What happened?

[Control-Z]

My daughter is 12, in 7th grade and a real sweetie but has had a few problems this school year with talking too much, running late and just once being disrespectful to a teacher (she was standing up for herself). This may not be the right forum but I trust the women (and men) at DU and would really like your opinion.

Long story short: Today at school, after returning to her class from the ladies room, my daughter was putting her make-up compact back into her backpack when her teacher thought she was hiding a 7-up and made her bring her pack up to her to be searched. She then told my daughter she would have to go to the office to have it (the backpack) returned to her.

My daughter went to the Vice Principal's office where she heard them talking about calling the police to view the video that was on the camera she had in her backpack. The teacher thought she'd been video-taping her classroom.

My daughter actually laughed and explained that it wasn't even a video camera, the battery had been in another pocket and that she hadn’t taken it out of her backpack. The VP questioned her about why she had it in her backpack and started looking through the pictures on it. There were only three shots on the camera - one of which was of my daughter in her new polka dot bra that she had taken of herself. NOT a kiddie porn posed picture like you see on myspace. It was a little girl can't-wait-to-show-my-best-friend picture. No make-up. No pose. (Truth be told she gets teased about being small and was excited that the bra maybe made her look older than 10.)

She was completely embarrassed and asked him not to look at that one but he did anyway and asked her (in an accusatory way) if I knew about it. He then went through the three photographs again stopping at the bra shot and then again and then again. She tried to get him to stop and finally reached over and pushed the off button while he was still looking. He turned it back on. She turned it off again and asked if she could have her things back. He had taken her cell phone, her i-pod and the camera. He told her he wouldn't return them to her until the end of the school year and then he assigned her a Saturday School Detention.

She left crying. A group of students became angry and vocal over the incident. Later, when her father came to pick her up, everything was returned to him without a word.

Any thoughts?

[lvx35]

1. Find out who oversees the administrators and tell them the same story.

This story really speaks for itself. Don't tolerate this.

[Poppyseedman]

8. I would tell you to

home school her but that would be against the unspoken rules here about speaking the truth about our public education system and how beyond repair it really is.

I might be accused of all sorts of nasty things.

[lvx35]

20. I have a homeschooled friend who got it really bad.

She's smart, but 25 and can't do multiplication. She had an overworked mom and no dad. Homeschooling takes mad resources. But I've also worked in the districts, and if you want to talk about reform, please do! Some reform is clearly needed!!!

[xchrom]

2. if i were a parent i'd be upset that somebody

went through my kids backpack without my being there.

there's something very wrong with this scenario.

and i'm not at all sure that ANYTHING on that camra was his business.

this set up just seems very wrong to me.

whoever is his superior is who i'd go to -- while making it clear to him that he's never to go through your daughter's stuff without you present.

[Control-Z]

22. Actually, there wasn't anything

about the scenario that felt right to me.

The teach thought her rectangular, plastic compact was a soda can or bottle? Seriously?

Okay..??? Fine. Check it out even.

But anything after that is just more than I can accept as normal or right.

Problem is this VP is a real problem and now I'm beginning to think the teacher is a complete nut thinking she's being secretly video taped. It's almost laughable. My daughter didn't understand her paranoia and then finally came to the conclusion that she must have been worried about her hair and make up.

[sojourner]

3. yep...go higher up, and keep going until they listen to what you're saying

[CGrantt57]

4. Any thoughts?

Yeah, this guy's a jerk.

But, that doesn't help.

As an administrator, he overstepped his bounds severely. He has the right to check if a student has contraband, and confiscate such, but, unless digital cameras are specifically considered such, he's out of line.

Go directly to the Principal of the school and state the facts. Tell him (or her) of the emotional effects this incident wrought on your daughter.

Demand, politely, that the camera and any other articles you paid for, be returned, with the understanding that they won't be brought back into the school.

If that doesn't work, or if the principal balks, pull out your cell phone and call the Superintendent. While in the office, set up an appointment to discuss the incident AND the principal.

If you get no relief from the Superintendent, call school board members. Make a stink with them.

Most of them cave easily to pissed off parents.

Trust me, I've been teaching for 25 years.

Don't talk to guy who did it, go right over his head to his supervisor and keep going until someone agrees with you.

Good luck!

:thumbsup:

[Control-Z]

23. Oh, yeah.

The guy's a complete jerk. More than you know. But I'm a little hesitant to bring up the emotional effects he's had on my daughter.

I'm still not sure if he had a right to look into her bag in the first place. All the internet links for that information happen to be broken right now but, if it was illegal as I am hearing from the kids, that would be the best way to go after him, I think. I'm not going to get any support at the school on this.

There was another incident with him when my daughter had been disrespectful to a teacher (as I mentioned in my original post). He treated her unreasonably and was wholly supported by the principal. I got nowhere with them on that incident so I think it might be better to approach this one differently. And it would be a lot less stressful for my daughter.

