done a remarkable job in raising a conscientious young lady, a thoughtful one too. Perhaps, her experience as a professor has led her to think that most students your age ARE a part of the frat-life, and do not have any inkling of what is happening in the outside world. To have a classroom of informed people might just be a new experience for her too!

I think you will find, as you continue your studies that you will not always agree with your professors. Hopefully, you will find more with whom you do see eye-to-eye. However, that is all part of the college experience: Learning to think for yourself, and develop your own opinions. Don't let others think for you. Take what you need from each professor's knowledge and experience, and leave the rest.

Curious to know, what year are you, and what are you studying?

[aePrime]

5. To be fair

Perhaps, her experience as a professor has led her to think that most students your age ARE a part of the frat-life, and do not have any inkling of what is happening in the outside world.

To be fair, this is an apt description of many "frat boys". I know, I have to teach them quite often. But I would also like to point out that it is hardly representative. You should see some of the political arguments that our fraternity members get into. Perhaps we are just not typical, but I will take this time to raise the fact that the Greek GPA on our campus has been, for as long as I have been here, higher than the dorms and the all-campus average. Depending on one's mood, one may choose to infer that this means the fraternity members are more scholastically oriented, which may in turn lead to higher outside consciousness. That, of course, is simply speculation.

[lavenderdiva]

6. Thanks aePrime for your comments...

I'm sure, if you are currently involved in teaching at the university level, your observations are much more informed than mine. My reference point is Tulane University, in New Orleans, where I attended over 25 years ago, and the Dekes were running rampant, just like 'Animal House'! While I did not participate in frats/sororities at college (I was one of only 2 women in Engineering at the time, and quite ostracized for it), I did go through rush, and didn't really like what I saw. Tulane still has quite a reputation as a party school. My niece is preparing to enter college next year, and I find her to be much more thoughtful and well-informed than I ever was at that age. I'm sure, if she decides to pledge a sorority, it will be one that reflects her beliefs and values, which would be of a high standard. That would also validate your point about all frats/sororities not being the same.

[aePrime]

7. Thank you, as well

I am not trying to brush off the criticism of fraternities; much of it is well-warranted. I am simply sharing my experiences.

When I was in high school, I thought I would never join a fraternity. I held the same stereotypes that many hold. However, I did have several friends who joined, and that is how I became involved. Through time, I realized that I just liked the guys, and that fraternity life was better than dorm life. Not all have the same experience.

And sorority rush is no fun. I know many sorority women (including my wife). It is not for everybody: some hate it, some adore it.

Also, as far as women's right go (which is kind of the topic of this thread), our fraternity is required to hold sexual awareness risk management sessions every semester (sexual harassment, rape, etc.). I have been to quite a few good ones.

[Jackie97]

12. Hi.

The school I'm going to is considered to be a liberal one because it has lots of liberal groups, but it's in a strange area where backlash against the left can get ugly. :)

The Jennifer Anniston/Brad Pitt thing fit in because Anniston is being "blamed" for the split up on a count of she doesn't want to have kids. They asked us who was to blame. I'll agree that Anniston isn't to blame. I sort of wondered if this wasn't an area where she wanted a certain answer though. I didn't blame Pitt either. If he wants kids, he wants kids. I keep thinking it's the responsibility of the couple to talk about this before they go so far. If one of them changes their mind in the middle of the relationship, then I don't really see it as anybody's fault.

I'm a senior studying History. This is my last semester, and I decided that I probably don't want to teach. Any job suggestions for a person with any BA degree? LOL.

I understand that the older generation went through a lot more, and that there's no way I can really acquire that type of knowledge and wisdom. And of course, I'm so grateful that they had it in them to fight the system for themselves and for future women. That's one reason I've been fighting the system lately. I'm fighting for the kids I care about and will have. I want abortion rights to still be there when they grow up, and I want to take those crazy abstinence only systems out before they get a lot of kids killed from diseases. Of course, I'm also fighting that crazy draft because once it gets passed, it's compulsory. My kids in the future will have to join. I guess because of all the front burner issues (some not considered feminist issues), I haven't been taking seriously certain things that older feminists fought for that still are a serious problem (like equal pay for women). Maybe I can get more into that stuff once we get the nut out of the white house in four years. I don't mean to come off as apathetic to some of the original causes.

