Workplace anger -- who wins? Study: Angry men rewarded, angry women penalized

[Triana]

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A man who gets angry at work may well be admired for it but a woman who shows anger in the workplace is liable to be seen as "out of control" and incompetent, according to a new study presented Friday.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/02/angry.men.women.reut/index.html

[Joanie Baloney]

1. Someone has to say it...

This study makes me angry!!

:sarcasm:


:)

JB

[Triana]

2. LOL! Yep ME too! (n/t)

[Mist]

3. As a frequently "ill-tempered" woman, I know all about the double standard for anger. nt

[Triana]

9. Yep. Same here. Personally and professionally - it's been my experience (n/t)

[jgraz]

4. My opinion: The problem is deeper than just a dislike for angry women

Anger is only effective if you do it right. Boys are allowed to be angry a lot more often than girls, who are expected to be proper little ladies. People who aren't allowed to "practice" at getting angry as children are more likely to be nasty or passive aggressive, rather than passionate or forceful.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on personal experience. I'd definitely be interested to hear if anyone has corroborating or contradictory evidence.

[Triana]

5. "Boys are allowed to be angry a lot more often than girls"

That's the crux of the problem...dislike and disapproval of angry women and girls - starts at a young age. I agree w/ you that girls therefore never learn to more appropriately express their anger. They're just told NOT to - ever. No matter what. Problem is - girls/women are HUMAN and for HUMANS - anger is a normal emotion that needs to be expressed.

"feminism is the radical notion that women are human"

[jgraz]

6. "feminism is the radical notion that women are human"

Who's quote is that? I want a bumper sticker with that on it.

[Scout]

7. try Northern Sun or Ms or Now

i've got one that says "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

[jgraz]

8. Whoa -- aren't they some of those "angry women" magazines?

:hide:

[Triana]

12. http: // www.heartless-bitches.com

Youbetcha! ;) That's us. Mean Ol man-hating femininazis :sarcasm: (which in mysogenist terms is any woman who refuses to be a doormat).


Clickable: http://www.heartless-bitches.com

Oh. And....

http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/

If you can get around the language (some of which I don't care for being the prude I am) these sites do have some good info and well-written (assertive, even!) stuff written there.

EDIT: Oh. Ohh! And TONS more links here: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/links/links.shtml


OKAY. Chest-beating, knuckle-dragging, alpha-male internet bully-abusers trolling this forum for victims arrive in this thread in 5...4...3...2...1

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. I think you've got it backward.

I see nothing wrong with disapproving of anger in women (although I think children of either gender getting angry is fine); the problem is that it's not sufficiently disapprobated in men.

Anger may be a normal emotion, but it's an extremely unproductive one; I would always prefer to work with someone able to refrain from getting angry, irrespective of their gender.

[Katherine Brengle]

16. Anger is not unproductive.

Holding it in hampers performance. Being mocked for it hampers performance. Being dismissed when it is righteous hampers performance.

Anger is a normal healthy reaction to injustice or ill-treatment.

And it is seen as such in men.

In women, it is seen as a threat and must be belittled and destroyed so those women can shuffle back to their proper places, where they belong, nice and quiet and never disruptive.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. I don't think that's the case.

In any kind of situation where people have to come to an agreement over something by means of discussing it, one of them getting angry almost always makes the process slower, more onerous and less likely to get to a good result.

In virtually all clashes in the workplace, there's something to be said on both sides, so the concept of "righteous" anger is a very bad one - in general, both people in an argument feel "righteous"; if they regard being "righteous" as an excuse for expressing rather than supressing anger then an awful lot of clashes will become an awful lot worse than they need to be.

The ability not to become angry, or to avoid letting it show if one does, is a very valuable one indeed, and one I wish I was better at.

Holding in anger doesn't hamper performance, it enhances it.

Anger *is* threatening, and *should* be belittled and destroyed (in some sense of the words), in either gender. Remaining civil, friendly, constructive and unthreatening should be rewarded and encouraged.

