Let's talk about sexual harassment

[Nikia]

Have you ever been sexually harassed or witnessed another person being sexually harassed? Have you reported it to human resources or higher ups? Is it more likely to bother you if the harasser is a coworker, someone in another department, or your boss? Would you be more likely to report it depending on whether it was a coworker, someone in another department, or your boss? Do you think that the harasser has the right to know that you are uncomfortable with their behavior before you report them? Does this depend on the person's relationship at work to you? If the sexual harassment started out as consensual flirting or discussion does this change things? Does this depend on the person's relationship to you at work?

[Sadie4629]

1. I don't know if this counts

because I never considered it "sexual."

I worked at a non-profit, and one of our Board members used to come into our office and put his hands on my shoulders as I sat at my desk. It irritated the heck out of me! I found it to be demeaning. He put his hands on me, but didn't on the Executive Director, who was much younger than I. It seemed to me that it was a sign of disrespect. As I told my boss, he didn't touch her, he wouldn't touch his pastor, or Jennifer Granholm, or the pope. He touched me because he figured I didn't deserve the same respect they did. She told me I needed to get over myself.

[Nikia]

2. That's awful

Did you ever mention that to him that his touching made you uncomfortable or were you uncomfortable doing so, especially considering his status as a board member.
I think that when it is someone higher up than you (in your case much higher) it is difficult to express to that person how uncomfortable his actions make you feel.

[Sadie4629]

3. I never told him

What was especially galling to me was that I was the first runner up for the Executive Director's job. He joined the Board about six months after she had been hired, so he didn't know (at the time) that I had been considered for the job. To him, I was just the person who answered the phones.

What is really weird is that he is a retired exec from Ford. And young enough that he should have known that it is strictly hands-off-the-women!

Maybe he just thought things were different because he wasn't getting paid for what he did.

[Orrex]

7. What an asshole

How long ago was this? Not that it's proper behavior in any decade, but it's such a primitive throwback to the "businessmen and office girls" mentality that one hopes that it's a scene from an early 50's film rather than a true story of an experience in the "modern" office.

[Sadie4629]

9. It was within the last year

Yeah, I know. My DH had some guy in his office who did the same thing--and that was about 15 years ago. I thought everyone knew by this time that you keep your hands to yourself in any work setting.

Other Board members--including the women--had a habit of referring to those of us in the office as "the girls." For goodness sake! I'm 51 years old!

[Orrex]

10. I hear the same thing in my line of work

I'm in financial services, alas, which is as much of a "boys' club" as any industry, despite the actual demographics of the people working in it.

My own company, for all of its warts, is actually pretty good about this, but when I used to work the phones I would routinely hear all kinds of primitive shit.

"I'll have one of our girls fax that over to you."

"Call the client at Acme Brokerage and tell the girl who answers that the trade went through."

"Your coworker Ellen really helped me out. I'd like to give her a special thank you in person some time."

"What's the hold up on that literature request? Don't you have girls for that kind of thing?"

Why, yes sir, we've got tons of girls in little schoolgirl outfits, just chomping at the bit to make your copies for you. Why, it's a wonder we get any work done, with all of these girls running around.

Lovely.

(I'm a guy, by the way, if it isn't already obvious, but even I can spot such embarrassingly sexist stupidity from a mile off. You'd think that someone in their HR department would have reined them in by this time.)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

4. Only very, very mildly.

In British folk dance circles (the ones I move in a lot) men under 25 are a rarity, (especially men under 25 who actually know how to dance) and I occasionally have women old enough to be my grandmothers being slightly "over-friendly", but not threateningly so.

The only time anyone's ever actually made me feel uncomfortable, I asked her to dance for "La Russe" - a dance where you have 12 bars to show off how fast you can birl - and left her fairly dizzy, to highlight the difference between our ages. It's the only time I've ever deliberately danced in anything other than a friendly fashion, and I felt - and feel - guilty about it afterwards, but she has tended to keep out of my personal space since, and we're still on friendly terms.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. I was sexually harrassed by a woman who was my indirect superior

I never reported it because she was openly a lesbian and I thought nobody would have believed me. What bothered me most about it was not the sexual advances, but that she knew my then girlfriend professionally and knew it was serious relationship.

I was fairly oblivious to it at first as she had a sewer mouth that would have made Nixon blush and fairly explicit language was a staple of most conversation. She did everything from "accidently" exposing herself early on to giving me a disk of photos of her and her girlfriend and asking me to let her know what I could contribute. She didn't tell me what was on the zip disk and I almost opened it on my office computer!

Her partner creeped the hell out of me, like she was playing the role of Catherine Tramell down to the hair and wardrobe.

