Why women don't relax

[barb162]

Why women don't relax

Men fish, play golf, watch football, play computer games. Women shop. But don't confuse that with having fun, says Germaine Greer - men may spend their free time relaxing, but for women it's just another form of work

Thursday May 4, 2006
The Guardian


Women either don't do leisure, or they do free leisure, or at best cheap leisure, or they fail to perceive any difference between work and leisure. Ask what a woman's leisure activity is and you're apt to be told, "Shopping." Shopping is grinding toil that women mistake for play. Men stand bemused as women trudge from shop to shop looking for something better or cheaper than another thing that is virtually identical, wondering why they didn't buy what they wanted at the first shop that had it in stock. Men don't understand that if you haven't come close to dropping, then you haven't shopped. Men buy; women shop.
Most women would say that they have very little time to themselves. The time they don't spend working for the employer and the taxman they spend doing something called "housework", to which, for most women between the ages of 25 and 50, may be added "childcare". There is also the onerous task of body maintenance, keeping the otherwise disgusting female body clean, tidy, deodorised, made up, not to mention toned and becomingly clad, plus the exhausting, sometimes painful and expensive business of hair and hairiness management. Work, all of it.

There are powerful historical reasons for women's imperviousness to the demands of leisure. The typical world citizen - who is still female, illiterate and an unpaid family worker - knows only too well that if she is ever to be seen with her hands in her lap, a job will be found for her. In traditional societies, the high days and holidays on which menfolk are permitted to straighten their backs and put on clean clothes are the days on which the women have to work the hardest, smartening up the house and putting together giant meals. It is not so long ago that on Sundays, while rest of the family frolicked, the woman of the house had to cook and serve a three-course Sunday lunch and clean up after it.

snip

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/consumer/story/0,,1767331,00.html

[Kutjara]

1. It's good to see Germaine hasn't lost any of her bite...

...as she glides defiantly into her 60s. This is as good an exposition of the genetic divide vis-a-vis housework and, particularly shopping as I've seen.

Fortunately, I am blessed with a wife who has as little interest in housework as I do. Well, that's not quite true. While I adhere to Quentin Crisp's maxim "after two years , it won't get any dirtier), she at least has the self esteem to demand that we clean the place whenever it all becomes too much.

In the realm of shopping, however, she is a 'typical' woman: Early in our relationship I used to accompany her on shopping trips, but when I discovered the sheer frustration and futility that is the hallmark of the experience, I had to withdraw or else go mad. I remember standing around in stores waiting for her to emerge from the fitting room for so long that store security asked why I was there. At the end of the glacial process, she'd emerge with a single pair of shorts, only to dither for another fifteen minutes before putting them back and leading me off to the next store.

My own shopping trips involve either whirlwind impulse buying (for clothes) or meticulous home research and then a decisive purchase (for technology, cars, anything else really). I vastly prefer to shop for food online; she relishes the supermarket experience.

There was a study reported on the BBC website a few years back saying that shopping can reduce a woman's blood pressure by up to 30%, while increasing a man's by a similar amount. I wonder how many male heart attacks occur within walking distance of Nordstrom's?

Anyway, we've resolved our shopping incompatibility. I stay at home and then agree that everything she's bought is 'lovely.'

Hey, it works for me.

[happyslug]

3. Let me be Sexist for a minute

One of the Differences between men and women is their relationship to other men and women. Men want to be a member of a group, thus men play a lot of group games (Baseball, Basketball, Football, Soccer etc). Even Hunting is generally done as a member of a larger group (Few men go hunting alone). The same with Golf, tennis, and the other non-team games, men tend to go as a group and while they are competing with each other, they are also interacting with each other and forming into a "team".

Women, on the other hand rarely play team sports (There has always been women team sports, but even now 30 years after Title IX was passed most women play individual games more than team sports). AS to the individuals sport (Golf, Tennis etc) while more and more women are playing these sports (and always have) they are NOT the "male-bonding" that occurs among men. In fact most women play the sport their MAN plays or do something that supports his "play" (you have exceptions but I am trying to be a general as I can be).