You talk about being "nice and quiet and never disruptive" as though you think it's an undesirable attribute in an employee! I would say that in either sex those are qualities that *should* be rewarded with higher pay.

[Triana]

27. holding in and being belittled for anger causes health issues too...

...physical and emotional. Holding it in and being belittled for it causes stress and depression - not to mention when women are DEFINED by it in deragatory ways and PUNISHED for it via lower salaries and fewer/no promotions - THAT causes them other issues as well - financial - which adds to stress and depression. It's a nasty cycle.

YES! Anger is a normal human emotion! Women are human and I think part of the problem is that they are expected NOT to be. They're expected NOT to exhibit the power to stick up and stand up for themselves when they're abused or done injustice to - and that's what it boils down to - power. Women aren't supposed to HAVE any - in some people's opinions - some think women ought to just be doormats. Anger is therefore a threat to those IN power.

[raccoon]

15. Because a lot of the time anger gives you power, and of course it's far more acceptable

for males than females.

Lots of women cry when they're angry. I used to before therapy. Why? Because it's far more acceptable in our culture for women to cry than it is for women to get angry.

[Triana]

19. Uh-huh...good observation re: anger = power and women aren't allowed...

...to have that (power) and therefore anger - not without being DEFINED in a derogatory manner for it then "punished" for expressing it via lower salaries, denied promotions, and in their personal relationships, called "crazy" and "hysterical" or otherwise abused for being angry (no matter WHAT is done or said to them to cause it).

[Darth_Kitten]

29. Women's anger is generally directed within.........

Men's anger seems to be directed outwards more often.....look at all the crime going on in the world. It's not sexist to mention that most often it's caused by men.

I'm tired of "boys will be boys". I'm tired of paying for the effects of "angry" young men, etc, taking out their anger on their communities and neighbourhoods.
I think with all the crap going on in this world, why are women's normal responses to the world around them seen as a bad thing?

I find as I'm getting older I'm getting less "tolerant" in a lot of ways.

[musette_sf]

30. i'm with you

i am getting less tolerant too. at this point I Blame The Patriarchy, and i am defining my own world by woman-based standards. anyone who doesn't like it can naff off, i no longer have the time or bandwidth for this sh!t.

[Triana]

31. Here Here...

...same w/ me. I'm finding that my tolerance for patriarchal, mysogenist boy-sh*t is getting lower and I'm caring less and less who doesn't like it, as I've gotten older.

[Triana]

11. Speaking of Which, it's Time to Post This Again...

Too Angry for What?

By Kirsten Anderberg (www.kirstenanderberg.com/Dec 2004)

I am often told I am "too angry." I have never totally understood what that means, honestly. "Too angry for what?" is what I always think. Too angry to be a submissive housewife? Okay, I agree with that. Too angry to be a complacent wage slave? Okay, that is true too. Too angry to sit silently by while my government commits what constructively amounts to international war crimes? Okay. Too angry to allow sexism without a counterargument of intellectual feminism? Guilty as charged. I guess maybe what I wonder about is not the "angry" part, but the "too" part. "Too angry" implies my anger exceeds what the situation warrants. "Too angry" implies irrationality, a loss of perspective, an emotional irresponsibility. I agree that I am angry. Even angry as hell. But I am not convinced that I am "too angry."

MUCH MORE...


http://users.resist.ca/~kirstena/pagetooangryforwhat.html

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. There's a much lower bar for us as well

The slightest whiff of irritation from a woman is considered scary, explosive rage. Whereas a man has to be pretty much bellowing that he wants to kill people before it's considered problematic.

We are supposed to walk around with big smiles plastered on our faces and demostrate the utmost sweetness and patience no matter what gets thrown at us.

[Triana]

14. Exactly...

...there have been times that if I sounded the least bit irritated (no matter WHAT was going on or what someone did or said to me), I got BLASTED for it (accused of being "snappy", "bitchy" or "over sensitive").

But a guy? Well, he could stand up on the conference room or living room table with a megaphone foaming at the mouth and threatening to hang everyone and be at admired at best, or considered amusing at worst. Or someone would make an excuse like "oh he's just had a rough day..." - or worse - "well, what did YOU do to make him angry like that? YOU must have done something..."