I quit the job about a year later for unrelated reasons, but I would find out a few years ago that an affair with her had been named as the reason for a divorce of another guy at the firm.

[noamnety]

6. never reported it

Have you ever been sexually harassed or witnessed another person being sexually harassed?
yep

Have you reported it to human resources or higher ups?
nope, was never worth losing my job or promotions over, or getting harassed worse for reporting it. http://stangoff.com/?p=523

Is it more likely to bother you if the harasser is a coworker, someone in another department, or your boss?
no difference, though of course the more you are working near that person the more it bothers you

Would you be more likely to report it depending on whether it was a coworker, someone in another department, or your boss?
no difference

Do you think that the harasser has the right to know that you are uncomfortable with their behavior before you report them?
depends on the circumstance, but I think a person has the right to ask a supervisor to deal with it if they feel uncomfortable confronting the harasser directly. If they are comfortable dealing with it directly, and if they feel it will solve the problem, that's great. It just isn't always the case. The supervisor has the ultimate responsibility to create a nonhostile work environment.

Does this depend on the person's relationship at work to you?
Of course; the definition is unwanted attention

If the sexual harassment started out as consensual flirting or discussion does this change things?
Nope, you could have screwed in the linen closet and then broken up afterwards. That still doesn't entitle a person to sexually harass you into eternity afterwards.

Does this depend on the person's relationship to you at work?
Nope.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. A guy I worked with spread false rumors about having a sexual affair with me

He was married and the father of 3. I was single. He was very friendly and jocular with me and I thought we were cool. Turns out he was only inviting me out to lunch so he could turn around and claim that we were having sexual trysts. He did proposition me but I made it clear that I did not hook up with married men and I found his suggestion offensive. I never went out to lunch with him again, but unbeknownst to me, he was continuing to tell all the guys in our department that we were an item. Complete with graphic, fictitious details. This went on for months before a female co-worker tentatively asked me if what she was hearing was true. Needless to say, I was horrified, appalled, and ashamed. And I know I'm not the only woman he made up similar tales about. I confronted him and told him to cut it out. He seemed really embarrassed and apologetic. I was also transferring to another shift and wouldn't have to deal with him so I figured it was over.

A year later, a male friend of mine from work told me that he was continuing to spread the same rumors. I asked my boss what I should do and he consulted the HR department. They said I needed to get signed affadavits from the guys he told the fake stories to. That was problematic because guys tend to stick together when one of their own is threatened. Also I knew that his wife was a stay-at-home mom and him losing his job would really hurt the family. So in the end I just let it go. It wouldn't surprise me if to this day he is still claiming he nailed me. Ick.

In thinking about your questions, I'd have to say I was less likely to report it because it was a peer, rather than a boss or subordinate. I think I was operating from a desire to be accepted and not make waves, and also because I knew enough about his personal life to know the extent to which his family would be adversely affected by him being fired. Also, and I know this is wrong, but at the time I felt my friendliness had somehow contributed to his behavior toward me. I realize now that he was a sick pathetic loser and I did nothing to contribute to it.

[jmm]

11. A few years ago at my last job

I reported someone for sexual harassment. If I had to do it over again I would've reported him sooner. I was a supervisor and he was higher up in the company than me but not really a direct superior. I let him know the first time he showed an interest in me that I don't like mixing business with pleasure but he just got more persistent. He rarely had a legitimate reason to deal with me but would make up excuses. At one point he blatantly told me that if I was "his girl" I could have preferred staff and preferred schedule which I already had for myself but I would have major input into my staffing levels. Late one Friday night while he was working and I was off he stole my phone number (he had access to it because of his position) and called me. When I answered he asked how his girl was doing. I replied that I didn't know who his girl was. We argued for about five minutes until I hung up. My next day back to work I was ready to file an official complaint but as soon as my shift began he called me to apologize and insisted it would never happen again. I didn't want to face the unprovable repercussions of taking this to HR so I foolishly believed him. I didn't hear from him for a couple of weeks but then one day after he got out of work he came to the location I was at and in front of other people started to make graphic physical comments about me. After he left I was furious and told them everything. One of them told the head of HR who refused to believe there was a problem and actually said I might like it until he mentioned the call to my cell phone. Then HR called me and I told all that he had done. I'm still convinced they wouldn't have done anything if I didn't have proof that he called my personal cell phone from a company phone while he was working. I told them I never wanted to have any contact with him again. They offered to change my schedule and position but they had already been trying to get me to do that and I had refused because they wouldn't meet my demands. He kept the same title but they were forced to alter his duties and schedule in such a way that he went from a cushy job to a more difficult position and lost about 20 % of his salary.

[NMDemDist2]

12. I had a F&B manager in a major hotel that used to harrass my cocktail waittresses

I took him to the Union and he was sent back to Texas post haste.

asshole.

[Skittles]

13. I don't report it

I just kick the shit out of them - I have found it fixes things a lot faster that way

[Nikia]

14. That's what I should have done

My husband said that none of the guys would have given me crap then.

[Warpy]

15. I've never gotten violent

but I have picked an unwelcome hand off my body with a finger and thumb as though I were picking up a piece of shitstained linen and dropped it elsewhere. The message was received. It also helped to give a hostile stare and hold it just a little longer than a glance.

I'm sure I've been disqualified for promotions more than once because I was not receptive to being hustled.

[musette_sf]

16. i have two incidents i am proud of

1. on NYC subway, rainy day, uptown Lex Ave express at rush hour, packed to the gills. holding on to pole with a bunch of other people. unidentified hand grabs my crotch hard and doesn't let go. i look at faces, no clue there (of course). so i follow the hand... to the shirt... to the jacket... to the slacks... to the shoes. i took my old-fashioned full-size umbrella with the long metal point, and jammed it into the toe box of the groper's shoe as hard as possible. hand promptly removed from crotch. VICTORY! as i was just 17 at the time, i thought i did pretty well.

2. on Broadway in front of Trinity Buildings (next to Trinity Chruch). a waste of carbon of the XX variety walks up to me and starts with "oooh mamacita, look at those titties" accompanied by the usual loud smacking noises. said XX carbon unit was about 6 inches shorter than me. i grabbed him by the shirtfront, pulled his head up so he could look at my face instead, and gave him high holy hell as to where he thought he had the right to do this, and asked him what he would think of someone who did that to his mother, his sister, and his daughter. i am sure i had a few choice profanities sprinkled in. (we're in NYC after all) i attracted a nice little gaggle, and the XX creep ran away. VICTORY!

of course both of these incidents occurred in the 1970s, so i couldn't Holla Back with my phone camera. i did as best as i could with pre-digital technology. well, the hands that grabbed the shirt of the creep had digits, so maybe i was an early adopter :-)

[Warpy]

18. XY waste of carbon, you mean

I have a stage voice that carries for miles. If I ever felt a hand on the subway, it was "TAKE YOUR HAND OFF ME YOU FUCKING PERVERT!"

Said pervert invariably removed the offending extremity and slunk away at the next stop. It was equally good for pickpockets. No one ever required physical retaliation.

[musette_sf]

19. you are right it is XY

sorry, i should have remembered Y chromosome.

i too have a stage voice that carries for miles. in that particular scenario, though, i would have ended up calling attention to only myself by saying anything. the subway car was really, really crowded, and it would have been like shouting "theatre" in a crowded fire, if you know what i mean. swift, pointed, individualized retaliation stopped the problem without a word. and the fvcking pervert getting his jollies from groping a teenage girl had to make excuses for a day if not more about his newly-acquired limp. :-)

[Iris]

17. I had a lot of men at work make inappropriate comments to me when I was in my late-teens/early 20s.

Once even in front of my MOTHER (whose office had hired me part-time in high school.)

I think if I had a daughter now, I'd teach her how to be direct in these situations. Tell the guys to back off. It's kind of the whole bullying thing - if you confront the bully, s/he usually stops.


If that wouldn't work, I'd tell her to have her dad meet the guy at his car after work! (Just kidding. I think a woman should be able to handle these things herself. But it is what my husband would do.)

[Chalco]

20. Yes

1-Job in college as hotel desk clerk. Another worker attempted to rape me. I pushed him off, told the hotel manager who proceded to sexually harrass me.

2-Worked in school system. Sexually harrassed by principal. Told no one.

Both of those events were many years ago. There were others. Royal pain.

One of the things I've enjoyed about being over 50 is that NO ONE BOTHERS ME ANYMORE. I finally feel safe.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Deleted, probably shouldn't talk about it. nt

[knitter4democracy]

22. Yup.

In college, I worked temp jobs during summers to pay for books and stuff. I was always "the girl" and such, which didn't bother me as much as one immediate superior's daily crap. I was the only female working in the entire small construction company, so there were comments and such, and the owner was an old-school chauvenist. He was over-deferential, called me "honey," stuff like that. My immediate superior was his son, who was absolutely awful and always bashed women when I was around and smiled, knowing I couldn't do much about it. Even the other guys would call him on it, it was that bad. It was so great the day his dad offered me his job, saying I was better at it than his own son (who would try to say my work was his but then couldn't answer questions about it and more). That made me smile for days.

On a semester abroad, a few of us walking back to the hotel from the convent where we'd all had dinner were chased by a couple of guys in a dump truck. I'd never been so scared in my life. No one would help us, and the guys cornered us and got out of the truck looking for us while we hid in some bushes. They didn't come far enough down the street, though, so when they got back in the truck, we ran down to the river (hotel was across the bridge). Turned out they were blocking the bridge. Just when we were about to swim in 40degree weather at night across a wide river with several channels, they left and started driving down everywhere we'd been. We ran across the bridge and slammed the doors behind us when we got to the evening meeting with the prof and the rest of the group. No one else had been chased, though they'd be harrassed. The prof made us all travel in groups with at least one guy after that. Well, that, and the next day a flasher started jerking off behind a tree when one of the other girls in our group walked by on the sidewalk. Freaked her out to say the least.

Since getting older and fatter, though, I'm mostly invisible. It's nice, I hate to say.

[noamnety]

24. "I'm mostly invisible"

That reminds me so much of a piece I heard on NPR about a guy asking people if they could have a superpower, would they rather be invisible or be abled to fly. Men generally wanted to fly. Women wanted to be invisible.

Such a screwed up thing it is, that we have to be stressed because people can see us.

[Not_Giving_Up]

23. Yes

I worked with a guy who was the top sales guy for the store. Everyone there kissed his feet, including the manager, despite his filthy mouth. I wasn't his only target, he even made inappropriate remarks to a male co-worker. We both knew that the manager would do nothing, so we took it to the district manager. She slapped him on the wrist, but it only made things worse. He would then say thing like "Well, I would tell you (insert offensive statement here), but then you'd run off to Cindy about it." We told Cindy (the DM), but nothing further was done about it. He got suspended for three days after he called a customer a bitch after she left the store, but her husband was still there and heard it. Later, they made him manager of another store.

You bet that the person should know that you are not comfortable. I lost count of the number of times I said "Don't talk to me like that." I'd report it no matter who it was. If it started off as flirting, then went way beyond that, let the harasser know that they've crossed a line. If they continue, report it. No one should have to feel degraded at their job by a person who has no ability to keep his or her mouth shut!

[FaceUpAndSing]

25. My experience was a bit different, being 16...

I'm only a junior in high school, and I've never had a job, so I've never been harassed in the workplace. But just a couple months ago I had my first street harassment experience.

I was walking home from my bus stop, which is on a rather busy road just around the corner from my house, when a couple of guys, probably from my school, drove by and the kid on the passenger seat stuck his head (or maybe entire torso) out the window and shouted a sentence that, from what I heard, kind of went like this: "I WANNA (some verb I didn't hear) YOUR PUSSY!" It took me a couple seconds to process what he said, and when I finally did they were further down the road. I was hoping the the guy who shouted it would get whacked by a branch because he was dangling so far out the window. I kind of felt like crying the rest of the way home. When I got inside I told my older brother what happened by starting with "A couple assholes..."

I decided not to dwell on it, but it still bothers me, and really didn't help much with anxiety around teenage boys I developed after being groped by some drunk guy last February. (Side note: After reporting this to a police officer who took me seriously, she (the officer) told me that this was, in Oregon, Sex Abuse in the third degree.) You see, I really haven't had any sort of sexual encounter in my entire life other than that, I've never even been kissed, (I've just decided to wait until college to even start dating so for now I can focus on getting to college) so whenever something like this happens, it's REALLY uncomfortable for me even though I'm fine with talking about sex. Specifically, before that idiot shouted that to me, I never really thought of my vagina as a sexual body part. Since that that day on the street, I almost feel like it's exposed or something when I think about it. I've felt uncomfortable walking home from the bus now, so I but on my Batman beanie hoping that combined with my thick black coat, it would be really hard to tell that I'm female from a moving car. I look in every car the drives by, while trying not to at the same time, checking to see if there is a teenage boy in the passenger seat.

It's sickening how few people these days understand common decency.

[Nikia]

26. Someone finally went to the president of the company about me being sexually harassed

From what I was told, it was comments overheard by someone else, as opposed to someone reporting what I had told them.
I was afraid to report it myself because he is my direct boss and he shares an office with me. Any time he has heard me tell anyone anything negative about him, he has treated me like crap for a while. I made my official statement to another top level supervisor who the president requested talk to me about it. I don't know what is going to happen. The things going for me is that I was recently given another significant raise by the preseident of the company and the fact that my boss isn't well respected by either the president or most of the employees. I am still scared.

[cynatnite]

27. Put up with the crap during most of my time in the Army...

The first few years of it there was little recourse for women in the military. It wasn't until the late eighties that they finally began doing something about it, but women still faced repercussions if they complained.