Maybe the professor is surprised to see that we're more informed. I'll keep that in mind.

[DURHAM D]

4. Not sure what you are asking ??

I am an old feminist but realize that younger people have a completely different set of issues and ideas. I admit that one thing that surprises me is that young people who self-define as feminists are often completely unfamiliar with recent history and in particular do not seem to realize that reproductive rights are hanging by a thread. Since they have always had such rights they are absolutely unable to imagine a world without choices.

At any rate, don't bother to talk with the professors - you will only be disappointed. Remember, most university professors are a little out of the mainstream and often socially inept due to too many hours spent in the stacks.

So, I just stereotyped an entire profession.

[imenja]

9. your stereotype is somewhat valid

but that doesn't mean she shouldn't bother talking to her professors. My students feel comfortable talking with me, I can assure you, despite all the time I've spent in the stacks.
They stop by my office to chat about school, work, and their personal lives all the time, so they must feel comfortable.

[imenja]

8. I'm sure it's not your imagination

Whether or not she intended to give that impression, that was how you perceived it, and your perceptions are valid. My main question is, do you feel that she is the sort of professor that encourages differences of opinion? Are you expected to take an article on face value, or does she welcome criticisms of that article or any other point of view?
I teach college history. All professors have points of view. Many of us try not to "preach" but it's impossible not to let your views be evident at times. I tell my students that mine is not the only opinion that is acceptable. I assign primary documents (this semester declassified CIA and State Dept. documents) and encourage students to use those documents to develop arguments that differ from my own. I also take great care to develop questions for exams and papers that don't have right or wrong answers but encourage students to think critically and develop their own arguments. I generally make this clear to students on the first day of class. (Of course they don't necessarily believe me, but hopefully during the course of the semester they come to see that I mean it).
I offer my own teaching philosophy here because what I'm wondering is if your professor shared any of her views about knowledge, point of view, etc.... Despite the fact that she steers the discussion in a particular direction, might she welcome different points of view?
You might try raising a disagreement with one or her arguments in class and see how she handles it. If she is not open to alternative points of view, you might consider finding another class. I presume it is early enough in the semester that you can still drop and add.

[chicaloca]

14. That's weird

At my university, the feminist theory classes are higher-level classes. Does the class have prerequisites? If it does, it's strange that they would start out assuming that everybody is at such a low level of understanding feminist issues. Also, while I do know a lot of people at college who fit the stereotypes that your professors seem to expect, not many of them have been in my women's studies classes. Shallow partiers and guys from the more sexist fraternities don't generally take well to women's studies. :P It does seem to me like you might be witnessing the divide between older and younger feminists.

[seaj11]

15. Some professors

definitely view themselves as being more educated and enlightened, and get a little bit preachy. I'm a freshman, living in a conservative area, and I've had several professors who show a clear liberal bias and "talk down" to his/her students. Perhaps your professor was trying to get a feel for the prevailing attitudes in the class so she could focus her attention on the most important points in her teaching. (Wow, that was awkward.)

You're not alone! :-)

Elle
http://www.nophicent.org
for all who love literature
http://geertzian.blogspot.com
a culture and politics blog

[imenja]

16. Liberal bias in academia

I'm sure many of your professors are liberal, and a significant number left of liberal. That is one of the hazards of education. There is a direct correlation between level of education and political views. In aggregate terms, the less educated people are, the more likely they are to be conservative or vote Republican. Americans with graduate degrees overwhelmingly vote Democratic and identify themselves as liberal, progressive, or leftist. Generally, higher education encourages critical thinking, which leads to a leftist point of view. (Though, as DU demonstrates, being liberal doesn't necessarily mean one thinks critically or even thinks at all.) That's part of the reason the Right has sought to define "elite" in terms of education and culture rather than income level. In current political language, someone with a PhD who earns $40,000 a year is somehow an "elite," while a CEO who makes several million dollars a year is not. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.