In my opinion I think this is just hard wired into both sexes, men want to do things with other men as a member of a "Team", while women want to support their man in role as member of his "Team". This probably goes back to the hunting/Gathering days of Human development. The Men hunted for larger game as a member of his clan or group, while the women supported those activities AND supplemented it by "Gathering" (Which can include hunting any game the women came across while "Gathering". Shopping is today's form of "Gathering", in shopping women has found a substitute for looking over the plants and Animals by looking for thing to buy. Women have also substitute the "old Division" of labor by continue to cook and prepare the meals for her "man" and her family.

Thus the difference between men and women is women relax by looking at things for later use (Gathering), preparing things for her family (Cooking and sewing) while men are preparing themselves for the next "big hunt". Thus men relax by sharpening their "skills" they believe they will need on the next "hunt". Most of what men do to relax are substitutes for these preparations (i.e. golf, Tennis, jogging, etc) all can be viewed as a substitute for the training needed to be in top shape for the Hunt.

Thus the sex roles people had in the days before Agriculture, survived Agriculture (Women took over the protecting and thus the gathering of the crop, while men did the heavy farm work generally as a member of a team of men). You basically can NOT undo at least a 100,000 years of evolution (100,000 years ago is abut when the modern Human appears in the fossil record) in a few short decades of modern Industrial Society.

As one old age told me years ago, men and women are NOT equal, their are complementary, what one sex does poorly, the other does quite well. How each sex does the same things can be completely different (Men tend to rely on their greater upper body strength, while women tend to rely on their lower center of gravity, and their smaller but nimble hands and feet).

Basically men relax by things that can be viewed as preparing them for the next "hunt" while women relax by gathering things for their family and preparing things for their family. Different but complementary.

[DELUSIONAL]

6. WRONG -- women work together and communicate

differently than males.

Girls work cooperatively in groups -- boys are competitive.

Deborah Tannen has done a lot of research in this area -- and has written several books -- one of which is listed below.

You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation (Paperback)
by Deborah Tannen

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060959622/qid=1146884975/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8096731-2003306?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

From Publishers Weekly
Georgetown University linguistics professor Tannen here ponders gender-based differences that, she claims, define and distinguish male and female communication. Opening with the rationale that ignoring such differences is more dangerous than blissful, she asserts that for most women conversation is a way of connecting and negotiating. Thus, their parleys tend to center on expressions of and responses to feelings, or what the author labels "rapport-talk" (private conversation). Men, on the other hand, use conversation to achieve or maintain social status; they set out to impart knowledge (termed "report-talk," or public speaking). Calling on her research into the workings of dialogue, Tannen examines the functioning of argument and interruption, and convincingly supports her case for the existence of "genderlect," contending that the better we understand it, the better our chances of bridging the communications gap integral to the battle of the sexes.
Copyright 1990 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

[Captain Hilts]

21. Yes. But not usually toward common goals as men experience in sports/military. nt

[Iris]

31. That's ridiculous. Ever heard of the Junior League, Girl Scouts, National Panhellenic, PTA?

Women don't work towards a common goal, my sweet ass. I guess if it's not maiming or killing it's not a worthwhile goal, right?

[Iris]

32. oh... and bridge club!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Hey Barb162, until the past 20 years, girls...

didn't have the chance to play team sports. Soccer came around while I was in high school. And why field hockey was forced on girls is beyond me. It has no social value beyond school at all.

But girls who play team sports still have to overcome the 'butch' label. As someone who follows a lot of sports, I still see trite player features on WNBA players that show "they like nice clothes just like regular girls."

Peggy Fleming said that being a figure skater was very isolating because you competed with your teamates. She said if ice hockey had been around when she was young, she would have much rather have done that.

Time will tell.

[mongo]

19. What a sexist and gender-centric post

Nothing like putting both men and women into their "proper" gender roles to continue a system of oppression.

[Scout]

22. :puke:

:puke:
women want to support their man in role as member of his "Team"

:puke:
while the women supported those activities AND supplemented it by "Gathering"
my anthropology class taught me that most calories were brought in by the gathering, which was a daily activity. Hunting supplemented the gathering, and was done on a less frequent basis... :eyes:

[Nobody]

23. I learned the same thing

Gathering brought in 80% of the food, hunting was 20%.