Puh. Gawd. The free passes men get on anger - in both professional and personal relationships. The double-standard is astounding.

[femrap]

17. Our culture won't stand for an angry woman....

she is ridiculed or patronized. This anger is then directed inward and guess what we get...DEPRESSION!

It's my theory that this is why so many women suffer from Depression.

[Triana]

20. certainly makes sense...

..one thing an ex of mine did just before I dumped his sorry ass ( he was an abuser ) was that he ridiculed me for being "angry and depressed"..

Well. DUH. GUESS WHY? First he abused the shit out of me (verbal, emotional...) that made me angry and when I told him that and told him why, then he ridiculed me for being angry and after a while, I became depressed and finally dumped him.

I'm not angry and depressed anymore. Imagine that...HA!

It happens in personal and professional relationships. NO MATTER WHAT is done or said to a woman she is NOT to ever get angry - not allowed. THAT is a privilege only afforded to men. And they are not required to have any reason, good or otherwise.

[femrap]

21. I'm glad you're rid of

his sorry ass. Now you can be happy!

I have noticed that when a woman does get really angry and let's the guys have it, they really look scared...usually because the woman is speaking the Truth.

[Triana]

22. well this guy just got all juvenile and defensive...

...and started blaming ME for his abuse. Well YOU this and YOU that...he sounded like a 6-year-old. It was really pathetic. He couldn't manage to have an adult discussion when there was an issue. He'd blame, insult, project, name-call - just like a schoolyard bully - and of course it was OK for HIM to fly off the handle and it didn't take much at all (sometimes nothing that I could even determine) to set him off. No surprise that relationship didn't get anywhere. Let the next victim deal with his abusive, angry arse now! HA!

[raccoon]

25. Gosh, I've known lots of men like that! nt

[Captain Hilts]

23. Women are never allowed a reason to be angry. It's just hormones! nt

[Triana]

24. I wonder then....

...what's mens' excuse? ;)

On a serious and more realistic note, anger is a normal human emotion. Men AND women ought to be able to express it without being DEFINED by it. Men are able to do that. But women are not due to these double-standards.

[raccoon]

26. Another thing, it's possible to show anger without being abusive, even verbally.

Lots of people, male and female, apparently don't know that, so when they get angry, they get abusive.

[Triana]

28. true that...

...I'd like to see women and men educated as to how to better express their anger. NOT expressing it is not an option. It should be accepted as part of normal human emotions - from and by BOTH sexes in both personal and professional realms.

Women are taught to NEVER, EVER express it. Period. They get much less 'practice' at it than men - but men aren't often very good at it either and both can be abusive in expressing their anger (we do it all the time here on DU - myself included).

It'd be nice to have some education for EVERYONE on how to express anger in non-abusive / more appropriate ways. Some courses on interpersonal communication, starting in Junior High and going on into high school and college would be a good thing, I think - for men and women. It can help them in their professional and personal lives.

[Clintonista2]

32. It's the same in schools

The female teacher who gets angry is a "bitch", the male who gets angry is... nothing.

[Triana]

33. I'm not surprised...I saw an article in this months Rolling Stone about

Denis Leary and his amazing "anger". I cannot IMAGINE such an article being written about a woman's anger. Male anger is admired. Female anger - contempted.

[Nobody]

34. Double standards piss me off

Few things are as frightening as when a small person, such as a short woman like me, gets angry. Really, truly, angry. That kind of vein-popping, white-hot rage scares the piss out of men, who are bigger than we are. They want to run away as fast as they can.

The things those in power fear most, they try to suppress.

What pisses me off? double standards, people trying to assign me to an undeserved lower status, people trying to intimidate me, people negating my right to fight back whether that fight is with fists and feet or with the spoken word or with letter writing campaigns or with my vote.

Anger, properly channeled, can be the force that makes change. Ladies, behave yourselves. Don't make waves, don't above all be ANGRY. It's SO not ladylike. Don't scare the menfolks.