What do you think of Reid putting his arm around Pelosi's

[question everything]

shoulder in what clearly is a patronizing gesture?

Watch this on Jon Stewart

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/player.jhtml?ml_video=85760&ml_collection=&ml_gateway=&ml_gateway_id=&ml_comedian=&ml_runtime=&ml_context=show&ml_origin_url=%2Fshows%2Fthe_daily_show%2Findex.jhtml&ml_playlist=&lnk=&is_large=true

Apparently, many DUers don't have any problem with this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x749273

[Uben]

1. I don't have a problem with it

If she doesn't, I sure don't! It's a friendly gesture, and I greet a lot of female friends the same way.

[pinkpops]

2. If she doesn't mind I don't mind

[jumpoffdaplanet]

3. I thought it was creepy

Reid shouldn't have done that.

[Suich]

5. I'm with you...

ick.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[bluerum]

4. I think we should let it drop. eom

[spartan61]

6. I Agree!!

[question everything]

18. Don't bother your pretty little head, right?

and on this forum, of all places. And when the increasing pay gap has just been published.

sigh..

[bluerum]

20. Sorry. You asked. eom

[TomInTib]

7. Did you ever win a really big game?

Methinks some are reading waaaay too much in the actions of the principals in a victorious moment.

[TexasProgresive]

8. If they were both the same gender you would think nothing of it. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

9. It's patronizing, but

I think somebody from their generation (Reid & Pelosi) might not think of it that way. Both are in their mid to late 60s, right?

[question everything]

19. The expression on her face suggested otherwise

she would not have reached that position if she were playing the good little girl.

[Mad_Dem_X]

30. Exactly - her expression clearly showed

she was not pleased with him doing that.

[iverglas]

32. I thought so too

But I thought it might not be sex-related. It was the kind of shoulder-grabbing and hanging-on-to that an older man might well use on a younger man. He was controlling the situation, he took the mike away from her, she had to shut up ... but it just looked kinda sex-neutral. Except, of course, that it was a real older-man thing to do.

She was really obviously pissed and uncomfortable, as a result of being shoved aside. Maybe he wouldn't have done that to an equivalent man. Dunno.

So, what I really hate is the overt sexualization of formal situations, for women. The kissing. Cheek, I don't care. Men really don't kiss each other. Women get kissed. Me, I shake hands. It took considerable effort to learn how to do it and get good at it, having been raised a girl, and I'm not gonna get kissed out of it. Anybody tries to kiss me on meeting or greeting finds a pointy set of fingers in his/her ribs.

At least he put his hand on her shoulder, as an alpha male would do to another man, and not on her back (gawd I hate being steered that way) or around her.

[Bjornsdotter]

10. I thought

...Pelosi looked uncomfortable with it.

Just my opinion....Cheers

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. This is your second go on this isn't it?

Who cares?

[Jim Sagle]

12. He's just very CONCERNED.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Concerned or OBSESSED

[melody]

14. Oh, good lord ... who cares? People only bring this up because of the Bush/Merkel incident

If Nancy didn't mind, why should we?

Bush didn't even know the woman, wasn't from the same culture, and made a rude, unwanted gesture (just as he has so often).

That is the difference and it's, as the trolls like to say, HUGH! :)

[OHdem10]

15. How absolutely picky!!!

Mamcu can take care of herself.

[EST]

16. Perhaps I shouldn't and, normally, I wouldn't, but...

Nancy and Harry have been through it all. Perhaps no actual blood, but these two have been through the very depths of the horror of an all publicker torture fest, each day worse than the last.
Daily, they have been shit on, treated poorly, given the back of the hand and yet never has either decked anyone. Had they done so, I would have seen nothing amiss.

They have been held up to public ridicule, especially from the wingers, but from many on the progressive side as well, going on t v and having to calmly allow some wormy brained, self important commentator pillory them before the entire nation--yet they persevered without whining or bemoaning their fate. Their graciousness was unflagging and their quiet dignity, in retrospect, was awesome to behold.

They have both received an unknown, but enormous, I'm sure, number of death threats, anger missives, lies, all the sorts or horror that would drive any normal human up the wall and running from the responsibility that they each have taken upon themselves. Yet they stayed.

Now, amazingly, they have won through, both these captains of policy and restraint, and there they stand--having managed to accomplish something that I will wager not a single person who has ever criticized them could pull off.
They know each other's insides intimately and would have even if they'd never met.