We haven't evolved past this in the astronomically short time we've been civilized. There's a reason why fruits, veggies, and grains can and should be consumed in larger amounts than meat if you want to eat a balanced diet.

[barb162]

4. "after two years , it won't get any dirtier"

what a great line.
I can't stand shopping with men. The men I have known try to hurry things along when I shop but when they are in a Best Buy or similar place I notice they screw around FOREVER.

[Kutjara]

5. I forgot to mention the flip side of my agreement with my wife.

I will not go clothes shopping with her and she will not set foot inside a Fry's/CompUSA/Best Buy/CircuitCity/Apple Store/etc etc etc with me.

Its a nice arrangement. So far.

[Nobody]

16. I hate shopping

I especially hate shopping in late November and all through December. I especially hate buying clothes. Not my idea of fun. I also hate dressing up, an when I get home from work, out come the T-shirts, sweats, and off come the shoes no matter what the season.

I once got a rather insulting email from a clueless individual who explained to me that because I was a professional with letters after my name, I needed to dress more professionally than the jeans, sweatshirts, and T-shirts he's seen me wear. In my industry isn't something you use to introduce yourself socially unless you're a total putz. I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, not a university professor with a PhD. I said he was clueless. He's also never seen me at work. Ever. My response was to delete and ignore and pretend it never happened, but then he brought it up next time I saw him a month or so later. He asked me that since we were near a clothing store, did I remember that email he sent me?

Aaaarrrggghhhh. Let's add stupid to clueless. I told him I remembered it, I deleted it instantly, I hate shopping, and I am not interested in clothes, and he's never seen what I wear at work. I'm not trying for a sales position at Harvey MacKay's envelope company* nor would I ever want to. He dropped the issue after I hit him with the Clue by Four.

Some women enjoy shopping. My mother did. I don't. Women are as individual as men.

*Harvey MacKay is CEO of MacKay's Envelopes and in his book "Swimming With Sharks Without Getting Eaten"** he describes the interview process for the sales team. He visits the applicant in the home and observes the family, judging the applicant on people who are not going to work for the company. The applicant will also be accidentally on purpose encountered while out and about on their own time and judged on professional appearance and other things that have nothing to do with how they will perform while on the job. He doesn't want any of his sales reps to have any free time at all where the boss isn't going to accidentally on purpose stumble upon them. I guess doing yardwork in a scruffy T-shirt and holey cutoffs is not going to get you or your spouse hired by him. Ick.

** In high school, I liked reading how to succeed in business manuals for their entertainment value. Most of them were truly hilarious and completely useless unless you were planning to go into sales. Even then I question the value other than as comedic pieces.

[Triana]

7. even grocery shopping...

...many men I know take EONS to get through the damn grocery store - the one they go to EVERY WEEK. It's not like they don't know where the usual items are. They just DAWDLE. It makes me CRAZY!

I can get in and out of the grocery in less than 30 minutes usually, where a couple men I know - it takes them at LEAST an HOUR. For WHAT?

Arrghhhhhhhhhh!

I hate shopping. Maybe that's it. I know what I want and where I want to get it. I go. I get it. I leave. If it's not there. I give up for the day and try someplace else later - in a week or a month or maybe even never. I just hate spending lots of time on it.

I don't think spending hours shopping - from what I've seen - is just a 'women's' thing. Men make me crazy with their ability to get distracted and dawdle all damn day in a grocery or a mall. Ugh.

[MountainLaurel]

8. That's a peeve of mine

Although it's less related to my husband's sex than the fact that he's a total foodie. Going to the store with him makes me want to grab a blunt object and strike him with it repeatedly. If he's buying olive oil, he has to look over every item there, twice. And then compare prices per liquid liter. And then think about the issue for another couple minutes. After which, he'll buy the same brand we always get.

[FloridaPat]

2. I seem to remember a lot of women like the soaps. Whole neighborhoods

would stop what they were doing to see them.

I have an aunt who does the following: quilting, bridge, crocheting, knitting, sewing. In her spare time she volunteers at charities. My friends and I like ceramics, jewelry creating, painting. Donna Dewberry and her One-Stroke is generally taught by women.

And since when is fishing or golf cheap?