[napi21]

5. I sugest that you speak to the teacher and the VP at the school.

I obviously don't know anything about you daughter's school...how big it is, how many students they have, and what other things they've had to deal with. I know your daughter shouldn't have to suffer from anything someone else did in the past, but that's the way the school authorities have to deal with things. (On a what if it's like...basis)

On it's face, your daughter didn't do anything wrong, but having a camera in her back pack at school is asking for trouble. Taking a ic of herself in her new bra is certainly understandable, but can be misinterpreted. I realize she thought there was no problem with that pic, and believe it or not, almost 50 years ago, I took a similar pic...although it was on a camera that had film to be developed at the local drug store.I didn't think there was any problem either and still don't. Today, wether it's because it's more publicized or because it's more prevelant, many get into trouble for even innocent pics.

I sounds like your daughter didn't receive any punishment or mistreatment, and maybe learned a bit of a lesson. Sometimes it isn't what you do, but what it might look like.

I would speak to the teacher and the VP and explaine that you're unhappy that your daughter was humiliated, but you also need to view this from their side. If you were responsible for hundreds or thousands of kids, what happens if you suspect something...even if you're wrong...and do nothing?

[izzie]

12. I can not see what she did wrong but for this

She stood up for what she thought and the school acted very childish but and it is a big but as I was always in trouble in school for doing such things. One has to learn that things do not always work out in the best or right way and in life it is one of the things we do have to learn. How to get along. I hope she fights it up the line a little any how just so she knows to stick to your gun makes one feel better about one self.

[Greyhound]

27. WTF? This is really scary...

"...having a camera in her back pack at school is asking for trouble", are you kidding? What country do you think this is?

Am I misreading what you wrote? We are all supposed to anticipate, and therefore, modify our actions, speech, and what personal possessions we carry on the chance that some anal retentive pissant might "misinterpret" them? She did nothing wrong.

"...your daughter was humiliated", but she "...didn't receive any punishment or mistreatment"? I suppose you're OK with warrantless searches and probable cause is just a "technicality" used by those dirty crooks to "get off".

Have we fallen so far away from the founding principle of liberty? Unfucking believable. :wow: :scared:

[Control-Z]

28. I have not stopped thinking

about this since it happened and I am not okay with any of it. My daughter, however, has made it clear to me that she does not want it brought up again. I wasn't aware at the time just how embarrassed she was over the incident.

The situation is complicated. Add to it that I teach for the same school district. I am going to try to transfer her to another school this fall. Once school starts I hope to speak to my boss about this guy. She may know him or know of him. We've all been off for summer break. I'm just waiting at this point - but I haven't forgotten.

[Greyhound]

29. Wow, that must be a pretty uncomfortable position to find yourself in.

Working for the district that has allowed this BS to happen, especially in such a backward State/Fiefdom.

I noticed the person I replied to hasn't bothered to answer any of the questions. Typical. :eyes:

I am constantly amazed at how willing the sheep are to parrot the lies of their keepers.

[dipsydoodle]

6. So sorry to hear what happened.

You said your daughter left in tears. On a technicality isn't that assault ? Even shouting loudly at someone in close poximity to them can be proven to be assault.

[liberal N proud]

7. If she felt threatened or harassed by his continued looking at that

picture then she was harassed.
I tell the people that work for me that harassment is in the eye of the one feeling harassed and therefore could be very real.
You need to take this to the School Admin. Check with the ACLU, they have a site just for students rights.
At the very least that school official should have had a female in the office while he went through her bag and looked at pictures.

[mcscajun]

9. Talk to a lawyer. Talk to the ACLU.

Talk to a local reporter.

Make this as public as possible. No child should be put through this, and just what possible disciplinary outcome could be explained by this apparent need of the Vice Principal's to look at a photo of your daughter in her bra over and over? None. This guy gives me the creeps...and he IS one. He's got no business doing what he did, and probably should be removed from any position of authority.

[rock]

10. That sounds like good advice

[Control-Z]

24. This guy is such a creep.

I told my daughter, after disrespecting her teacher (a prior incident), to stay away from him and to only speak to him if he spoke to her first. He had blown that situation way out of proportion, possibly worse than this one, and had reduced my daughter to a state I had never seen her in. She was in such bad shape that I cried when I saw her. When she told me how he had treated her I was shocked .

I don't know that I can really relate to you how he humiliated her, broke her down, made her cry, and put her through this big ordeal. (This was over rolling her eyes and muttering under her breath.) Then wouldn't let her go to lunch. Instead, he made her stay in with him and he took her out "special" to a vending machine and made her change with his own money. She had to walk through the school yard with him, past her friends, still crying. He made her thank him over again several times after she already had on her own and he scolded her for being rude and lectured her about learning to be polite. He made her go back and stay with him in his office. She begged him to let her go to her other classes but he wouldn't let her leave. She was hysterical, couldn't take it anymore and finally ran from his office and hid from him in her classes.

I can't really explain but it was all just wrong. Wrong enough for me to warn her about him. I shudder just thinking about him. Now the photograph. But, he's got the school behind him so any fight would be very hard on my daughter - something I'm sure he depends on. It's a tough call and I'm more than frustrated.

[mcscajun]

25. This guy is More than a creep; he's truly, truly Scary.

After reading the additional details of the incident and its aftermath, he sounds like more than just your ordinary creep, he sounds like a D&S creep; but at the very least, he's got some control/authoritarian issues.