I noticed that, when Nancy took the gavel on that sparkling day that anointed her first female speaker of the house--ever, her stutter and verbal false starts were not nearly so much in evidence. Today, she took the floor and made a speech that was smooth as silk.

I can't help but think the pressure on her had pressed even this marvelous creature to very near the edge.

No matter what we think she was thinking or how we might have handled their familiarity, we have no right to make any assumptions nor pass any judgments on their demonstration of their respect for or closeness to each other. If we haven't walked the glory road with them, we have no right!

[saracat]

17. It bothered me that he appeared to cut her off while doing this. Like he would

speak for her. And she did look uncomfortable, but this isn't a really big deal.Democrats should be more concious though.

[noamnety]

29. That's what bothered me as well.

I could have read it as a gesture of support if he'd allowed her to keep talking.

But combined with interrupting her - as if HE knew better than her what ought to be said in that moment - it came off more as "Alright dear, I think I'd better handle this one." Ick.

I sat through a meeting recently where I couldn't get a full sentence out without the men cutting me off every damned time, it seemed - even though we were going around the room deliberately taking turns so everyone would have a chance to voice their opinion. :(

I wish the men lurking here would take that under advisement and take some time to watch the dynamics in the next mixed-gender meeting they are in.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. I think no-one who wasn't actively looking for an excuse to take offence would do so at it.

NT

[supernova]

22. I thought it was creepy and condescending

He interrupted her too, IIRC. Another HUGE no-no in my book.

However, since it didn't happen to me personally, I have to take how Speaker Pelosi feels about it. And she hasn't said anything about it (publicly).

[lukasahero]

23. What kind of reaction do you think she'd get if she did say something?

This is part of the problem women face:

If a man does something that we find condescending (and social studies document that men speak over women with fair frequency in business settings), we first have to fight our own upbringing that teaches us that it's impolite to voice our distaste in public, we should never do anything to humiliate a man (especially in public).

If we do manage to get past that insidious kind of teaching and actually speak up, what reaction are our concerns met with? I think we can look around in these threads for the answer to that: lighten up, it's no big deal, some people find offense in everything, and the ubiquitous - what a bitch. Teaching us yet again that we should always be polite and keep our mouths shut.

[supernova]

24. Well, she was in a bit of a bind

but maybe not for the reasons we think.

There are gender differences in the ways men and women communicate. We all know that. And one of those is the interrupting thing. Men do interrupt each other and don't think a thing about it. So, they interrupt women too. (Still doltish, but we are where we are right now.)

Normally, if this would have been a meeting, she would have been justified in simply talking over him... reinterrupting him, IOW. (And, odds are, Reid would not have thought about it.)

However, because they were both standing in front of the press, she may have decided that the sight of she and Reid playing the interrupting game might have taken away from the point they were making collectively.

I don't know, sheer speculation on my part. But I'm trying not to assign purposefully bad intentions to Reid.

[lukasahero]

25. Exactly my point: she thought about it, why didn't he? eom

[supernova]

26. Because we're the ones

who are troubled by it, not men.

[gaspee]

27. Someone

either upthread or in another thread said that we wouldn't be even asking this if Reid did it to a man.

The entire point is that he *wouldn't* do it a man. Can you imagine him pulling that on Murtha?

[supernova]

28. Can I imagine him pulling that on Murtha?

I honestly don't know. It's within the realm of possiblity that he would. And, because of what I said earlier, that they would get into the predictable alpha-dog squabble.

I am not defending the guy. I've already said it made me uneasy. If Speaker Pelosi had a problem with it, I'm fairly certain she called him on it later.

[Scout]

31. I think if Madam Speaker has a problem with it, she will let him know...

I don't think she needs my/our help.

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

33. No problem. Now, if he'd done the male hand to the back to steer her I'd be upset. nt

[iverglas]

35. zactly what I said ;)

Verbatim, almost. That was what I was expecting to see when I watched the video, so maybe I was just so relieved I didn't see it ...

Hand on shoulder does strike me as more generically dominant (when used for the purpose he was using it -- to push aside without looking like he was pushing aside).

[Captain Hilts]

36. I'm short and tall people do it to short people of both sexes all the time...

yes, it is generic dominance, I guess that's why it doesn't bug me as much as the hand to the back male to female gesture...

[DuaneBidoux]

34. I think he made an ass of himself. I was embarrassed for him (and Dems).