[Katherine Brengle]

26. Um...

The article didn't say fishing and golf were cheap - it said WOMEN tend toward "cheap" leisure activities, not men. Although I would argue that old-school, sit on the bridge and drop your line in, fishing is relatively inexpensive.

I can honestly say I do not have time in my life for all of those activities you listed that your aunt does - I spend a few hours a week scrapbooking (that's my "me" time) and if I am sewing, it's on a deadline, not for fun... Even the scrapping is partly for me and partly for my family - I think there is still something to be said in our modern lives about the general selflessness required to be a wife and mother.

And I never got the concept of soap operas until I was with a whole group of women the other night and ALL of them knew everything about the last 10 years of every soap on tv... However, I wouldn't say everyone drops what they are doing to watch them - if you are at home all day, most likely caring for children, there is either inevitable down-time or you have the tv or radio on in the background while you entertain them/clean them/feed them/pick up after them/clean the house/do the laundry/cook breakfast lunch and dinner and make never ending snacks/etc...

Add to this things outside the house - grocery shopping, other errands, this time of year gift shopping and post office visits, playground, visiting friends and family, getting to the gym during daycare hours...

Who honestly has time to kick back? And this WITHOUT the extra "leisure" shopping trips...

[raccoon]

30. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

"I seem to remember a lot of women like the soaps. Whole neighborhoods
would stop what they were doing to see them. "

I seem to remember a lot of men (and women) like the Superbowl and other televised sports games.
Is that inherently any "better" than the soaps?

[lukasahero]

9. A) I relax B) I hate shopping and C)

when a "study" or "opinion" comes out that says "women are individual human beings with varied wants and needs", page me.

Oh and d) my husband, bless his dear feminist soul, hates sports.

[Odin2005]

11. Women are innately better at multi-tasking

I always give my mom a bad time because she cleans house when she is bored.

[Captain Hilts]

12. I know couples where the men are FAR better at multi-tasking.

One's a retired marine colonel. He thrives on chaos and can do a million things at once. He is more a 'gatherer' and his wife a 'hunter'.

In fact, he LOVEs grocery shopping. That spirit of the hunt thing, I guess. When he was not able to go to the store, he made her a marine-corps-style terrain map of the commissary and placed the coupons in order that she encounters the product.

See the detergeant, seize the detergeant!

[Nobody]

17. Hey! That sounds like making an onerous task fun

I'll try it next time I have to go grocery shopping.

[Captain Hilts]

24. Deleted.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I got this email today :THE NEXT SURVIVOR SERIES

THE NEXT SURVIVOR SERIES
>
> Six married men will be dropped on an island with one car and 3 kids
> each > for six weeks.
>
> Each kid will play two sports and either take music or dance classes.
>
> There is no fast food.
>
> Each man must take care of his 3 kids; keep his assigned house clean,
> correct all homework, complete science projects, cook, do
> laundry, and pay a list of "pretend" bills with not enough money.
>
> In addition, each man will have to budget in money for groceries each
> week.
>
> Each man must remember the birthdays of all their friends and relatives, and send cards out on time.
>
> Each man must also take each child to a doctor's appointment, a dentist
> appointment and a haircut appointment . He must make one unscheduled and inconvenient visit per child to the Urgent Care (weekend, evening, on a holiday or right when they're about to leave for vacation). He must also make cookies or cupcakes for a social function.
>
> Each man will be responsible for decorating his own assigned house,
> planting flowers outside and keeping it presentable at all times.
>
> The men will only have access to television when the kids are asleep and all chores are done.
>
> There is only one TV between them, and a remote with dead batteries.
>
> Each father will be required to know all of the words to every stupid
> song that comes on TV and the name of each and every character on cartoons.
>
> The men must shave their legs, wear makeup daily, which they will apply
> to themselve s either while driving or making three lunches.
>
> Each man will have to make an Indian hut model with six toothpicks, a
> tortilla and one marker; and get a 4 year old to eat a serving of peas.
>
> Each man must adorn himself with jewelry, wear uncomfortable yet stylish shoes, keep their nails polished and eyebrows groomed.
>
> The men must try to get through each day without snot, spit-up or barf
> on their clothing.
>
> During one of the six weeks, the men will have to endure severe
> abdominal cramps, back aches, and have extreme, unexplained mood
> swings but never once complain or slow down from other duties. They must try to explain what a tampon is for when the 6-yr old boy finds
> it in the purse.
>
> They must attend weekly school meetings, church, and find time at least
> once to spend the afternoon at the park or a similar setting.
>
> He will need to read a book and then pray with the children each night
> without falling asleep, and then feed them, dress them, brush
> their teeth and comb their hair each morning by 7:00. They must leave
the > home with no food on their face or clothes.
>
> A test will be given at the end of the six weeks, and each father will
> be > required to know all of the following information: each child's
> birthday, height, weight, shoe size, clothes size and doctor's name.
> Also > the child's weight at birth, length, time of birth, and length of labor, > each child's favorite color, middle name, favorite snack, favorite song, favorite drink, favorite toy, biggest fear and what they want to be when they grow up.
>
> They must clean up after their sick children at 2:00 a.m. and then spend the remainder of the day tending to that child and waiting on them
> hand and foot until they are better.
>
> They must have a loving, age appropriate rep ly to, "You're not the boss of me".
>
> The kids vote them off the island based on performance. The last man
> wins only if...he still has enough energy to be intimate with his spouse at a moment's notice.
>
> If the last man does win, he can play the game over and over and over
> again for the next 18-25 years...eventually earning the right
> to be called Mother!
>
> After you get done laughing, send this to as many females as you think
> will get a kick out of it and as many men as you think can handle it.