I'm not a parent, so I'm not the best person to give advice here. You'll do what's best for your daughter, I know. Please do consider how much longer she has to be in school with this threat, and act accordingly. Don't let him win and continue to have any influence or control over this fine young woman.

[fasttense]

11. Ok, what your daughter went through was

difficult. I would talk to people up the chain of authority just to let them know I stood behind my daughter, but I doubt I would take it further. I certainly wouldn't allow my ten year old daughter to take so much expensive electronic equipment to school anymore. I would be afraid she would become the target of envious schoolmates. Many years ago when I was in Baltimore, a teenage boy was killed for his designer sneakers.

That Vice Principal looking at that picture over and over again gives me the creeps. I would definitely go over his head and complain about it. I would also oppose the Saturday School Detention. What exactly did the child do wrong? Was she not suppose to go through her backpack during school? Is that a policy or just an overly concerned teacher's reaction?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Children treated as criminals

teachers and principals abusing their power. Glad I quit teaching back in the '90s. This was awful and VERY disrespectful of your child. Have you thought of home schooling? My sister did it with each of her kids for one year-helped them get through rough patches socially and the both graduated at the head of their classes.

[Warpy]

14. Start writing letters

That VP is a perv and a voyeur. There was no reason on earth for him to torture your daughter that way. If he felt there was a pressing need to know what was on that camera, he could have asked YOU to look at it.

I don't know where they find these assholes to be administrators, but they have no place around children.

Letters of complaint are the first step. Then you might want to contact the ACLU and even retain your own lawyer. Lawyers write great threatening letters, especially when a guy has been so vitally interested in a picture of a girl child in a bra.

[Kailassa]

15. That's sexual harrassment.

Your daughter must have felt absolutely awful after having to endure that and the pervert's bullying.

I don't know what you can do about the school, but I wish you luck there.

Use this incident to teach your daughter that, although the world is not fair and a certain percentage of people are evil bastards, she can be strong and cope and keep her dignity. Show her you understand how she feels, and reassure her that nobody ever has a right to treat her in that way.

You can't raise your children to be strong and good unless they have a chance to learn how shitty life can be while you are there to support them and help them cope. She will grow up knowing not to respect all authority, to think for herself, and to support other people who are treated unfairly.

[Orrex]

16. What's the school's formal policy on searches?

Some districts have draconian search-at-will policies by which they claim authority to search anything and everything on school property, nominally to protect the children. If your daughter's school has such a policy, thereby allowing an at-will search of her backpack, then you'd need to address the policy itself, and that may be a difficult road.

But if the school does not have a policy explicitly allowing a search of this kind, then your next move might be to report the VP's actions on those grounds; that is, it would seem clear that he overstepped his authority to search the bag.

It also appears, from the way you've spelled it out, that the teacher and the VP both searched the bag. Is this consistent with policy?

Does the school have an explicit policy against filming in the classroom? If so, what does the policy advise in cases where filming is suspected?

The thought of the VP lingering over that picture of your daugher is nauseating. Please forgive me the question that follows:
How do you know that he returned repeatedly to that particular picture? I ask this because you'll be asked the same thing later if/when you pursue disciplinary action against him. Here's how the district will likely frame it: it's hard to view a camera's LCD screen from an oblique angle; if the VP were sitting behind his desk OR STANDING, how could your daughter know which picture he was viewing, unless he made a point of showing her which one it was?

And why the hell was she given any punishment at all, much less Saturday detention? Unless there's a strict prohibition against cellphones, iPods, or cameras, then it doesn't sound like she's in violation of anything!

In any case, make sure that your daughter knows that you don't think that she did anything wrong. From the way you've described it, the teacher may have had a legitimate concern, but the VP was entirely out of line.

[Orrex]

17. Whoops--not sure why I capitalized OR STANDING

Call it a typo--no undue emphasis intended.

[Triana]

18. My GOD what is wrong with these people?

PLEASE call the ACLU or get a lawyer. Those people are HARASSING your daughter. This an age where a girl's self-esteem can be destroyed causing problems later in life as a woman.

[Control-Z]

19. Thanks to all of you

for your responses. There is more I'd like to add, and some questions and responses I'd like to make but first I want to finish checking into the school and district policies and get a clearer picture of what we're dealing with. My daughter and I are searching the internet right now. I'll check back in as soon as I get the information. Thanks so much for your input.

[femrap]

26. I haven't read the Feminist's Board for awhile...

but I want you to know that I very much agree w/ Triana....this perv is picking on your daughter because he KNOWS this is the age that young woman are 'broken.' This is when young women learn to be put in their 'place.' Don't let him get away with this.

If he gets nasty, I'd bring out the big guns and ask him how many other of the female students he is viewing dressed in a bra. I would think that would scare him into behaving like a professional administrator. Any hint of pedophile could ruin his career...he needs to be put in his 'place.'

Your daughter picked up on his weird vibe and so did you....listen to yourself. He's a perv.

[omega minimo]

21. bullshit

:evilfrown: