young turks

[seabeyond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qP_GWiplR4&feature=user

David Beckham's New underwear Ad Campaign




discuss

[lukasahero]

1. From a women's rights forum perspective

Normally I don't respond to "demands" of users telling me to discuss what I think when they have not offered their own thoughts on the subject but...

I have to say what I found most "discussion worthy" for the Women's Rights forum was the commentator's comment "No wonder he's a gay icon". As in: hey, um dude, there ARE women in the world, too. Women who, oh I don't know, might actually like to look at a sexy guy as much as you "young turks" like to look at Victoria's Secrets catalogs. Most revealing that in this guy's mind the whole world is made for only male eyes while knowing full well that he would be heaping all praise on a female model in the same pose.

Personally, I prefer my men a little more discreet in their displays but I don't see David Beckham as particularly exploited in this ad campaign and, as they say, if you can't beat 'em, might as well join 'em.

[seabeyond]

2. i had listened to him talk spitzer and say sorry wives, girlfriends, we like em young

shrugs, acting all cutsey.... we just do, like i know you want me to apologize for it, but us guys, well, as bad as we are, we like em young. when i saw that, it was like asshole, like everyone doesnt like youth.

now look at this dude. who would not like hard and hot and young.

guys act like us women are fantasizing about a bunch of old fart or dudes out of shape (gasp, llike the young turk dude). and they are unique in wanting young and pretty.

so yes to your point on that.

but another point is..... males tell women we are suppose to be ok with seeing like, the girls gone wild commercial all the friggin time on comedy channel... yet.... this wasnt on but a handful of seconds before this dude was uncomfortable saying take it off, enough. and showing too much. too much for a male to present himself sexually, .... he cant handle it. you can tell how uncomfortable he is with it. but women are suppose to suck it up.


Most revealing that in this guy's mind the whole world is made for only male eyes while knowing full well that he would be heaping all praise on a female model in the same pose.

yes

[Iris]

3. The fat young turk is just trying to hide his gayness.

He probably insists on a "gay seat" between him and any male friends he goes to a movie with.

on edit: Not that I have anything against gay guys! Most of the ones I know wouldn't want the fat young turk, that's for sure.

[seabeyond]

4. i was telling my father how he wasnt really a bigot against gays

and he isnt. he will love anyone, not judge them, accept them. he is also a manly man.... anyway... he says as long as they dont touch me...

i said wha... what.... all you men have to throw that in

this guy did too

men are soooooo damn afraid.

[Iris]

5. I just expect liberal men to be more enlightened.

I'm often disappointed.

[seabeyond]

6. look at the board, look at our men. not when it comes to their "masculinity"

or their perceived, conditioned idea of masculinity. i think that is my point and what i have been listening to and watching the last month. they are conditioned to say things to prove they are male. things they dont even mean or think, but are programmed by their fellow males.

turk is ranting about the rapes in military. the outrages and he is sooo right on. speaking exactly how anyone, and especially the male needs to shout out about this. a bunch of women moaning and complaining will get zip done. males have a job here. women need males here. and he is right on. i couldn't praise the man more for his outrage

but he does not see how he feeds into this when he has the other shit on his show and disses the women. he goes into one of the males that dehumanize the female. not nearly the same level of rape, but still, it is.

i am finding it interesting here and now, .... all the posts on all the child porn, rapes, pedophiles and everything else on gd, .... and no one is putting it together.

not tough shit to figure out.

[Iris]

7. Some of us are putting it together.

But there always seems to be a collective shout down when anyone ventures an opinion that opposes the idea of male sexual imperative.

[seabeyond]

9. so much so, i started being messed up on ALL MALES. that is what i was hearing

all the time with this behavior. ALL MALES. but... my husband wasn't/isn't that. oh they say, no no, he means it, just not gonna say it to you. so i started with him and for a couple weeks we walked thru so much as it came up here and there. he gave me the feedback. much of it was.... in high school. two decades ago. so you outgrow it i ask. yahhhhhhh, he says.

then i started talking to other males that were not a part of the "group", asking, listening. males all around me that know me well. away from this board.

what i have really come out with is a "herd" here on du and where ever they can go to shout boobie, need pictures or any of the other reoccurring adolescent phrase used over and over and over to keep this impression fed. and shout down. never truly look at the issue. run and hide.

[Iris]

11. well, my husband is a bigger feminist than I am

I probably wouldn't be married if that were not the case. His mom raised him to be an individual and that has made a huge difference.

[seabeyond]

12. and my father and two brothers (as much as i love them) are pig males, lol

i wouldnt marry for a lot of years cause i wouldnt allow it in my life. my husband, in 14 yrs has not once shown that. he tells me... i am not THAT male. lol.

you know what it has done, this last month listening to these males and then looking at hubby. (my hubby is so happy and thanks all these guys). it has made me look at him again, appreciate him all the more, all over, and we are having so much fun, laughing, loving, playing. it has totally re energized me in my relationship. so really the hugest of thank you's to them

the reason i spend so much time, i have two boys. in texas. and they hear so much of this shit. not example dad gives to them and certainly is not what i have in the home. so they get such good examples and then what they get from the kids at school. we are working it all out.... a lot.

[seabeyond]

13. hey iris....

just thanks for talking to me about this. i have a much better handle on it than i did a couple weeks ago. i was so sad. i appreciate you.

[Iris]

14. thanks! I get really disheartened as well.

And sadly, DU is one of the SAFER places to be on the internet. Usually I just withdraw, pull my head in like a turtle, so it's been nice having this exchange with you!

Good luck with your sons! How old are they? Some of this stuff - with girls and boys - just has to get worked out. It's not pretty but there's still hope. At least you've given them another way of thinking that they can return to at anytime they choose.

[Iris]

8. but then I sees a post like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3120812

and it kind of makes up for some of the other stuff.

[seabeyond]

10. just control and dominance from another perspective. all the same. n/t