[MountainLaurel]

15. That. Rocks.

:applause:

[Stargazer09]

20. I love it!

In a few months, I am going to subject my husband to something very similar to this.

Four young children. One SUV. Seven weeks alone with the kids while Mommy goes away on military duty. Wish him luck, because he is going to need it.

I'll be nice and not make him shave his legs or put on makeup. :D

[knitter4democracy]

28. Even Hubby laughed at this, knowing he couldn't do it.

:)

[TellTheTruth82]

33. He must also make cookies or cupcakes for a social function.

He should probably be told about it at 8 or 9 o'clock at night and they are for a function in the morning. I guess any minimal notice should suffice.

Actually, as a man, I do most of these things (I share them with my wife). However, she is the sole owner of the leg-shaving and putting on makeup tasks (as well as a few others).
I do clean the house quite regularly (my wife tells me she is allergic to dust), and take care of the yard tasks as well, as she is also allergic to scores of trees, flowers, and grass. "House work" is something that can be equitably divided; playing to each partner's strengths will speed the accomplishment.

[gaspee]

18. Great article

I'm passing it around to my friends. Getting all the good articles pointed out is one of the best things about DU

[KitSileya]

25. I am sooo glad I hate shopping.

I stand outside with my stepdad when my mom drags us out shopping on the rare occasions we see each other. I don't understand why women want to hurt themselves like that - looking at clothes mostly produced for boys with girl faces (at least that's what one could think those models are, no hips, no breasts, concave belly.) For me, there's absolutely no satisfaction about it - give me some crafts instead, or a book.

As for housework, I joke that I've been spoiled by my stepdad who actually does things without being prompted (read nagged.) When he wakes up early in the morning on the weekends, he puts things in the dishwasher, takes out the trash, does home improvements projects (he's a (wall/house) painter by trade, currently working as a full-time union rep.) Sure, my mom has to mention when it's time for a full house cleaning, but at least he participates and is fair about it. I want to find a partner like that myself, but they are certainly thin on the ground.

[Boojatta]

27. I'm just wondering: is the excerpt below about women's rights?

If it isn't about women's rights (and please note that I am not claiming that it isn't about women's rights) then what parts of the Original Post are about women's rights?

Most women would say that they have very little time to themselves. The time they don't spend working for the employer and the taxman they spend doing something called "housework" (...)

[knitter4democracy]

29. I knit and spin. They're relaxing.

Still, it's not like I'm being unproductive with my leisure time. I guess you could call reading unproductive, since I do that for leisure, too, but more and more of it is for my teaching or the classes I'm taking.

Also, it's not like my family depends on me getting all the socks done before the old ones wear out, thankfully. I can buy hats, mittens, socks, and such for cheaper than what I can knit them for, so it's not like my family needs me to knit. That makes it more relaxing than it would be otherwise.